[Kolyan2k]

Most likely no one can help since even state senator's office was nearly useless, but doesnt hurt to ask. Question is about pension.

[Banana Hammock]

Don't be silly; wrap your willy.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by snack attack

Don't be silly; wrap your willy.

I dont follow

[TheHouseWon]

It would help if we knew the question

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by TheHouseWon

It would help if we knew the question

It's a complected situation regarding pension and supplementary benefits. Only a person who's dealing with SSA can answer.

Basically my father is an old disabled (physically and mentally) man, SSA is asking him to provide foreign documents that even I can't get without huge pain in the ass and maybe 1-2 years of waiting. They left him dry on $200 per month without giving a single fuck.

Not a single person I contacted was able to assist...Kind of screwed for life situation as they told me in state senators office that deals with elder health care and SSA issues....

[Ross61]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

It's a complected situation regarding pension and supplementary benefits. Only a person who's dealing with SSA can answer.

Basically my father is an old disabled (physically and mentally) man, SSA is asking him to provide foreign documents that even I can't get without huge pain in the ass and maybe 1-2 years of waiting. They left him dry on $200 per month without giving a single fuck.

Not a single person I contacted was able to assist...Kind of screwed for life situation as they told me in state senators office that deals with elder health care and SSA issues....

How long has your father been in the states/a citizen?

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Ross61

How long has your father been in the states/a citizen?

25 years in states, all legally, got citizenship maybe only 10 years ago since he never applied before. He's 78 now and never asked for any benefits until 77. SSA said until you get benefits from foreign native government, you'll not get anything from them. So they completely removed his supplementary to $0 and reduced his $350 per month pension to $200

[nyalpine90]

why would SSA ask for foreign documents when he is already a legal citizen?
what kind of documents?

[Maynard]

First step would be to check with the largest elder-support service in your area (you are in Boston? should be well-developed) - find out who does their legal advice. Sometimes these things can be resolved without formal litigation, if you know the regs. If not, use a legal directory (or similar) to find somebody local who does this for a living. I know NYC has some, but DK names. I work with Veterans, usually they are dealing w/ VBA, but I have seen some get good results on SSD or SSA claims via this approach. Sometimes it is as straightforward as getting a second opinion that addresses duration (i.e. I've had patients need to get a statement that said explicitly 'this was present in 19xx, as evidenced by [evidence, reports, etc.]'). These are not always needing formal 'proof' beyond a formal diagnosis or provider statement, but they seldom tell you this, and send the patients on a wild goose chase for 40-year old documents (not surprisingly, the US Govt is not much better than the third world about retaining anything that wasn't computerized).

[shadow191]

Look up the Pension Action Center, they're at UMass and may be able to help. They primarily deal with private pension matters but may be able to help with SSA. I deal with pensions and we've been on the receiving end of their letters before, they're very thorough.

And SSA is allowed to offset the benefit with a pension due from a foreign country. So even if he proves the foreign benefit, it doesn't mean he'll get more social security. It just means he could collect from the other benefit. If he can prove he doesn't get anything from them, they may readjust his SS benefit.

As others have said, SSA has some of the worst record keeping I've seen, even for a gov't entity.

[Fundguy1]

Which country? Depending on the country someone may know how to procure the documents more rapidly.

[C1Boston]

I'm not an attorney but worked for a Disability Firm for about 2 years. I can attempt to help you. Are these foreign docs due to property ownage outside the country? 9/10 times that is the reason, they would never ask him to prove citizenship of any other country if he is a legal US citizen. Also, SSDI (work credits) and SSI are two completely different things, if he is getting SSI then they certainly can use ANY foreign benefits against him. Also, if he has the work credits he SHOULD be drawing retirement funds and not "Disability" so this tells me maybe he did not have the work credits along with the fact that he is getting $200/month which somebody who has the work credits would NEVER receive, that is too low of a number and usually indicates SSI.


