[Cascade253]

I've looked around and can't seem to find an answer, but does anyone know what durometer rating the whiteline rear subframe bushings are? I'm looking at either these, powerflex black, or akg black both of which are 95A. The whitelines cost significantly less ($180 and $100) for the four needed.

My car is a DD and will never see a track, maybe autox, but mostly just twisty roads so I'm not looking to go with the solid mounts and the associated pain of installing them from what I've read.

[r4dr]

I would give Whiteline a call but I assume it's within the same ballpark as the other products aimed at "street use."

Have you looked at the Whiteline bushing inserts? They're even cheaper ($50 or so MSRP, you can probably get it cheaper from vendors) and from what I've read about them, will tighten it up enough for DD purposes.

Here's a link: http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_...=KDT918&sq=834

[titium]

I have the nolethane ones ( same as whiteline just a different colour). no complaints car is a daily drive.

huge improvement over the stock bushes.

wouldn't bother with the inserts heard of a few people doing them only to rip them out and do it properly later down the track.

[feuer]

I have inserts and track since 2010. Installed the inserts in 2013. No regrets. No complaints. They do what they are designed to do. I run very tight clearance wheels. 18x10 et25 with 275/35. It was rubbing in turns when car leans sideways. Not with the inserts. So they work.

[The Nightman]

x2 on the inserts. Excellent bang for your buck and significantly easier to install. Perfect for a DD.

[Cascade253]

I guess I need to read up more on the inserts. Even though they go into the OEM bushings, they firm them up enough to eliminate most of the flex?

[davidwarren]

I have the white line rsb. Hey are a huge improvement.

[asrautox]

I run solid aluminum. NVH is no different than stock. Rear is PLANTED!

[Cascade253]

Originally Posted by asrautox

I run solid aluminum. NVH is no different than stock. Rear is PLANTED!

Did you install them yourself? From what I've read the installing the solid aluminum ones require using a press, not something I have and would probably have to remove the subframe for and don't want to pay a shop to do it.

For this reason I'm looking primarily at the whiteline or akg bushings since they are both two piece and should be a bit easier to install than the powerflex, assuming I would be able to get the stock bushings out. But for $50 bucks and 1.5 hrs of work, the inserts are sounding pretty tempting.

[Phil325i]

Looking at Whiteline's install instructions, it appears that fitting these inserts must increase the car's ride height as the subframe mounts no longer fit flush to the underbody, because the insert is sandwiched between. Anyone confirm..?

[feuer]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Looking at Whiteline's install instructions, it appears that fitting these inserts must increase the car's ride height as the subframe mounts no longer fit flush to the underbody, because the insert is sandwiched between. Anyone confirm..?

Incorrect. Car sits on its springs. This has been discussed to death.

[Phil325i]

Originally Posted by feuer

Incorrect. Car sits on its springs. This has been discussed to death.

Of course the car sits on its springs, but if you stick a wedge in between the subframe in which the spring is mounted and the body of the car, the body will rise and be higher and the gap between tyre and wheelarch (the ride height) will increase.

[asrautox]

Originally Posted by Cascade253

Did you install them yourself? From what I've read the installing the solid aluminum ones require using a press, not something I have and would probably have to remove the subframe for and don't want to pay a shop to do it.

For this reason I'm looking primarily at the whiteline or akg bushings since they are both two piece and should be a bit easier to install than the powerflex, assuming I would be able to get the stock bushings out. But for $50 bucks and 1.5 hrs of work, the inserts are sounding pretty tempting.

I didn't. No way I'm doing that in my single-car garage. IMO, if you're needing to do it yourself, just do the inserts, otherwise hire a shop and do the solids.

[Cascade253]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Of course the car sits on its springs, but if you stick a wedge in between the subframe in which the spring is mounted and the body of the car, the body will rise and be higher and the gap between tyre and wheelarch (the ride height) will increase.

The spring is not mounted on the subframe but on to the arm connected to the subframe which is free to rotate with respect to the subframe. If the subframe is lower, the arms with the springs will rotate upwards. No change in ride height will be produced. I have seen this discussed to death and I might finally be the one to draw up a quick diagram to share, could model it also....

[JValenzSD]

I have the solid aluminum subframe bushings and installed them myself. It wasn't hard at all. No need for a press. I used the subframe bushing tool from Ebay and an impact wrench. Bushings were pressed with the subframe intact and lowered.

Each bushing took less than a minute to remove, and then another to install. I did this with a full complete lsd pumkin install, solid differential bushing install, M3 control arms and guide rods, and Eibach M3 sway bars since the rear was coming down, this is the best opportunity to install them.

NVH is not even noticeable. I do love how the rear feels planted going WOT, corner entrance, mid corner, and exiting. It's a whole new car. I just wished I've done it sooner. I would just go solid instead of inserts since you're going to be under there anyway, might as well do the job right the first time IMHO.

If you can't afford the tool yourself, HP Autosport rents them for under a hundred. But book in advance as they are rented fairly often.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Of course the car sits on its springs, but if you stick a wedge in between the subframe in which the spring is mounted and the body of the car, the body will rise and be higher and the gap between tyre and wheelarch (the ride height) will increase.

Wrong! The spring is between the chassis and the lower control arm and act as laverage. If you space out the subframe from the chassis you will actually end up with lower ride height. Not higher. Period. These inserts do neither.

Originally Posted by Cascade253

The spring is not mounted on the subframe but on to the arm connected to the subframe which is free to rotate with respect to the subframe. If the subframe is lower, the arms with the springs will rotate upwards. No change in ride height will be produced. I have seen this discussed to death and I might finally be the one to draw up a quick diagram to share, could model it also....

Correct! Please proceed with the diagram. Will make things a lot easier

[E90ALLMANUAL]

I'm very happy with the inserts. The rear no longer tries to keep up with the front of the car.

[Cascade253]

DISCLAIMER: The suspension modeled is not recreated from exact measurements taken from the actual suspension. This is a simplified model in which the components are attached in a representative manner.

As seen ride height will decrease very slightly if the subframe is moved down, the amount is dependent on the distance ratio on the LCA between the mounting point of the knuckle and spring/shock and where the LCA attaches to the subframe to the spring/shock.

I could go out and take actual length measurements, but really there's no point. And back to topic, haha.

[R.G.]

Is anyone aware if these are able to be fitted if M3 bushings have already been installed?

[k335d]

Originally Posted by Cascade253

I've looked around and can't seem to find an answer, but does anyone know what durometer rating the whiteline rear subframe bushings are? I'm looking at either these, powerflex black, or akg black both of which are 95A. The whitelines cost significantly less ($180 and $100) for the four needed.

My car is a DD and will never see a track, maybe autox, but mostly just twisty roads so I'm not looking to go with the solid mounts and the associated pain of installing them from what I've read.

I sent you a pm. If you want to feel the difference for yourself i have the Turner motorsport delrin and you are more then welcome to come take my car for a ride if you don't mine the 2 hour ride up across the border.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by R.G.

Is anyone aware if these are able to be fitted if M3 bushings have already been installed?

If you are asking about inserts then no as m3 bushings have no cavities.

[mweisdorfer]

The way it was explained to me by the folks at ECS tuning was that if you track the car, then get a product like white line or others like this. If you don't intend to track the car but want to have better cornering then the M3 subframe bushings are your best bet. White line would be too stiff for a daily driver.

If you just want to get your car back to stock, then get Lemforder bushings; they are at a fraction of the cost of OEM and Lemforder is the OEM provider.