2010 with HiFi Stereo -Do I Need a DSP Converter?

vernors · 10-17-2017, 01:07 PM

Hey All, while I have a 2010 535i with navigation and the basic (Hifi) system, it is very similar (or the same) as the E9X, at least as far as I know. I've heard great things about this forum and its users so thought I'd post an audio question here.

I've read some confusing information about amplifier and speaker upgrade options.

Since I've got the navigation, it appears that the original amplifier (in trunk I assume) needs to stay connected in order to avoid any on screen issues. Is that right?

Also, I've read but haven't confirmed that it's connected via fiber optic. So a digital signal converter could be needed. One choice appears to be the Mobridge DA converter (M1000-M-DA2 is the model I think) which has RCA outs to which you can connect to an amplifier. I assume this approach would require some sort of speaker wire harness, or splicing into it.

I've read that a member here, Technic, has made a compatible wiring harness, but the posts were old and I don't know if he still sells them.

I've also read that the JL Audio 600/5, 700/5 and 900/5 amps are great choices to drive the 4 main speakers and 2 underseat subs. I'm probably going to get two 4 ohm subs (earthquake) and run them in parallel dropping it down to a single channel at 2 ohms. I've got Focal's for the fronts and rears...although am considering an upgrade to the 6.5" midbass driver for the front doors. If it's possible to fit them in.

What's the simplest way to add an amplifier to this set up? JL Audio with wiring harness? Or is a DSP converter required? Do 6.5's fit in the front doors with some modification?

Thanks for the advice. Appreciated!

-----------------

UPDATE: Regardless of what you read in this thread, please note that the 2010 E60 with HIFI DOES NOT have the same HIFI system as 2004-2009 E60. It has a single 6 channel trunk mounted amp which powers all speakers. If you buy Technic's wiring harness make sure to speak with them as the 2010 uses an E9X HIFI wiring harness. This has caused me a LOT of extra work and trouble, unnecessarily.

ctuna · 10-17-2017, 02:07 PM

vernors · 10-17-2017, 03:23 PM

Wow, thanks for all the links. I'm getting the car next month and will confirm which version I have. Hopefully it's the one with the amp in the rear, and not the version powered off the navigation system.

ctuna · 10-17-2017, 04:42 PM

You can run one of the free online Vin checkers and it
will print out the options.

vernors · 10-17-2017, 07:20 PM

Just called the dealer as the Vin Checker didn't specify the system, but gave good info on other options. Apparently it's a CIC with the amp in the trunk....which sounds like the easiest one to upgrade...?

ctuna · 10-17-2017, 08:25 PM

You can run the vin yourself online and it will give you options
either they are uninformed or are handing you some BS.
If it has logic 7 its a pain to modify but most people will
be satisfied with that one.

The option used to be 676 for hi fi and
677 for Top Hi Fi which is logic 7 and the numbers
(top hi fi changed to 688 in 2010 )and after.
for it after that were similar. If it doesn't say hi fi or
top hi fi in the Vin checker there is no amp . You should
verify this your self don't take there word for it.

https://www.bmwvin.com/

If Hi Fi or Top Hi Fi is not listed in the 6xx range you don't
have an amp. You need to do your homework yourself.
Until you know what you have for sure just read the links
cause each of the three main system types require a slightly different approach.

vernors · 10-18-2017, 01:52 PM

Looks like it's the HiFi system. Here are the results of that Vin check:

S609A Navigation system Professional
S615A Expanded BMW Online Information
S620A Voice control
S639A Preparation f mobile phone cpl. USA/CDN
S645A BMW US Radio
S653A High Definition Radio
S655A Satellite tuner
S676A HiFi speaker system
S697A Area-Code 1 for DVD
S6AAA BMW TeleServices
S6ABA Control for Teleservices
S6FLA USB/Audio interface

ctuna · 10-18-2017, 04:28 PM

Ok you know what to look at now.

vernors · 10-18-2017, 05:31 PM

Yep, thanks, this may be easier than expected. I think I'll be able to bypass the amp in the trunk using Technic's wiring harness....which I assume enables the aftermarket amp to get the signal from the factory harness and then allows me to plug back into the harness below the amp and directly to the speakers so that no cutting of the OEM harness is necessary. From what I've read this avoids the need for a DSP as that is something that is already done upstream.