PM me, I can attempt to give you a hand. Also, these ppl who work these Disability offices are the MOST INCOMPETENT PPL ON THE PLANET. They dont give a flying a fk about anyone as they deal with millions of claims daily along with millions of older ppl calling to check the status of their claim every other day.

P.S. Boston has pretty good elder care services and is pretty good at taking care of the needy, the firm I worked for is right across the street from government center off the Financial District.

[Kolyan2k]

Thanks. Didn't think I would get replies on this topic.....

Here is who I contacted already in past 8 month:

1. Local family services (great place, but they were not able to help with SSA)
2. Local large elder care services provider, Baybath (no help)
3. Elder abuse/neglect hot line (no help)
4. Local attorney for SSA cases currently has his case (Same attorney that elder care services use, so far no help, started case here 8 month ago)
5. I personally have been dealing with this for almost a year now and been to local SSA office many times
6. Senator Ed Markey's office who specifically deals with elder health and SSA (zero help, 3 month into my case with them all I got was TOO BAD....and 1 phone call from SSA office)
7. Also spoke with Boston SSA attorney (Was told I MUST use local SSA law office, and also told me SSA can easily select a person who they dont like and make it a nightmare for him)

Now why this is happening and what they are requesting:

Dad didnt manage his finances properly, was self-employed, got stoke, became disabled and broke. I got him $880 in SSA benefits ($350 pension and $530 in low-income supplementary benefits)

About 3 month later he broke some rules for complying with SSA (he has dementia), they removed all his benefits. I was able to prove that it was a mistake etc, I provided them with all papers from the doctors stating that he is disabled has dementia etc. Everything seemed to go well.

Then about 2-3 month later just when I though he is getting everything back, they sent him a letter stating that he MUST apply for benefits in his country of birth Russia, and until thats done he will not get anything.


And now to this last issue:

There is a US law in place. If you came to USA after Feb 1992 (and he came in Sept 1992), you carry a dual citizenship and qualify for pension in Russia
which MUST be subtracted from your US benefits.
Sounds somewhat fair right? Currently Russian pension is about $100-150 per month. He used to get $350 in USA, minus Russian pension, and thats what he gets right now that $200 per month. So what happened to his low-income supplementary benefits, why did they remove another $530? It makes no sense to me and SSA office is not able to address this either.

Now he does not get any pension in Russia, he does not have Russian passport, if fact, he does not carry a single Russian document aside from an expired 15 years ago travel document. SSA said they dont care, must go and get your citizenship reinstated, collect all proper documents, and apply for Russian pension. After that pension is received, you will be able to apply for more benefits from SSA. I told them that its extremely long process (1-2 years) and my father is sick, has dementia, can barely walk after the stroke, does not have a car, and no money. Again.....they dont care....
I filled out an application for Russian Pension/Benefits, received a rejection letter due to lack of proper documents. SSA office said lack of documents is not a good enough reason and I MUST re-apply 2nd time in order to move this case forward. (I found all this out yesterday, Senator's office called SSA, and SSA called me back for the 1st time in nearly a year)

I am planning to re-apply again, go to SSA, provide proof, this could at least move the case forward (they give you 6 month to get a VALID rejection letter or the actual cash benefits verification). Also planning to ask yet again about relationship of his Russian pension to US low-income benefits.

PS. Its a pretty known case in local SSA office, 2 security guards run to the doors when I enter my dads SSN at walk-in ticket screen. I once called them to discuss the case, some very rude person answered the phone, said he is well aware of the case, and my dad will never get anything from them.....

[C1Boston]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Thanks. Didn't think I would get replies on this topic.....

