Catch can with ATM intake

atropine · 07-24-2017, 11:17 AM

I am starting tonight on the alphabet delete process. I will be installing an ATM exhaust/DP, plus ATM intercooler and ATM intake (the intakes are on backorder so that part will occur as soon as they come in). I already have Dave's EGR blockoff installed and I plant to leave the EGR cooler in place. I will be replacing the vacuum lines at the same time. I would like to install a catch can while I am doing all this work, but I am having a hard time figuring out exactly where to do it. Looking at all the other posts, I am concerned about routing it right above the turbos because of all the heat in that area. Another option has been in the tight space right in front of the stock airbox, but I don't think that will work with the ATM intake as that whole area gets blocked off. Others have installed it up front after removing the EGR cooler, but since I plan to retain the cooler I don't think there is enough space there. So maybe the only other option is around on the driver's side? The downside to this is the long hose runs. Is this a problem? If not, maybe I will do it there. My understanding is that I just need to avoid "sag" or "low" spots in the hoses, and mount the catch can slightly higher than the points where I tap into the OEM CCV hose. Is this correct?

BB_cuda · 07-24-2017, 11:45 AM

I would be one of the people with CC in front where EGR cooler used to reside. I also have the ATM air box. But, I had the CC up front even with OEM air box in place. I am of the opinion that short runs are better and simpler. We all vary here though. There is a way to use IA's block off at the exhaust manifold and delete the cooler too. I got a junk cooler and cut the flange off of it along with a small piece of the tubing the flange holds in place. I will attempt to find a picture of this for you. I blocked the opposite connection coming into EGR with a homemade plate sealed with RTV. It all worked fine. I did find the path fir the CC hoses to be more easily managed after airbox changeover. I will edit this post with a couple pics.
EDIT: pictures now attached

robnitro · 07-24-2017, 01:51 PM

Bb cuda, how did you make that block off plate?

Miko226 · 07-24-2017, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robnitro

Bb cuda, how did you make that block off plate?

ATM Sells this blockoff

https://www.atmspeedshop.com/collect.../bmw-egr-plate

atropine · 07-24-2017, 02:29 PM

Thanks BB. On the other end, was your blockoff plate just a simple thin disc like Dave's? Just simple RTV sealant and it has held up well with no leaks? Since you removed the actual EGR cooler, what did you do with the coolant lines that go in and out of the cooler? Can they just be threaded together?

BB_cuda · 07-24-2017, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atropine

Thanks BB. On the other end, was your blockoff plate just a simple thin disc like Dave's? Just simple RTV sealant and it has held up well with no leaks? Since you removed the actual EGR cooler, what did you do with the coolant lines that go in and out of the cooler? Can they just be threaded together?

Here is a picture of the other end. Way before this picture, I used the ATM thin sheet metal disc. I eventually got a boost leak. What I mean is, the EGR was still trying to open and close but when it was opening, the boost was leaking OUT of the EGR. I implemented a more bulletproof block off to stop the boost leak. The thing that was really messed up about this was that Ecotune was supposed to have turned off the EGR and this proved that they hadn't.

Andrew at AARodriguez sells a hose bypass as part of his racepipe kit. You can connect his hose to both of the black lines OR buy the machined plugs from another member. The little plugs clip in perfectly into the lines. I will PM you the user's name. Last solution was my brute force method which is a hybrid between the two(see last 2 pictures). I designed little nipples that fit the black lines just like the plugs I mentioned but the other end had a male pipe thread on it that I connected to SS elbows and a 6" long pipe nipple. I'll see if I can attach this picture too. I had a small run of these done by a local machines shop and 4 other forum members got the other 4 sets. The minimum run was 10 parts so we 5 guys needed 2 fittings each. I am not in the business of being the middle man on these fittings. I can hook you up with the machine shop that ran them but then you get to find 4 other people wanting to build a SS bypass. I repeat that the plugs are a cheaper way and it has worked fine for others. I can give you the autocad drawing too if you want to get a machine shop of your own choosing to run them. Not trying to come across mean, I just have no interest in managing parts supply. I did it once to enable getting them run at $35 each. That was in 316L SS. If I had it to do over again, it would be in simple aluminum to both make it mush easier to machine (as in cheaper) and be more light weight. Now, bring on the questions as I have whacked a hornet's nest.

atropine · 07-24-2017, 05:01 PM

Thanks for all the input; this is very helpful. I will decide which way to go soon. Any problems with running your catch can up front in the location of the old EGR cooler? That is looking like maybe the best option. Can you access the catch can to drain it without removing the plastic intake cover?

