[M-Nuts]

I'm in the market for a Porsche 911, was looking initially at a new Carrera or Carrera S
The only car the dealer had on the lot was a 4S model with manual transmission, and I got to test drive it on short loop that included a nice twisty stretch, the car definitely left me underwhelmed and wanting more, felt like the steering is vague with no feel and the car doesn't want to rotate, I currently own a Honda S2000 and a BMW M4 and the 4S driving experience was muted and dull compared to the 2 cars I own, the steering is inferior to both the S2000 and the M4, the Carrera engine felt lazy, rubbery and lacks response compared to the M4 and the S2000 (we are not talking horsepower or toque)
So what am I missing here? is it the 4 wheel drive system that made the car lose the steering feel or the turbo charged engine or the electronic steering assist or all of the above?
It was a short test drive but I usually get a good feel of a car even for a short drive, the sales guy was nice enough and let me rev it up and push hard. Stock is kinda limited at Porsche dealers where I live, and they are usually grumpy about test drives, so I would like to narrow it down to one model before I make another trip to a dealer.
I know the 911 should be great, was expecting something as sharp as the Honda S2000 but with a lot more power, but that wasn't the case.
Any one had a similar experience? I prefer to buy new, but I'm open to pre-owned, was thinking maybe older non turbo charged rear wheel drive Carrera would be what I'm looking for? maybe even a 997 with the hydraulic steering?
Not looking for tons of power or torque, I need a 911 with sharp response that is enjoyable to drive.
for those who owned or driven 911s I really appreciate your opinion and input
Thanks!

[RABAUKE]

I'll start by saying I've not driven an M4 but if I recall they are pretty quick and a bit twitchy. I've owned a 996 about 10 years ago, and my wife and I really enjoyed the car. 300Hp, was pretty quick and quite well sorted. I kept it for a few years but I couldn't get past the soft looks compared to what I think a Porsche should look like. That and the headlights. My other complaint, and this sounds like a first world problem was the thing was a great drive, no drama. It stopped better than it accelerated, and it was pretty quick. It was also like driving my Volvo wagon. Smooth, planted but not thrilling. 180Kmh, sipping a latte kind of boring almost.

I ended up with a Factory Five Cobra for a while and then my Z4MC, which is more severe than the Porsche was, and which I am just in the process of swapping for a 993 C2.

These cars are weekend drivers for me, I've always loved the old air cooled Porsches. My view is that Porsche was all about sports cars the way Ferrari is. BMW builds great cars, but sports cars is an after thought to them, like most manufacturers.

I was actually waffling between a 997 and the 993. The 997 has great creature comforts, handled great and is something, more of a Grand Tourer than a sports car in my view. I think Porsche has lost its way in some respects when they went to the 996 and SUV's.

If you really want a new Porsche and want the Porsche experience, I'd go for a GT2 or GT3 or at least a 911 S rather than the 4S. Or go Old school, and go air-cooled. Won't be as fast as your M4, but it will be the real deal.

Hope this helps, just my two cents. Here's my soon to be delivered 993.

[Red Bread]

That's really weird. I sent that picture to a friend yesterday trying to convince him to get a 993 instead of an F Type. I remember wondering who or what a Pfaff was.

Congrats on one of my favorite cars. The sounds, the smells and the little things like the door hinges are just awesome and nothing any modern car quite captures.

[Viffermike]

Dynamically, a four-wheel-drive car is simply not going to rotate with the same driving input as a RWD car -- particularly one with a rear-mounted engine that i already predisposed to oversteer naturally. That's part and parcel to why Porsche has subscribed to AWD to help cure (OK, maybe not cure, but definitely mitigate) the 911 of its major handling bugaboo.

To wit, I test drove a 991.1 911 Carrera while I was Porsche shopping a few months ago (See my sig for what I ended up with). Hanging the tail out on that car was really, really easy. I mean, REALLY easy.

Also keep in mind that most of Porsche's flax-sixes really need to be revved to break the rear loose. Your M4 does not, and the S2K is really a different beast entirely regarding chassis dynamics, weight distribution, electro-hydraulic steering system (weight on the front axle = feel, vs. weight off of it = less feel), and more. Porsche puts those wide-ass rear tires on 911s (with, I might add, some very drastic camber/caster settings for a road car) for the same reason it prefers AWD as an alternative drivetrain: to tame that natural oversteer.

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

That's really weird. I sent that picture to a friend yesterday trying to convince him to get a 993 instead of an F Type. I remember wondering who or what a Pfaff was.

Congrats on one of my favorite cars. The sounds, the smells and the little things like the door hinges are just awesome and nothing any modern car quite captures.

Thanks, I'm pretty pumped. Pfaff is the dealership, the sales guy tells me they are the biggest dealer in North America, says they sell 2000 cars a year.

Anyway, I have always loved the look of the older 911's but just can't take my eyes off the 993. Here's another.

[BEM-S4]

If you can swing the $100K and don't need the 911 for non-driving reasons (looks, ego, etc.), check out a GT4. Just spent some time in my cousin's, assuming your name isn't Hamilton or Verstappen you cannot possibly need more car than that.