Am I thinking of this right? Thanks

ctuna · 10-18-2017, 10:09 PM

Yes the Technic Hi Fi Harness makes and aftermarket amp install super
simple. You just throw a lever on the old amp connector and it unplugs.
Plus everything is labeled.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...3&d=1329017429

You don't need DSP but it does some things that just and amp doesn't do like time delay and per channel eq. But just and amp and some good speakers can be awsome.

ptpending · 10-18-2017, 11:57 PM

if you have HiFi system, then the best path to upgrade is start with bimmertech match 82ppdsp amplifier with plug and play harness
it's a bit pricey but it give new life to your speakes
after that you can swap the speakers

vernors · 10-19-2017, 12:27 AM

Interesting that the DSP features aren't available with just an amp swap and the wiring harness. I assume that is because the OEM amp handles all of the individual speaker adjustments through the fiberoptic connection...?

If so, then I know exactly what I'm going to do. Will need a DSP converter because I'd like to keep all of the adjustable features offered through the factory system.

Thanks for the info on the Match amp PT, but probably going to upgrade all speakers and will need more punch (75 watts @ 4 ohms minimum) because they are usually power hungry.

I appreciate all the help and feedback. Makes planning and avoiding mistakes much simpler.
Thanks.

ptpending · 10-19-2017, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vernors

Interesting that the DSP features aren't available with just an amp swap and the wiring harness. I assume that is because the OEM amp handles all of the individual speaker adjustments through the fiberoptic connection...?

If so, then I know exactly what I'm going to do. Will need a DSP converter because I'd like to keep all of the adjustable features offered through the factory system.

Thanks for the info on the Match amp PT, but probably going to upgrade all speakers and will need more punch (75 watts @ 4 ohms minimum) because they are usually power hungry.

I appreciate all the help and feedback. Makes planning and avoiding mistakes much simpler.
Thanks.

your 676 option amp do not have fiber optic connection
only 677 688 or bang&olufsen amps have fiber optic connection
the way you are going is wrong because you will not get good sound only with speakes and some powerful amp, and you'll come to amp with good dsp as bimmertech provides
check other threads about pp82dsp install and you'll see that many owners of the 676 option is satisfied with pp82dsp upgrade

ctuna · 10-19-2017, 02:14 AM

Although a DSP can make cheap speakers sound better
there is no substitute for good speakers.
If i had it to do again I would be looking at Helix V8 or 6 DSP.

vernors · 10-19-2017, 05:42 PM

Ok, getting a bit confused here. Is the OEM BMW amp processing the digital signal from the radio/navigation? Or, is it acting merely as an amplifier and the signal it's receiving is analog?

It sounds like it receives a digital format, which I assume means it comes through a fiber optic/TOS or something similar....?

If that is the case, I then need to look at a DSP converter to output to an analog amp, or a single unit that is a DSP converter/Amp combined.

I did look at the Match DSP/Amp, and since I'm going to be running Focal drivers 35 watts RMS isn't going to be enough power. These drivers, even though they are 4" have an RMS rating of 75 watts at 4 ohms.

The audio set up planned is:

Focal Front Components
- (ES 100k, which I already have in current car)
Focal Rear Components
2 SWS-8xi Mid bass Drivers
- Probably need to run them on individual channels assuming they act in 'stereo'. Are they more mid bass drivers and tied to right and left channels?
1 JL Audio Sub
- (12W7-AE3, already have in current car)
JL Audio xd600v2
Punch 750 RMS (at 3 ohms) mono sub amp

I've got a Helix amp right now (Dark Blue) but it's old school and much to big to sit next to or near existing amp. But, I do like Helix products and would consider their DSP. Still, the MoBridge looks to be significantly less expensive.

But, again I'm not clear on if I need to add the DSP or not.....now that you all know where I'm headed...thoughts? Thanks.

ctuna · 10-19-2017, 06:17 PM

Its just a Head Unit it has a certain amount of eq as does anything(simple bass and treble controls on Hi Fi)
the factory eq is pretty decent if you just want to add and amp plenty of people have done that.
In its three different programmable configurations BMW overtweeked(stereo system no amp)
the high end to compensate for cheaping out on no tweeters but you are not interested in that.
In the configuration you have Hi Fi most people just added and amp and
some good speakers and the results are way better than the stock system even the L7.
If you want the ultimate system then get some really good speakers
and a DSP/amp this allows you to get the last bit out of the speakers and
the acoustics in the car if you have the ability , time and patience to tune a DSP.
There was no DSP at one time yet people made awsome systems with just
a good speakers and amps.

The new Helix amp/DSP are amps and a DSP combined
and they are not large because of new Tech and class D technology.