BB_cuda · 07-25-2017, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atropine

Thanks for all the input; this is very helpful. I will decide which way to go soon. Any problems with running your catch can up front in the location of the old EGR cooler? That is looking like maybe the best option. Can you access the catch can to drain it without removing the plastic intake cover?

No, I have to remove the cover. I normally run with cover off during the summer anyway to let it be cooler. I don't seem to get much oil collection though. I empty it about every 5000 miles and its normally like 30-40 cc's. I go check my notes from last empty. Apparently, i have stirred up a couple other people along with you on those fabricated EGR cooler water plugs.

atropine · 07-25-2017, 06:57 PM

Thx again. Maybe this is silly, but do you think there is any concern about excess engine heat on the underside of the hood without the engine cover? I see temps of 117-118 F here in the Las Vegas area in the summer...

BB_cuda · 07-25-2017, 07:30 PM

Okay, the source of the heat under the hood is the engine. I would argue if the engine is allowed to dump more heat, the overall under hood temp will be lower. There is actually insulation on the under side if hood but I think it's on there to not let as much diesel engine noise out. I do hear the engine more with the cover off.

By the way, there is a thread here concerning switching from standard cowl to M3 cowl for same reason. The M3 cowl is a little more open and should let more heat out. The thread was actually started as a guy was switching to the really small filters and eliminating the standard straight across cowl. I'll find it and give to you.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=932862

post #16 is where the thread sort of takes the turn to the M3 cowl.

atropine · 07-26-2017, 04:16 PM

Cool. Thx as usual!

atropine · 08-01-2017, 11:30 AM

I assume I should Teflon tape the threads where the fitting go into the catch can? Any problems with this?

BB_cuda · 08-01-2017, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atropine

I assume I should Teflon tape the threads where the fitting go into the catch can? Any problems with this?

You didn't say which catch can you're installing. I didn't use teflon tape. It all depends on what kind of threading. Teflon tape is for pipe thread, not unified thread. The catch can will actually be under vacuum pressure presuming you hook the output of can back into the inlet of the turbo. TDI has measured the pressure using a manometer. It is below atmospheric pressure. If you had a real bad leak, you would suck debris into the turbo. You need to periodically inspect these hoses for splits/cracks.

Even without a catch can, the little ribbed hose that connects CCV outlet to turbo "shoe" fitting is known to crack. I replaced mine. See picture for what i mean. Borrowed picture from an old posting of Yozh. That's his m-sport (and hand).

atropine · 08-01-2017, 02:12 PM

Thanks Cuda. I am doing a catch can similar to the one in this post:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1299219

I am completely removing that thin factory hose. Installing those 90 degree silicone hoses and then the braided AN10 hose. The only difference is that I am going to route the can the opposite direction and run it over to the now-empty space that used to be inhabited by my EGR cooler.

I bought this catch can off Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/TT-Racing-Uni.../dp/B01MXJFFPA

I haven't gotten around to even threading the fittings into the can. I guess if they seal pretty tight I don't need to bother with anything else.

Thanks again

BB_cuda · 08-01-2017, 02:36 PM

I use that same can and just used the threading as is. My location is also where cooler used to reside but pulled to passenger side.

atropine · 08-01-2017, 03:45 PM

Thanks. Do you happen to have any pictures of how u mounted the can? I am thinking it might be nice to fabricate a bracket that mounts to the EGR cooler mount points and/or engine hoist bracket since this catch can has the 2-hole mounting points in the back. It would have to be mounted just far enough up/forward that the bottom part of the can could be unscrewed and pulled out for oil dumping without unbolting the top part of the can from the bracket.

BB_cuda · 08-01-2017, 06:38 PM

I was a bit unclear. I have same canas the e90post link, not the amazon link. They are quite similar though. I tie wrapped to the side of the vacuum pump around top of can. I am able to unscrew bottom part for emptying. I'm not home so I will need to find a pic on the laptop. Posting from phone right now.

atropine · 08-02-2017, 05:30 AM

Thanks Cuda. I ended up zip-Tying it also. Seems pretty stable there. I finished everything up tonight except for the ATM intake.