Here is who I contacted already in past 8 month:

1. Local family services (great place, but they were not able to help with SSA)
2. Local large elder care services provider, Baybath (no help)
3. Elder abuse/neglect hot line (no help)
4. Local attorney for SSA cases currently has his case (Same attorney that elder care services use, so far no help, started case here 8 month ago)
5. I personally have been dealing with this for almost a year now and been to local SSA office many times
6. Senator Ed Markey's office who specifically deals with elder health and SSA (zero help, 3 month into my case with them all I got was TOO BAD....and 1 phone call from SSA office)
7. Also spoke with Boston SSA attorney (Was told I MUST use local SSA law office, and also told me SSA can easily select a person who they dont like and make it a nightmare for him)

Now why this is happening and what they are requesting:

Dad didnt manage his finances properly, was self-employed, got stoke, became disabled and broke. I got him $880 in SSA benefits ($350 pension and $530 in low-income supplementary benefits)

About 3 month later he broke some rules for complying with SSA (he has dementia), they removed all his benefits. I was able to prove that it was a mistake etc, I provided them with all papers from the doctors stating that he is disabled has dementia etc. Everything seemed to go well.

Then about 2-3 month later just when I though he is getting everything back, they sent him a letter stating that he MUST apply for benefits in his country of birth Russia, and until thats done he will not get anything.


And now to this last issue:

There is a US law in place. If you came to USA after Feb 1992 (and he came in Sept 1992), you carry a dual citizenship and qualify for pension in Russia
which MUST be subtracted from your US benefits.
Sounds somewhat fair right? Currently Russian pension is about $100-150 per month. He used to get $350 in USA, minus Russian pension, and thats what he gets right now that $200 per month. So what happened to his low-income supplementary benefits, why did they remove another $530? It makes no sense to me and SSA office is not able to address this either.

Now he does not get any pension in Russia, he does not have Russian passport, if fact, he does not carry a single Russian document aside from an expired 15 years ago travel document. SSA said they dont care, must go and get your citizenship reinstated, collect all proper documents, and apply for Russian pension. After that pension is received, you will be able to apply for more benefits from SSA. I told them that its extremely long process (1-2 years) and my father is sick, has dementia, can barely walk after the stroke, does not have a car, and no money. Again.....they dont care....
I filled out an application for Russian Pension/Benefits, received a rejection letter due to lack of proper documents. SSA office said lack of documents is not a good enough reason and I MUST re-apply 2nd time in order to move this case forward. (I found all this out yesterday, Senator's office called SSA, and SSA called me back for the 1st time in nearly a year)

I am planning to re-apply again, go to SSA, provide proof, this could at least move the case forward (they give you 6 month to get a VALID rejection letter or the actual cash benefits verification). Also planning to ask yet again about relationship of his Russian pension to US low-income benefits.

PS. Its a pretty known case in local SSA office, 2 security guards run to the doors when I enter my dads SSN at walk-in ticket screen. I once called them to discuss the case, some very rude person answered the phone, said he is well aware of the case, and my dad will never get anything from them.....

Your senators office is the only entity aside from SSA who can really do anything about this. I had clients call their Senators here in Mass who have been successful but very few of them. I would ask for a supervisor and not settle for the people who regularly answer the phones or try to visit your senators office IN PERSON.

EXACTLY what documents are they requiring from Russia? Are you able to get any letter from the Russian government which indicates that he has no funds to draw from in Russia? Do they mention any specific name of a form or form code? Also do not reapply until they officially deny the claim as the new claim will NEVER get processed by them and sometimes they will not even call or inform you of that. If he is receiving 200/month they will not process the new claim either as he is already in payment. I'm sorry your relative has to deal with this but sadly situations like these are common in this system, it has personnel who can never lose their government job and people who simply lose empathy after doing this every day for a living.

BTW: Why did they stop his benefits? What rules did the state say he violated? The only way to violate SSA's rules is if you go back to work and fail to mention it; which typically means if you try to collect a paycheck via gainful employment and cash your SSA/Disability. Even if he went back to work, if he worked a month and stopped working they would classify this as a "failed attempt to work" so its mind boggling as to why they say he "violated" any terms. Not to mention if his medical records show that he has dementia they would reinstate his benefits right away or not cancel them at all. Usually, theyll send you mail asking you to get in contact with them to indicate why they see a violation.