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/lng/en/pp-82dsp.html

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/lng/en/v-eight-dsp.html

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/lng/e...x-dsp-mk2.html

You would use one of these and your sub and sub amp

If you use a dedicated sub you would be better of using
a mid bass underseat. SWS is more of a sub than mid bass.

vernors · 10-19-2017, 06:46 PM

Great, I'm starting to understand this better. From a cost perspective it makes more sense to go with one of the Helix DSP/Amp combinations, than spend $400 for a Mobridge and another $400 or so for a JL 6 channel.

Do you by chance know if the system configurations through iDrive (time delay, eq, etc) will be communicated to the Helix (or another DSP) or would I have to manually change settings on the Helix unit? I don't doubt frequency response, etc will need to be done on the dsp/amp, but some communication with the head unit of the Hifi system would be preferred.

In looking around, I also see DSP/Amp combinations by AudioControl and Kenwood...

Yep, your suggestion of DSP/Amp out to 6 main speakers plus the mono amp to sub makes sense to me.

ctuna · 10-19-2017, 08:17 PM

If you have Hi Fi there are only simple bass and treble controls
doen't matter if its idrive or pro radio as far as I know.

The thing about the Helix is it appears to be more advanced
and well supported.

6spdcoupe · 10-20-2017, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vernors

Great, I'm starting to understand this better. From a cost perspective it makes more sense to go with one of the Helix DSP/Amp combinations, than spend $400 for a Mobridge and another $400 or so for a JL 6 channel.

Do you by chance know if the system configurations through iDrive (time delay, eq, etc) will be communicated to the Helix (or another DSP) or would I have to manually change settings on the Helix unit? I don't doubt frequency response, etc will need to be done on the dsp/amp, but some communication with the head unit of the Hifi system would be preferred.

In looking around, I also see DSP/Amp combinations by AudioControl and Kenwood...

Yep, your suggestion of DSP/Amp out to 6 main speakers plus the mono amp to sub makes sense to me.

Mobridge would do absolutely nothing for you. You have an analog signal to your OE amp and Mobridge is for a fiber interface.

DSP/amp is downstream from your iDrive, no additional features or functions would be found there and your main menu/settings would all remain the same regardless of what gear you install.

ctuna · 10-20-2017, 11:51 AM

Also 6spdcoupe reps some of the best products for your
car you might want to contact him about a package.
Which include Helix , Jehnert and others.
Contact him at his web site google Unexpected Creations.

There are diagrams and all the info you need in the links
I put up you just need to read it.

Setting up a DSP is a long process sometimes you can find
some canned DSP files that can get you in the Ballpark other wise there is this 14 part series on y tube.

look the rest of them up.

vernors · 10-20-2017, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spdcoupe

Mobridge would do absolutely nothing for you. You have an analog signal to your OE amp and Mobridge is for a fiber interface.

DSP/amp is downstream from your iDrive, no additional features or functions would be found there and your main menu/settings would all remain the same regardless of what gear you install.

Ahhhhhhh, ok then I was getting confused if this is the case. I thought the amp had built in DSP and that I'd need to swap in either a converter or a DSP/Amp combo.....

So, if this is true, then the iDrive talks to a DSP Unit, which then connects to a traditional analog amp, which sends the signals to the speakers...

My options open up a lot because then I'm back to the choice of using a wiring harness and then just swapping out amp and speakers.

To Ctuna's point, using a DSP/Amp combo will enable me to custom tune the cabin by setting time delays, etc....which the HiFi system doesn't offer. (I assume....?)

Do I have that right?

ctuna · 10-20-2017, 12:04 PM

You are confusing systems as it was said and if you read the links
only the Logic 7 amp uses a Fiberoptic interface(whixh is where Mobridge
comes in Fiberoptic only interface for Logic 7 amp with a head unit programmed for logic 7) but the other two systems are analog . This is in all the links
you are not reading deep enough.
There are some block diagrams of the Logic 7 amp and the Hi fi amp in the first links I gave you.

In addition to Time delay DSP has really fine eq adjustments on all kinds of filters to control the sound on a per channel basis.

No time delay or per channel eq on any of the BMW systems
that is user programmable.

