[OtherAggie]

Does anyone know whether a layer of polymer sealant would interfere with the Zymol "bonding process" touted on their website?? Has anyone tried this? Is the Carbon wax anything special, compared to other carnuabas?

My dad's garage has a hefty and relatively unused supply of Zymol HD and Carbon wax, so I thought I'd go that route, all other things being equal.

Any other suggestions? The car is Monaco blue, and I live in a hot climate with lots of UV.

Looking for a bit more shine & longevity than just the Zymol wax. I love the look & smell of Zymol's products, but I'm open to other possibilities, as long as they're pretty easy. I am totally new at this.

Hope to keep the total product expenditures around $150 for wash/clay/polish/sealant/wax.

Thanks in advance!!

[TRICKE90]

I have used Carbon wax over Menzerna fmj and Zaino z2. With good results. It doesn't seem to last very long maybe 2 weeks. I usually use 2 or 3 layers after letting the sealant cure for at least 12 hours.

[L~R~G nor cal]

Zymol HD is just a glaze with fillers. They say it is used to prep the surface for wax, but the chemical make-up is similar to a glaze and not a paint cleaner. Dont get me wrong, it is a great product and I would still use it, for it will make the paint "pop" that extra bit. But in no way will it "clean" the paint.

My recommendations for the products you are looking for goes as follows:

Wash: CG Citrus Wash and Gloss or CG Citrus Wash and Clear
Clay: CG Blue Light Clay or CG Green Clay
Polish: Cant give you pointers, for if you are looking at correcting your paint you would have to factor in many variables to determine the best route
Sealant: CG JetSeal 109
Wax: CG 5050 Concourse Wax

CG=Chemical Guys

I am not sure how much all of this will cost, but for the price the products I have listed are hard to beat. If you are not going to correct your paint and are just looking for a glaze that will fill in some of your swirls, Zymol HD is a good option. I would just wash, clay, Zymol HD, seal, and wax in that order.

Hope this helps,

Jared

[OtherAggie]

Thanks for the tips, guys! Jared, I'm taking your advice and ordering the CG products. There's an 'Ultimate and Total Shine' kit on the website that seems to have everything you mentioned and more for $150 or so.

http://www.chemicalguys.com/CARE_CARE_KIT_p/hol_102.htm

It has a 'ClayBLOCK System' instead of the blue or green clay. I think I will call and see if they'll substitute for me.

I would like to correct my paint rather than cover up its damage. What sorts of things factor into a decision about polish?

Taking some guesses... The car is 9 mo old, and its paint is smooth to the touch. There are many swirl marks, but they are very very light - at first I thought there weren't any, had to look close in bright sunlight.

I don't have a polisher, but can get one. It looks like the Porter Cable is a must-have.

The CG Ultra-Fine polish might be what I need... thoughts, anyone?? Thanks again Jared and TRICKE90!!

[picus]

HD can interfere with some sealants - like LRG said it's pretty much a straight up glaze. If you're set on sealing I'd just seal and then if you get a lark, top with Carbon. If you want to use the HD I'd just go HD/Carbon, and re-apply as often as needed (which will likely be every 3-4 weeks).

FWIW, I generally find the simplest application of LSP is usually the best, I understand a lot of folks like sealant/wax, but if you're re-applying the wax enough that the layer is fresh you're kind of defeating the purpose of the sealant anyway.

Originally Posted by OtherAggie

Thanks for the tips, guys! Jared, I'm taking your advice and ordering the CG products. There's an 'Ultimate and Total Shine' kit on the website that seems to have everything you mentioned and more for $150 or so.

http://www.chemicalguys.com/CARE_CARE_KIT_p/hol_102.htm

It has a 'ClayBLOCK System' instead of the blue or green clay. I think I will call and see if they'll substitute for me.

I would like to correct my paint rather than cover up its damage. What sorts of things factor into a decision about polish?

Taking some guesses... The car is 9 mo old, and its paint is smooth to the touch. There are many swirl marks, but they are very very light - at first I thought there weren't any, had to look close in bright sunlight.

I don't have a polisher, but can get one. It looks like the Porter Cable is a must-have.

The CG Ultra-Fine polish might be what I need... thoughts, anyone?? Thanks again Jared and TRICKE90!!

Smart to correct rather than cover. Which polishes you use depends on the car, the machine, and the severity of the marring. It's a Monaco e90/e92 I assume? with a PC you'll probably need to go with something like Menzerna SIP/cutting pad then 106ff/polishing or finishing pad (or a similar line of products, I just like the menz stuff on bmws). Your best bet to learn how to use it is read, read, read. Detailed Image has a great how too, and there are lots of youtube vids on how to use the PC.

[OtherAggie]

Thanks Picus!! I looked into the Menzerna stuff and it's a little confusing for the noob. Or at least, for an Aggie that's also a noob. Do I really need to do anything more than the 106ff? What's the difference between SIP and IP? Where does the all-in-one product fit in??

The car - an e90 - is about a year old, many very fine swirl marks, 3 lightly scratched areas, but otherwise the paint seems to be in good condition. It's pollen season here in the desert southwest, in case the yellow dust didn't give that away...

Tried to get pics of the swirl marks, but they didn't show up very well. Here are the scuffs & scratches...

[picus]

Here's the general break down of Meznerna products; they have a lot and they change kind of often, so this isn't a full listing, just popular ones.

IP = Intensive Polish = their bread and butter medium cut compound. It uses larger abrasives than FPII/SIP/106ff/8rd, it cuts pretty quickly and clears/dusts as it breaks down.

FPII = Final Polish II = a finishing polish with a little cut. It uses larger abrasives than SIP/106ff/8rd, but less of them then IP.

SIP = Super Intensive Polish = another medium cut that uses more smaller abrasives, cuts more slowly, and normally finishes down better than IP but not as well as FPII (in some cases, this is not always true). It is more oily and will work longer.

106ff = PO106FF = another light cut/finishing polish with the same abrasives as SIP, but less. This normally finishes super clean, it's oil like SIP (unlike IP and FPII).

8rd - PO8RD = a very fine finishing polish with almost no cut.

Assuming you're using a PC I'd personally recommend SIP and 106ff or IP and 106ff. You MAY not need more than 106ff for cutting, but it's good to have a medium cut around in case you do.

The all-in-one is a chemical cleaner/base sealant, it comes after compounding. So generally the process looks like this: wash > clay > compound as needed (either with SIP or 106ff or both) > AIO > Sealant > wax if desired.

Judging by the scuffs I would conservatively say you will want SIP and 106ff, a few cutting and a few finishing/polishing pads.

[L~R~G nor cal]

^
picus you hit the nail on the head. I was thinking the same process with SIP and 106ff.

I just wanted to add one idea if I may.

I noticed that OtherAggie was talking about the pollen and dust accumulation. This is a huge problem for all when its this time of season. It especially sucks when you are a detail freak and wash your car once or twice a week for right when your car sees the light of day, you already have pollen and dust covering your newly washed car. Keep in mind that whenever you wash, polish, or wax your car; you car creating friction. Just like when you were a kid and you would ride down a slide, later when you would touch metal you would get a shock because of the charge you created by friction. Basically you are doing the same thing when you are applying products to your car therefore your car is sitting with a charge attracting airborne contaminates such as dust and pollen.

To help avoid and limit pollen and dust build-up on your car I always end with a anti-static product. With how much I go though my anti-static product, I stick with the cheap stuff. CG Speed Wipe is my product of choice, but FK425 is the best I have used, but is more $$.

So in conclusion I would like to recommend a anti-static product listed above to prolong your freshly detailed car. I find that new detailer's are not aware of this, so I thought I would offer a tip.

Hope this helps,

Jared

[OtherAggie]

Quick and informative!! You guys really know your stuff. OK, I'm ordering Menzerna SIP, 106ff, and AIO.

Jared, thanks for the pollen spray tip - we get pollen spring and fall here, so that's pretty valuable info. I think I get some in my CG kit. If not, I'll order it.

Also, some of the YouTube videos are absolutely awesome!! Thank you picus for that as well!

One more question, then hopefully the next post will be my before/after. Is there a newbie-simple test for whether the polish cut is adequate or not? Do you guys think I should start with SIP no matter what, or do I just do the scuffs with SIP then the whole thing with 106ff?

[picus]

You want to start with the lightest possible combo you think will work when cutting. So when you start, grab 106ff and a white pad and do a small section under halogens. If it works, you're golden; continue (you'll prob need sip for the scuffs, but that's another issue). If not, move up to 106ff/orange pad (or SIP on a white, but imo 106ff/orange still has less cut than SIP/white), if that doesn't cut it, you're probably going to need SIP/orange, then follow with 106ff/white.

Of course this all depends on how much you want to remove. For example, say a hood has light swirls; odds are 106ff/white or orange will clean 90% of them up and leave a few deeper marks behind. If you don't mind those you can polish the whole car with that combo and be cool. See what I am saying? Just remember, on your paint odds are with SIP/orange (or even possibly 106/orange), you may need to follow with 106/white to get a "clean" finish (no haze). It's a fluid process, and practice will really help you a lot. Don't freak if you get some haze or no results the first couple passes, that's usually how it goes with the PC.