You have a local attorney, they should be ABLE to answer all your questions. That's what they get paid to do, if your attorney is not answering your questions and leaving you confused threaten to find another. They should be making this situation CRYSTAL CLEAR for you.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by C1Boston

Your senators office is the only entity aside from SSA who can really do anything about this. I had clients call their Senators here in Mass who have been successful but very few of them. I would ask for a supervisor and not settle for the people who regularly answer the phones or try to visit your senators office IN PERSON.

EXACTLY what documents are they requiring from Russia? Are you able to get any letter from the Russian government which indicates that he has no funds to draw from in Russia? Do they mention any specific name of a form or form code? Also do not reapply until they officially deny the claim as the new claim will NEVER get processed by them and sometimes they will not even call or inform you of that. If he is receiving 200/month they will not process the new claim either as he is already in payment. I'm sorry your relative has to deal with this but sadly situations like these are common in this system, it has personnel who can never lose their government job and people who simply lose empathy after doing this every day for a living.

BTW: Why did they stop his benefits? What rules did the state say he violated? The only way to violate SSA's rules is if you go back to work and fail to mention it; which typically means if you try to collect a paycheck via gainful employment and cash your SSA/Disability. Even if he went back to work, if he worked a month and stopped working they would classify this as a "failed attempt to work" so its mind boggling as to why they say he "violated" any terms. Not to mention if his medical records show that he has dementia they would reinstate his benefits right away or not cancel them at all. Usually, theyll send you mail asking you to get in contact with them to indicate why they see a violation.

You have a local attorney, they should be ABLE to answer all your questions. That's what they get paid to do, if your attorney is not answering your questions and leaving you confused threaten to find another. They should be making this situation CRYSTAL CLEAR for you.

Well, I've been dealing with this guy at Senators office for past 3 month. He is the person who deals with THIS specific issue. I am guessing his "supervisor" is the Senator? and what are the chances of me getting directly to the Senator. They all basically say: law is the law. And I get it, there is a LAW in place. The problem is that the law is the same for a 30 year old healthy person and for 100 year old elder who cant move.

They are requesting either a VALID Russian benefits rejection letter OR a letter verifying Russian pension benefits. I already gave them a rejection letter saying that he DOES NOT qualify for Russian pension because he does not have any necessary documents. SSA said its not good enough, since by LAW he MUST get Russian pension....period.

They stopped his benefits because he borrowed money from a friend and deposited to the account (next day withdrew the money, its part of dementia). As soon as I found out, I returned the money, and got a letter from that friend stating that he didnt know about my fathers illness and that I returned all money. It was $5000 bucks. So since like June 2016 his only income on bank statements is $200 bucks from SSA.

SSA said the whole thing is shady, we dont trust your father, and that RIGHT NOW whats holding the case from moving forward is the missing application for Russian pension.

The lawyer thats on the case, is the ONLY regional lawyer you get to handle SSA related issues (its free for elders). She said the issue is extremely complected, takes shit lots of time (on SSA part to schedule appeals etc), and that she has never had a case like this before. She is also sure that someone is deliberately sabotaging the case inside SSA.

[C1Boston]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Well, I've been dealing with this guy at Senators office for past 3 month. He is the person who deals with THIS specific issue. I am guessing his "supervisor" is the Senator? and what are the chances of me getting directly to the Senator. They all basically say: law is the law. And I get it, there is a LAW in place. The problem is that the law is the same for a 30 year old healthy person and for 100 year old elder who cant move.

They are requesting either a VALID Russian benefits rejection letter OR a letter verifying Russian pension benefits. I already gave them a rejection letter saying that he DOES NOT qualify for Russian pension because he does not have any necessary documents. SSA said its not good enough, since by LAW he MUST get Russian pension....period.

They stopped his benefits because he borrowed money from a friend and deposited to the account (next day withdrew the money, its part of dementia). As soon as I found out, I returned the money, and got a letter from that friend stating that he didnt know about my fathers illness and that I returned all money. It was $5000 bucks. So since like June 2016 his only income on bank statements is $200 bucks from SSA.

SSA said the whole thing is shady, we dont trust your father, and that RIGHT NOW whats holding the case from moving forward is the missing application for Russian pension.

The lawyer thats on the case, is the ONLY regional lawyer you get to handle SSA related issues (its free for elders). She said the issue is extremely complected, takes shit lots of time (on SSA part to schedule appeals etc), and that she has never had a case like this before. She is also sure that someone is deliberately sabotaging the case inside SSA.

1) Was this letter officially stamped by the Russian government? Do you have it? or did they keep it?

2) This is a problem, if somebody can just borrow 5 grand cash from a friend it will definitely be a red flag. Disability requirements are extreme, if they see that you can get cash from a family member/friend they will consider this an "income" its INSANE but those are their rules. When you explained to them that it was his friend did you offer medical records to back up your claim? Even if he had the money cash and did not deposit it he still got a hold of 5 thousand dollars someway, somehow...which to them right away is a concern because many ppl try to cheat this system (or think they can anyways). I'm not saying that this is what your relative is doing but this does look suspicious.

3) I wouldnt call the issue complicated but its certainly not your average case. They'll just give you a really hard time becaue of how he obtained 5k and then took out 5k just like that. Did your attorney appeal this? If the appeal was already submitted get that letter from the Russian government ASAP (MAKE SURE IT HAS SOME SORT OF CERTIFIED STAMP/SEAL) and get a copy of his records which relate to his dementia and copy of his bank statements which indicate the deposit of that 5k and the withdrawl. If all you did was tell them what happened, which to them, most likely, is just another story then they have no reason to believe you. Moreover, once you revive a letter which indicates that the appeal was processed bring in those documents RIGHT AWAY.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by C1Boston

1) Was this letter officially stamped by the Russian government? Do you have it? or did they keep it?

2) This is a problem, if somebody can just borrow 5 grand cash from a friend it will definitely be a red flag. Disability requirements are extreme, if they see that you can get cash from a family member/friend they will consider this an "income" its INSANE but those are their rules. When you explained to them that it was his friend did you offer medical records to back up your claim? Even if he had the money cash and did not deposit it he still got a hold of 5 thousand dollars someway, somehow...which to them right away is a concern because many ppl try to cheat this system (or think they can anyways). I'm not saying that this is what your relative is doing but this does look suspicious.

3) I wouldnt call the issue complicated but its certainly not your average case. They'll just give you a really hard time becaue of how he obtained 5k and then took out 5k just like that. Did your attorney appeal this? If the appeal was already submitted get that letter from the Russian government ASAP (MAKE SURE IT HAS SOME SORT OF CERTIFIED STAMP/SEAL) and get a copy of his records which relate to his dementia and copy of his bank statements which indicate the deposit of that 5k and the withdrawl. If all you did was tell them what happened, which to them, most likely, is just another story then they have no reason to believe you. Moreover, once you revive a letter which indicates that the appeal was processed bring in those documents RIGHT AWAY.

1. I gave them the copy in Russian, stampeded, they translated it.

2. I gave them a letter from his friend stating that he borrowed the money and returned it few weeks later. I also gave them 2 letters from doctors stating that he had a stoke and that he currently has a dementia and is NOT able to make right decisions on his own and is in NEED of financial help

3. They wanted him to refund all previous benefits. The $5k mix up was appealed and I think it was all set after that. I received a letter saying that they approved the appeal and he does NOT need to refund any money. However right after that, the pension issue came and I was told that its holding up his benefits.

In January I received a letter stating that he still makes $1000 per month....with zero proof. I told them that its pure BS, he can barely walk 100ft. Guess what they told me....."Well we saw him in SSA office with bunch of cash inside the pocket, we assumed its about $1000 and we figured it his January income"
The fact that he has negative balance on his account they forgot to check....he's paranoid about using cards, so he cashes out his account whenever there is that $200 bucks, plus I gave him maybe a few.