10-17-2017, 01:07 PM	#1
vernors Private 5 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 2010 535i Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Troy, MI iTrader: (0)	2010 with HiFi Stereo -Do I Need a DSP Converter? Hey All, while I have a 2010 535i with navigation and the basic (Hifi) system, it is very similar (or the same) as the E9X, at least as far as I know. I've heard great things about this forum and its users so thought I'd post an audio question here. I've read some confusing information about amplifier and speaker upgrade options. Since I've got the navigation, it appears that the original amplifier (in trunk I assume) needs to stay connected in order to avoid any on screen issues. Is that right? Also, I've read but haven't confirmed that it's connected via fiber optic. So a digital signal converter could be needed. One choice appears to be the Mobridge DA converter (M1000-M-DA2 is the model I think) which has RCA outs to which you can connect to an amplifier. I assume this approach would require some sort of speaker wire harness, or splicing into it. I've read that a member here, Technic, has made a compatible wiring harness, but the posts were old and I don't know if he still sells them. I've also read that the JL Audio 600/5, 700/5 and 900/5 amps are great choices to drive the 4 main speakers and 2 underseat subs. I'm probably going to get two 4 ohm subs (earthquake) and run them in parallel dropping it down to a single channel at 2 ohms. I've got Focal's for the fronts and rears...although am considering an upgrade to the 6.5" midbass driver for the front doors. If it's possible to fit them in. What's the simplest way to add an amplifier to this set up? JL Audio with wiring harness? Or is a DSP converter required? Do 6.5's fit in the front doors with some modification? Thanks for the advice. Appreciated! ----------------- UPDATE: Regardless of what you read in this thread, please note that the 2010 E60 with HIFI DOES NOT have the same HIFI system as 2004-2009 E60. It has a single 6 channel trunk mounted amp which powers all speakers. If you buy Technic's wiring harness make sure to speak with them as the 2010 uses an E9X HIFI wiring harness. This has caused me a LOT of extra work and trouble, unnecessarily. Last edited by vernors; 11-27-2018 at 11:48 AM..
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