[hi_officer]

Interesting, when I had my M4 I thought the steering was muted and rubbery relative to the 911. M4 also felt bigger even tho the 911 is pretty big these days. This was the NA 991.1 tho, not sure about the turbo'd 911s. Did it have rear wheel steer?

[Blindside]

The AWD system is why you're feeling the lack of rotation and understeer.

[M-Nuts]

Thanks guys for the replies, I know there are cars out there with better driving dynamics for same price as the 911, but for me a 911 is more of a childhood dream, I definitely want 991.2 GT3 but with the current market, long wait lists and ridiculous mark up I started thinking of a Carrera.
would a 991.1 or 997 Carrera S feel more of a sports car compared to the 991.2 Carrera 4S?

[M-Nuts]

Originally Posted by hi_officer

Interesting, when I had my M4 I thought the steering was muted and rubbery relative to the 911. M4 also felt bigger even tho the 911 is pretty big these days. This was the NA 991.1 tho, not sure about the turbo'd 911s. Did it have rear wheel steer?

Honestly that's what I was hoping for the Carrera 4S to be, the M4 feels big and heavy but when you step on it turns well and feels smaller and more nimble, that wasn't the case with the 4S.

[M-Nuts]

I wonder how much of an impact the turbo has on the 991.2 engine?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by M-Nuts

Thanks guys for the replies, I know there are cars out there with better driving dynamics for same price as the 911, but for me a 911 is more of a childhood dream, I definitely want 991.2 GT3 but with the current market, long wait lists and ridiculous mark up I started thinking of a Carrera.
would a 991.1 or 997 Carrera S feel more of a sports car compared to the 991.2 Carrera 4S?

Basically, the older the 911, the closer in feel it will have to the air-cooled originals ... and automatically nix any AWD version if you want it to feel even remotely like a vintage 911.

The 911 was my dream car as well. Note that I chose a 718 instead.

[Flyingscotsman]

GTS?
http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/187...ew-carrera-yet

[rymerc]

Originally Posted by M-Nuts

was expecting something as sharp as the Honda S2000 but with a lot more power, but that wasn't the case.

Sounds like you're looking for a gt3/gt4, not the 4-season neutered-for-the-masses touring car you can drive anywhere, anytime in comfort. The stock alignment on modern porsches is terribly conservative, ditch that first.

If you can't afford a GT3/4 I'd suggest you consider getting a 2009+ 911 or cayman and adding parts to suit your taste. Or go to a local autox or HPDE and see about a ride along, if you're nice enough someone might even let you take a lap.

If you haven't driven a rear-engined car before, completely different dynamics to f/r and it will take some relearning. Good luck on your search.

[BEM-S4]

Fully aware the Porsche purists are going to destroy me, but depending on your goals for the car I?d actually consider a 996. Say for instance you just want to scratch that 911 itch, want something to beat the hell out of on weekends but don?t care about lap times, etc.

You can find a really nice one for under $40k drive it and not worry about messing up some investment grade air cooled car and basically get your money back in a year or two.

[hi_officer]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Fully aware the Porsche purists are going to destroy me, but depending on your goals for the car I?d actually consider a 996. Say for instance you just want to scratch that 911 itch, want something to beat the hell out of on weekends but don?t care about lap times, etc.

You can find a really nice one for under $40k drive it and not worry about messing up some investment grade air cooled car and basically get your money back in a year or two.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by hi_officer

Ha keep em coming! I know compared to many (perhaps all) 911s that?s the ugly step child and the Porsche purists puke all over it.

That said it?s a lot of fun for a shoestring budget.

[M-Nuts]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Fully aware the Porsche purists are going to destroy me, but depending on your goals for the car I?d actually consider a 996. Say for instance you just want to scratch that 911 itch, want something to beat the hell out of on weekends but don?t care about lap times, etc.

You can find a really nice one for under $40k drive it and not worry about messing up some investment grade air cooled car and basically get your money back in a year or two.

I'm with you on this one, but that front end is a hard pill to swallow though

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by M-Nuts

I'm with you on this one, but that front end is a hard pill to swallow though

Wonder if there?s a conversion kit. But yeah I get it. It?s not a good look but I could get over it under the right set of circumstances.

[mremg]

I don't think any brand new car sold today is going to match the S2000 in terms of it's high strung visceral experience.

If three pedals isn't a requirement I would suggest the Alfa 4C. If you are set on a P-car, GT4 is probably the one (I never drove one, so I'm just telling you based on car rags).

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by mremg

I don't think any brand new car sold today is going to match the S2000 in terms of it's high strung visceral experience.

If three pedals isn't a requirement I would suggest the Alfa 4C. If you are set on a P-car, GT4 is probably the one (I never drove one, so I'm just telling you based on car rags).

The GT4 is a special car. The Cayman architecture just has inherent advantages vs a 911. The 911 has the fun factor but it can not overcome the physics and weight dynamics of the layout.

[M-Nuts]

How would a 991 GT3 stack up against an S2000? (horsepower/torque aside)
is it as sharp and responsive to drive?