BB_cuda · 08-02-2017, 10:51 AM

This is likely too late for your benefit but tie wraps are easily cut and re-rigged. Admittedly, this is sort of red neck engineering on my part but it has stayed put for at least 2 years. I have refined it a bit after the 90° rubber elbows cracked. I added the metal elbows 1/2 way down the to and from can runs. This let me run them between the main air inlet and the vacuum pump. It also let me have better control of exactly where it resides by the pump. Before, i had a hose bend there and it was always a fight to get the bends to cooperate. Now, no bends and its not a fight. When i converted from the OEM airbox to the ATM airbox, the inlet hose to turbo (the >3" diameter one, not the ribbed little CCV one) shifted a little to passenger side and this relieved the cramped nature of the "north-south" runs prior to 90° metal elbow. These pictures are before the ATM airbox was put in

atropine · 08-02-2017, 11:23 AM

Thanks- its always helpful to see how other people did things so if I need to make modifications I have ideas. Mine is similar, but I just ran the catch can over a little further toward the driver's side and it sits up a little higher. I tied it to the little mounting bracket that previously bolted the EGR cooler to the engine. Only problem is it sits so high that I can't reinstall the engine cover. I'm thinking of just leaving it off anyway. That way I can see my pretty new blue vacuum hoses and more easily get to the catch can anyway.

I have one other question- on post #13 above, the upper part (right above the thin ribbed OEM hose) has 2 "clip-on" fittings- one that actually attaches to the crankcase vent tube and the other one is just an electrical sensor. The plastic crankcase vent tube has a round end that receives the part you posted in #13. This round end of the rigid plastic CCV tube LOOKS like it a separate piece of the CCV tube and should be able to rotate in a circle, which would allow me to rotate the 2 fittings in #13 90 degrees counterclockwise. This would relieve a lot of the space pressure in this tight area like you were commenting on. But I tried to rotate the end of that plastic crankcase vent tube and it didn't budge. I was afraid to push harder and break the tube. Does anyone know if that end of the rigid plastic CCV tube will rotate if given enough force, or is it "glued" in a stationary position?

BB_cuda · 08-02-2017, 01:24 PM

Okay, there are old catch can threads where some have played games here a little. Here is a picture of the new hose assembly I had to buy to get the new ribbed hose. In the picture, its shows exactly what you describe. I don't see how to rotate the main CCV connection 90° counterclockwise AND make the other electrical connection with that 2nd clip. The other threads do comment how some folks have completed that circuit with a piece of wire. I have no direct experience here. One guy (TDIwyse I think) actually cut that CCV plastic pipe a little shorter and connected up to it with conventional hose. He likely connected up the circuit that is related to that second clip.

Anyone else is welcome to jump in and show him how to compete the circuit. I think what people do is not use that top piece that has the 2 clips, use a conventional hose clamp to attach another elbow (like you want to do) and then use a piece of wire to complete the other circuit that the secondary thing plugs into. This is speculation on my part though. One guy completely did away with the whole plastic duct that starts back further aft on the valve cover. These are all in older threads from more than 2 years ago. I will have to hunt and post a link.

BB_cuda · 08-05-2017, 09:44 AM

Okay, i'm back with a link to a real good thread.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...nector&page=13

go to page 13, post #274. It shows a good labeled picture of the the different components in the ribbed hose assembly. I would skip back a couple pages and read through through the posts. In there is where people talk about jumpering the connection that the clip completes. There are a couple other smaller CC threads. This is more the mother one.

07-24-2017, 11:17 AM	#1
atropine Enlisted Member 9 Rep 40 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport with deletes Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Logandale, NV iTrader: (0)	Catch can with ATM intake I am starting tonight on the alphabet delete process. I will be installing an ATM exhaust/DP, plus ATM intercooler and ATM intake (the intakes are on backorder so that part will occur as soon as they come in). I already have Dave's EGR blockoff installed and I plant to leave the EGR cooler in place. I will be replacing the vacuum lines at the same time. I would like to install a catch can while I am doing all this work, but I am having a hard time figuring out exactly where to do it. Looking at all the other posts, I am concerned about routing it right above the turbos because of all the heat in that area. Another option has been in the tight space right in front of the stock airbox, but I don't think that will work with the ATM intake as that whole area gets blocked off. Others have installed it up front after removing the EGR cooler, but since I plan to retain the cooler I don't think there is enough space there. So maybe the only other option is around on the driver's side? The downside to this is the long hose runs. Is this a problem? If not, maybe I will do it there. My understanding is that I just need to avoid "sag" or "low" spots in the hoses, and mount the catch can slightly higher than the points where I tap into the OEM CCV hose. Is this correct?
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