10-17-2017, 02:07 PM	#2
ctuna Lieutenant General 2098 Rep 13,467 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	The basic system and Hi Fi are different Al least in the 2010 model 3 series in 2010. Your first step should be to verify exactly what you have. If you have no tweeters in the doors you have the base or stereo system and not Hi Fi. Also the Hi Fi will have an amp in the trunk . If you do have the Hi Fi only Technic Harness and a amp are necessary . If you have the base system which has no amp you need a more extensive Technic harness and a way to compensate for the tweeked eq curve coming out of the Head Unit or Idrive. A DSP can be used for this and it's also kind of nice to have for the control it gives you over the sound. So positively identify your sound system first. Helix amp/dsp combo's are popular now. BMW stereo types http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352586 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1266451970 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447 http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/pdf/e7...%20Systems.pdf http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138949 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323 http://bmwcoders.com/forum/3-er-8/bm...1-e92-e93-291/ http://technicpnp.com/menuDiagrams/d...e90_92_93.html http://www.musicarnw.com/page-2/ http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...3&d=1169133185 http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/BMW_docs/mostbus.pdf http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...4&d=1278871872 There is a small set of known speakers that fit in the stock locations. You need to use those or face a large amount of work that will likely make your car rattle, be a hassle to put in and look terrible. Why the doors are thin and there is little space to work with forward or back . The damm map holders cover the usable area . Jehnert door or fabbed door panels are necessary to add anything much bigger. Best System examples Logic 7 upgrades http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=826683 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590420 Base System Upgrades http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445266 http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634957 http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003810 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822366 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=581379 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451941 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540954 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=Dotech http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495855 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494299 http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...morel-jbl.html http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ht=amp+upgrade http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=550771 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1411521234 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1378833 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904 HI Fi upgrades http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=level http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540446 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...hlight=technic http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532585 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=833581 http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=443043 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324214 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...hlight=level+3 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ight=processor http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...&highlight=BSW http://www.bilstereoforum.se/showthread.php?t=2356 http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...creations.html Last edited by ctuna; 10-17-2017 at 02:17 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-17-2017, 03:23 PM	#3
vernors Private 5 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 2010 535i Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Troy, MI iTrader: (0)	Wow, thanks for all the links. I'm getting the car next month and will confirm which version I have. Hopefully it's the one with the amp in the rear, and not the version powered off the navigation system.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-17-2017, 04:42 PM	#4
ctuna Lieutenant General 2098 Rep 13,467 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	You can run one of the free online Vin checkers and it will print out the options.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-17-2017, 07:20 PM	#5
vernors Private 5 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 2010 535i Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Troy, MI iTrader: (0)	Just called the dealer as the Vin Checker didn't specify the system, but gave good info on other options. Apparently it's a CIC with the amp in the trunk....which sounds like the easiest one to upgrade...? Last edited by vernors; 10-17-2017 at 07:26 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-17-2017, 08:25 PM	#6
ctuna Lieutenant General 2098 Rep 13,467 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	You can run the vin yourself online and it will give you options either they are uninformed or are handing you some BS. If it has logic 7 its a pain to modify but most people will be satisfied with that one. The option used to be 676 for hi fi and 677 for Top Hi Fi which is logic 7 and the numbers (top hi fi changed to 688 in 2010 )and after. for it after that were similar. If it doesn't say hi fi or top hi fi in the Vin checker there is no amp . You should verify this your self don't take there word for it. https://www.bmwvin.com/ If Hi Fi or Top Hi Fi is not listed in the 6xx range you don't have an amp. You need to do your homework yourself. Until you know what you have for sure just read the links cause each of the three main system types require a slightly different approach. Last edited by ctuna; 10-20-2017 at 01:05 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-18-2017, 01:52 PM	#7
vernors Private 5 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 2010 535i Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Troy, MI iTrader: (0)	Looks like it's the HiFi system. Here are the results of that Vin check: S609A Navigation system Professional S615A Expanded BMW Online Information S620A Voice control S639A Preparation f mobile phone cpl. USA/CDN S645A BMW US Radio S653A High Definition Radio S655A Satellite tuner S676A HiFi speaker system S697A Area-Code 1 for DVD S6AAA BMW TeleServices S6ABA Control for Teleservices S6FLA USB/Audio interface
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-18-2017, 04:28 PM	#8
ctuna Lieutenant General 2098 Rep 13,467 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Ok you know what to look at now.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-18-2017, 05:31 PM	#9
vernors Private 5 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 2010 535i Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Troy, MI iTrader: (0)	Yep, thanks, this may be easier than expected. I think I'll be able to bypass the amp in the trunk using Technic's wiring harness....which I assume enables the aftermarket amp to get the signal from the factory harness and then allows me to plug back into the harness below the amp and directly to the speakers so that no cutting of the OEM harness is necessary. From what I've read this avoids the need for a DSP as that is something that is already done upstream. Am I thinking of this right? Thanks
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-18-2017, 10:09 PM	#10
ctuna Lieutenant General 2098 Rep 13,467 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Yes the Technic Hi Fi Harness makes and aftermarket amp install super simple. You just throw a lever on the old amp connector and it unplugs. Plus everything is labeled. http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...3&d=1329017429 You don't need DSP but it does some things that just and amp doesn't do like time delay and per channel eq. But just and amp and some good speakers can be awsome.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-18-2017, 11:57 PM	#11