A few things to remember with the PC. Slow passes, small area, medium pressure, and remember to fully break down whatever polish you're using. A PC won't heat/cut nearly as fast as a rotary, so you really need to give it time to work. The most common mistake I see the first time someone uses one is moving the PC too fast and expecting results. Good luck!

[Raz335]

Wow Picus, great advice and writeup. I love how helpful everyone is in the detailing community

Quick question: I read that 4" pads cut faster than 5.5" or 6.5" pads on a PC. Is this true, and would it make more sense to polish with only 4" pads when using a PC?

[ScheerSpeed]

Originally Posted by Raz335

Wow Picus, great advice and writeup. I love how helpful everyone is in the detailing community

Quick question: I read that 4" pads cut faster than 5.5" or 6.5" pads on a PC. Is this true, and would it make more sense to polish with only 4" pads when using a PC?

would only make sense because the 4" pads cause less friction, thus not bogging down the PC motor as much.

[picus]

4" pads do cut more quickly w/the pc. The heat and pressure are concentrated in a smaller area. I personally don't use 4" pads unless I am spot polishing (in small areas). You should get plenty of cut with 6" pads on a 5 or 5.5" bp (which is a more standard setup).

[FMINUS]

Z*mol HD was rumored to be first a reformulation of Megs #3, their wash was simply a scented liquid ivory soap.

Since then its a little different. The newer ZHD/ZHDP supposedly cleans the paint so that no silicone/oils will prohibit the wax from curing/bonding correctly onto the surface. i.e, menzerna polishes will prohibit the wax from bonding correctly unless if a IPA/HDC/sealant/glaze is sandwiched in between.

This is just what Zymol has communicated to me, whether or not its true, well I guess you have to test it out for yourself!

I am not a fan of Cleaner fluids/precleansers, and is still a non believer. Even though I am a big fan of SV and Z waxes, I just cant buy into it.

My Swissvax Divine is on its way and I will do a test w CF and one without.

Also a Z*mol Vintage w HDC and one without and see what happens.

[Raz335]

Originally Posted by FMINUS

Z*mol HD was rumored to be first a reformulation of Megs #3, their wash was simply a scented liquid ivory soap.

Since then its a little different. The newer ZHD/ZHDP supposedly cleans the paint so that no silicone/oils will prohibit the wax from curing/bonding correctly onto the surface. i.e, menzerna polishes will prohibit the wax from bonding correctly unless if a IPA/HDC/sealant/glaze is sandwiched in between.

This is just what Zymol has communicated to me, whether or not its true, well I guess you have to test it out for yourself!

I am not a fan of Cleaner fluids/precleansers, and is still a non believer. Even though I am a big fan of SV and Z waxes, I just cant buy into it.

My Swissvax Divine is on its way and I will do a test w CF and one without.

Also a Z*mol Vintage w HDC and one without and see what happens.

Nice, I'm interested to see the difference that HDC makes. Never tried a precleaner before, but I'm tempted to.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by picus

You want to start with the lightest possible combo you think will work when cutting. So when you start, grab 106ff and a white pad and do a small section under halogens. If it works, you're golden; continue (you'll prob need sip for the scuffs, but that's another issue). If not, move up to 106ff/orange pad (or SIP on a white, but imo 106ff/orange still has less cut than SIP/white), if that doesn't cut it, you're probably going to need SIP/orange, then follow with 106ff/white.

Of course this all depends on how much you want to remove. For example, say a hood has light swirls; odds are 106ff/white or orange will clean 90% of them up and leave a few deeper marks behind. If you don't mind those you can polish the whole car with that combo and be cool. See what I am saying? Just remember, on your paint odds are with SIP/orange (or even possibly 106/orange), you may need to follow with 106/white to get a "clean" finish (no haze). It's a fluid process, and practice will really help you a lot. Don't freak if you get some haze or no results the first couple passes, that's usually how it goes with the PC.

A few things to remember with the PC. Slow passes, small area, medium pressure, and remember to fully break down whatever polish you're using. A PC won't heat/cut nearly as fast as a rotary, so you really need to give it time to work. The most common mistake I see the first time someone uses one is moving the PC too fast and expecting results. Good luck!

I just ordered IP and FPII, I only have white and orange pads. I was thinking about doing IP/orange pad, then FPII/white pad. . . what do you think? Also, another major question I had was about the PC's speed/rpm setting. When polishing, should you run the PC at a higher or lower speed? And how bout when using the PC and a white pad to apply wax?

Also, why is it that when I quick detail my hood after polishing and waxing, it leaves these weird hazing/ghosting marks that are almost impossible to remove with just more quick detailer?

[Neema]

and man, my hands were sore and tender the next day after hours of my PC use . . .

[asdflkijd]

I use zymol.