07-24-2017, 11:45 AM	#2
BB_cuda Brigadier General 796 Rep 3,572 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	I would be one of the people with CC in front where EGR cooler used to reside. I also have the ATM air box. But, I had the CC up front even with OEM air box in place. I am of the opinion that short runs are better and simpler. We all vary here though. There is a way to use IA's block off at the exhaust manifold and delete the cooler too. I got a junk cooler and cut the flange off of it along with a small piece of the tubing the flange holds in place. I will attempt to find a picture of this for you. I blocked the opposite connection coming into EGR with a homemade plate sealed with RTV. It all worked fine. I did find the path fir the CC hoses to be more easily managed after airbox changeover. I will edit this post with a couple pics. EDIT: pictures now attached Attached Images Last edited by BB_cuda; 07-24-2017 at 12:14 PM.. Reason: added in pictures
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-24-2017, 01:51 PM	#3
robnitro Captain 166 Rep 805 Posts Drives: x5 35d e70 2011 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: NYC area iTrader: (0)	Bb cuda, how did you make that block off plate?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-24-2017, 02:29 PM	#5
atropine Enlisted Member 9 Rep 40 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport with deletes Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Logandale, NV iTrader: (0)	Thanks BB. On the other end, was your blockoff plate just a simple thin disc like Dave's? Just simple RTV sealant and it has held up well with no leaks? Since you removed the actual EGR cooler, what did you do with the coolant lines that go in and out of the cooler? Can they just be threaded together?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-24-2017, 05:01 PM	#7
atropine Enlisted Member 9 Rep 40 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport with deletes Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Logandale, NV iTrader: (0)	Thanks for all the input; this is very helpful. I will decide which way to go soon. Any problems with running your catch can up front in the location of the old EGR cooler? That is looking like maybe the best option. Can you access the catch can to drain it without removing the plastic intake cover?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-25-2017, 06:57 PM	#9
atropine Enlisted Member 9 Rep 40 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport with deletes Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Logandale, NV iTrader: (0)	Thx again. Maybe this is silly, but do you think there is any concern about excess engine heat on the underside of the hood without the engine cover? I see temps of 117-118 F here in the Las Vegas area in the summer...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-25-2017, 07:30 PM	#10
BB_cuda Brigadier General 796 Rep 3,572 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	Okay, the source of the heat under the hood is the engine. I would argue if the engine is allowed to dump more heat, the overall under hood temp will be lower. There is actually insulation on the under side if hood but I think it's on there to not let as much diesel engine noise out. I do hear the engine more with the cover off. By the way, there is a thread here concerning switching from standard cowl to M3 cowl for same reason. The M3 cowl is a little more open and should let more heat out. The thread was actually started as a guy was switching to the really small filters and eliminating the standard straight across cowl. I'll find it and give to you. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=932862 post #16 is where the thread sort of takes the turn to the M3 cowl. Last edited by BB_cuda; 07-25-2017 at 08:34 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-26-2017, 04:16 PM	#11
atropine Enlisted Member 9 Rep 40 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport with deletes Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Logandale, NV iTrader: (0)	Cool. Thx as usual!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-01-2017, 11:30 AM	#12
atropine Enlisted Member 9 Rep 40 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport with deletes Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Logandale, NV iTrader: (0)	I assume I should Teflon tape the threads where the fitting go into the catch can? Any problems with this?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-01-2017, 02:12 PM	#14
atropine Enlisted Member 9 Rep 40 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport with deletes Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Logandale, NV iTrader: (0)	Thanks Cuda. I am doing a catch can similar to the one in this post: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1299219 I am completely removing that thin factory hose. Installing those 90 degree silicone hoses and then the braided AN10 hose. The only difference is that I am going to route the can the opposite direction and run it over to the now-empty space that used to be inhabited by my EGR cooler. I bought this catch can off Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/TT-Racing-Uni.../dp/B01MXJFFPA I haven't gotten around to even threading the fittings into the can. I guess if they seal pretty tight I don't need to bother with anything else. Thanks again
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-01-2017, 02:36 PM	#15
BB_cuda Brigadier General 796 Rep 3,572 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	I use that same can and just used the threading as is. My location is also where cooler used to reside but pulled to passenger side.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-01-2017, 03:45 PM	#16
atropine Enlisted Member 9 Rep 40 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport with deletes Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Logandale, NV iTrader: (0)	Thanks. Do you happen to have any pictures of how u mounted the can? I am thinking it might be nice to fabricate a bracket that mounts to the EGR cooler mount points and/or engine hoist bracket since this catch can has the 2-hole mounting points in the back. It would have to be mounted just far enough up/forward that the bottom part of the can could be unscrewed and pulled out for oil dumping without unbolting the top part of the can from the bracket.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-01-2017, 06:38 PM	#17
BB_cuda Brigadier General 796 Rep 3,572 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	I was a bit unclear. I have same canas the e90post link, not the amazon link. They are quite similar though. I tie wrapped to the side of the vacuum pump around top of can. I am able to unscrew bottom part for emptying. I'm not home so I will need to find a pic on the laptop. Posting from phone right now.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-02-2017, 05:30 AM	#18
atropine Enlisted Member 9 Rep 40 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport with deletes Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Logandale, NV iTrader: (0)	Thanks Cuda. I ended up zip-Tying it also. Seems pretty stable there. I finished everything up tonight except for the ATM intake.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-02-2017, 10:51 AM	#19
BB_cuda Brigadier General 796 Rep 3,572 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	This is likely too late for your benefit but tie wraps are easily cut and re-rigged. Admittedly, this is sort of red neck engineering on my part but it has stayed put for at least 2 years. I have refined it a bit after the 90° rubber elbows cracked. I added the metal elbows 1/2 way down the to and from can runs. This let me run them between the main air inlet and the vacuum pump. It also let me have better control of exactly where it resides by the pump. Before, i had a hose bend there and it was always a fight to get the bends to cooperate. Now, no bends and its not a fight. When i converted from the OEM airbox to the ATM airbox, the inlet hose to turbo (the >3" diameter one, not the ribbed little CCV one) shifted a little to passenger side and this relieved the cramped nature of the "north-south" runs prior to 90° metal elbow. These pictures are before the ATM airbox was put in Attached Images
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-02-2017, 11:23 AM	#20
atropine Enlisted Member 9 Rep 40 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport with deletes Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Logandale, NV iTrader: (0)	Will the end of the CCV tube rotate? Thanks- its always helpful to see how other people did things so if I need to make modifications I have ideas. Mine is similar, but I just ran the catch can over a little further toward the driver's side and it sits up a little higher. I tied it to the little mounting bracket that previously bolted the EGR cooler to the engine. Only problem is it sits so high that I can't reinstall the engine cover. I'm thinking of just leaving it off anyway. That way I can see my pretty new blue vacuum hoses and more easily get to the catch can anyway. I have one other question- on post #13 above, the upper part (right above the thin ribbed OEM hose) has 2 "clip-on" fittings- one that actually attaches to the crankcase vent tube and the other one is just an electrical sensor. The plastic crankcase vent tube has a round end that receives the part you posted in #13. This round end of the rigid plastic CCV tube LOOKS like it a separate piece of the CCV tube and should be able to rotate in a circle, which would allow me to rotate the 2 fittings in #13 90 degrees counterclockwise. This would relieve a lot of the space pressure in this tight area like you were commenting on. But I tried to rotate the end of that plastic crankcase vent tube and it didn't budge. I was afraid to push harder and break the tube. Does anyone know if that end of the rigid plastic CCV tube will rotate if given enough force, or is it "glued" in a stationary position?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-02-2017, 01:24 PM	#21
BB_cuda Brigadier General 796 Rep 3,572 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	Okay, there are old catch can threads where some have played games here a little. Here is a picture of the new hose assembly I had to buy to get the new ribbed hose. In the picture, its shows exactly what you describe. I don't see how to rotate the main CCV connection 90° counterclockwise AND make the other electrical connection with that 2nd clip. The other threads do comment how some folks have completed that circuit with a piece of wire. I have no direct experience here. One guy (TDIwyse I think) actually cut that CCV plastic pipe a little shorter and connected up to it with conventional hose. He likely connected up the circuit that is related to that second clip. Anyone else is welcome to jump in and show him how to compete the circuit. I think what people do is not use that top piece that has the 2 clips, use a conventional hose clamp to attach another elbow (like you want to do) and then use a piece of wire to complete the other circuit that the secondary thing plugs into. This is speculation on my part though. One guy completely did away with the whole plastic duct that starts back further aft on the valve cover. These are all in older threads from more than 2 years ago. I will have to hunt and post a link. Attached Images
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-05-2017, 09:44 AM	#22
BB_cuda Brigadier General 796 Rep 3,572 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	Okay, i'm back with a link to a real good thread. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...nector&page=13 go to page 13, post #274. It shows a good labeled picture of the the different components in the ribbed hose assembly. I would skip back a couple pages and read through through the posts. In there is where people talk about jumpering the connection that the clip completes. There are a couple other smaller CC threads. This is more the mother one.
	Appreciate 0 Quote