ptpending Brigadier General 618 Rep 3,157 Posts Drives: e81 Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Poland iTrader: (1)	if you have HiFi system, then the best path to upgrade is start with bimmertech match 82ppdsp amplifier with plug and play harness it's a bit pricey but it give new life to your speakes after that you can swap the speakers __________________ E81 2007 130i 6cylinder Montego blue Retrofits: Harman Kardon, High-beam assistant, Removable tow hitch. Auto-dim folding exterior mirrors. Lumbar support. Perfomance Brakes.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-19-2017, 12:27 AM	#12
vernors Private 5 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 2010 535i Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Troy, MI iTrader: (0)	Interesting that the DSP features aren't available with just an amp swap and the wiring harness. I assume that is because the OEM amp handles all of the individual speaker adjustments through the fiberoptic connection...? If so, then I know exactly what I'm going to do. Will need a DSP converter because I'd like to keep all of the adjustable features offered through the factory system. Thanks for the info on the Match amp PT, but probably going to upgrade all speakers and will need more punch (75 watts @ 4 ohms minimum) because they are usually power hungry. I appreciate all the help and feedback. Makes planning and avoiding mistakes much simpler. Thanks.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-19-2017, 02:14 AM	#14
ctuna Lieutenant General 2098 Rep 13,467 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Although a DSP can make cheap speakers sound better there is no substitute for good speakers. If i had it to do again I would be looking at Helix V8 or 6 DSP.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-19-2017, 05:42 PM	#15
vernors Private 5 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 2010 535i Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Troy, MI iTrader: (0)	Ok, getting a bit confused here. Is the OEM BMW amp processing the digital signal from the radio/navigation? Or, is it acting merely as an amplifier and the signal it's receiving is analog? It sounds like it receives a digital format, which I assume means it comes through a fiber optic/TOS or something similar....? If that is the case, I then need to look at a DSP converter to output to an analog amp, or a single unit that is a DSP converter/Amp combined. I did look at the Match DSP/Amp, and since I'm going to be running Focal drivers 35 watts RMS isn't going to be enough power. These drivers, even though they are 4" have an RMS rating of 75 watts at 4 ohms. The audio set up planned is: Focal Front Components - (ES 100k, which I already have in current car) Focal Rear Components 2 SWS-8xi Mid bass Drivers - Probably need to run them on individual channels assuming they act in 'stereo'. Are they more mid bass drivers and tied to right and left channels? 1 JL Audio Sub - (12W7-AE3, already have in current car) JL Audio xd600v2 Punch 750 RMS (at 3 ohms) mono sub amp I've got a Helix amp right now (Dark Blue) but it's old school and much to big to sit next to or near existing amp. But, I do like Helix products and would consider their DSP. Still, the MoBridge looks to be significantly less expensive. But, again I'm not clear on if I need to add the DSP or not.....now that you all know where I'm headed...thoughts? Thanks.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-19-2017, 06:17 PM	#16
ctuna Lieutenant General 2098 Rep 13,467 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Its just a Head Unit it has a certain amount of eq as does anything(simple bass and treble controls on Hi Fi) the factory eq is pretty decent if you just want to add and amp plenty of people have done that. In its three different programmable configurations BMW overtweeked(stereo system no amp) the high end to compensate for cheaping out on no tweeters but you are not interested in that. In the configuration you have Hi Fi most people just added and amp and some good speakers and the results are way better than the stock system even the L7. If you want the ultimate system then get some really good speakers and a DSP/amp this allows you to get the last bit out of the speakers and the acoustics in the car if you have the ability , time and patience to tune a DSP. There was no DSP at one time yet people made awsome systems with just a good speakers and amps. The new Helix amp/DSP are amps and a DSP combined and they are not large because of new Tech and class D technology. http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/lng/en/pp-82dsp.html http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/lng/en/v-eight-dsp.html http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/lng/e...x-dsp-mk2.html You would use one of these and your sub and sub amp If you use a dedicated sub you would be better of using a mid bass underseat. SWS is more of a sub than mid bass. Last edited by ctuna; 10-20-2017 at 01:08 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-19-2017, 06:46 PM	#17
vernors Private 5 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 2010 535i Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Troy, MI iTrader: (0)	Great, I'm starting to understand this better. From a cost perspective it makes more sense to go with one of the Helix DSP/Amp combinations, than spend $400 for a Mobridge and another $400 or so for a JL 6 channel. Do you by chance know if the system configurations through iDrive (time delay, eq, etc) will be communicated to the Helix (or another DSP) or would I have to manually change settings on the Helix unit? I don't doubt frequency response, etc will need to be done on the dsp/amp, but some communication with the head unit of the Hifi system would be preferred. In looking around, I also see DSP/Amp combinations by AudioControl and Kenwood... Yep, your suggestion of DSP/Amp out to 6 main speakers plus the mono amp to sub makes sense to me.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-19-2017, 08:17 PM	#18
ctuna Lieutenant General 2098 Rep 13,467 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	If you have Hi Fi there are only simple bass and treble controls doen't matter if its idrive or pro radio as far as I know. The thing about the Helix is it appears to be more advanced and well supported.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-20-2017, 11:51 AM	#20
ctuna Lieutenant General 2098 Rep 13,467 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Also 6spdcoupe reps some of the best products for your car you might want to contact him about a package. Which include Helix , Jehnert and others. Contact him at his web site google Unexpected Creations. There are diagrams and all the info you need in the links I put up you just need to read it. Setting up a DSP is a long process sometimes you can find some canned DSP files that can get you in the Ballpark other wise there is this 14 part series on y tube. look the rest of them up. Last edited by ctuna; 10-20-2017 at 12:01 PM..
	Appreciate 1 6spdcoupe205.00 Quote

10-20-2017, 12:04 PM	#22
ctuna Lieutenant General 2098 Rep 13,467 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	You are confusing systems as it was said and if you read the links only the Logic 7 amp uses a Fiberoptic interface(whixh is where Mobridge comes in Fiberoptic only interface for Logic 7 amp with a head unit programmed for logic 7) but the other two systems are analog . This is in all the links you are not reading deep enough. There are some block diagrams of the Logic 7 amp and the Hi fi amp in the first links I gave you. In addition to Time delay DSP has really fine eq adjustments on all kinds of filters to control the sound on a per channel basis. No time delay or per channel eq on any of the BMW systems that is user programmable. Last edited by ctuna; 10-20-2017 at 12:16 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote