[W12x]

I will keep the E92 M3 for a long time but I'm probably not going to buy another BMW. Unless they make something fun like the E86 Z4M Coupe, the new M3/4 are nice and fast but doesn't seem that unique anymore, plus way too many non-Ms have 4 cylinder engines now...

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by W12x

I will keep the E92 M3 for a long time but I'm probably not going to buy another BMW. Unless they make something fun like the E86 Z4M Coupe, the new M3/4 are nice and fast but doesn't seem that unique anymore, plus way too many non-Ms have 4 cylinder engines now...

The M3/M4 are dime a dozen now unfortunately.

When I had a 2011 M3.. it was rare to see one, so whenever you went to a car meet or out in public. People got giddy seeing one!

Now, while it's still special.. the disparity between 440i/435i M-Sports and M4 is SO much closer, it took value away from the M brand.

Mercedes: It's still special to see an AMG, although they do look ALSO very similar to non-AMG counterparts.. the german company still making super special cars is Porsche it seems. Mercedes I'd say is leading the charge with twin turbo V8's in every AMG car plus they have the lovely AMG GT model (gorgeous).

[Germanauto]

Whatever...

BMWs aren't even fun to drive anymore, there's no reason to return to the brand.

Porsche, Jaguar, etc. are making far cooler cars that are more entertaining to drive. Hello there Boxster/Cayman and F-type.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by W12x

I will keep the E92 M3 for a long time but I'm probably not going to buy another BMW. Unless they make something fun like the E86 Z4M Coupe, the new M3/4 are nice and fast but doesn't seem that unique anymore, plus way too many non-Ms have 4 cylinder engines now...

The M3/4 are fast and very capable, but are just too refined and isolated for any old school BMW aficianados. Once the E89 Z4 and F platform models came the brand went down the toilet.

Unfortunately I'm gonna have to move on from my E90 sometime soon. It's in mint condition cosmetically and the steering gives me smiles every time I'm behind the wheel, but maintenance costs are creeping up and it will no longer play my damn music from my iPhone. It is truly one of the last great BMWs...

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

The M3/M4 are dime a dozen now unfortunately.

When I had a 2011 M3.. it was rare to see one, so whenever you went to a car meet or out in public. People got giddy seeing one!

Now, while it's still special.. the disparity between 440i/435i M-Sports and M4 is SO much closer, it took value away from the M brand.

Mercedes: It's still special to see an AMG, although they do look ALSO very similar to non-AMG counterparts.. the german company still making super special cars is Porsche it seems. Mercedes I'd say is leading the charge with twin turbo V8's in every AMG car plus they have the lovely AMG GT model (gorgeous).

I see way more soccer mommies in Cayenne's then I do REAL ///Ms on the road. Just saying.

Porsche isn't that special.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Whatever...

BMWs aren't even fun to drive anymore, there's no reason to return to the brand.

Porsche, Jaguar, etc. are making far cooler cars that are more entertaining to drive. Hello there Boxster/Cayman and F-type.

Porsches are a dime a dozen. See my post above

Your on to something with the F-Type. That is one sick looking ride.

When my M4 lease is up I'm gonna check one out. The downside is no ED

[adc]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

The M3/M4 are dime a dozen now unfortunately.

When I had a 2011 M3.. it was rare to see one, so whenever you went to a car meet or out in public. People got giddy seeing one!

Now, while it's still special.. the disparity between 440i/435i M-Sports and M4 is SO much closer, it took value away from the M brand.

Mercedes: It's still special to see an AMG, although they do look ALSO very similar to non-AMG counterparts.. the german company still making super special cars is Porsche it seems. Mercedes I'd say is leading the charge with twin turbo V8's in every AMG car plus they have the lovely AMG GT model (gorgeous).

You forgot the 4 cylinder AMGs. And the 6 cylinder AMGs.

The disparity between a 440i M Sport and M4 is just as big as it was between the E92 M3 and 335is. I’ve driven all and owned the Ms.

Maybe in Oregon the E92 M3 was rare; here in the DC area they were just as common as the E46 or F80 variations. Nobody bats an eye over an M3, and if that is the reason you are buying it then you totally missed the point.

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Whatever...

BMWs aren't even fun to drive anymore, there's no reason to return to the brand.

Porsche, Jaguar, etc. are making far cooler cars that are more entertaining to drive. Hello there Boxster/Cayman and F-type.

I cannot argue with the word “cool”, it is highly dependent on personal taste. Some Porsche models are cool and fun to drive in my opinion, but not all.

But I wouldn’t swap my F80 for a Cayman S. The M3 has actually more lively dynamics and a more entertaining character IMO, I’ve always been of the opinion that Boxsters and Caymans have too much grip for their own good.

The F type is small and cramped, yet weighs as much or more as an M3. It looks very James Bond, but you can have it in only two variants: either too slow to be entertaining, or waaay too powerful for the chassis to handle. A medium spicy model might make the sweet spot. I’d never consider one over a Porsche.


It is still very hard to beat an M3/4 for the combination of price, practicality and fun. To do that you may actually have to look at some of the recent American efforts, unless you are a snob.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Porsches are a dime a dozen. See my post above

Your on to something with the F-Type. That is one sick looking ride.

When my M4 lease is up I'm gonna check one out. The downside is no ED

Yeah Porsches aren't as flashy as the F-type or even say a Yas Marina M4. But with the right colors and wheels they draw eyes.

[RABAUKE]

I have mixed feelings about parting with the Z4MC, but have coveted the 993 since they were new. My wife is encouraging the uptick in price. I know what you mean about BMW, the Z4MC has been a great car and very unique. I've always loved the P car though, primarily because they primarily make sports cars.

[NickyC]

If you want something FUN, still looks good despite its age, and is an absolute bargain these days.....look no further. Just be sure to get your own. ;D

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Porsches are a dime a dozen. See my post above

Your on to something with the F-Type. That is one sick looking ride.

When my M4 lease is up I'm gonna check one out. The downside is no ED

I had a 16' F-Type R. Lovely car, but mine was a lemon unfortunately. Bad batch for me I guess.

Originally Posted by adc

You forgot the 4 cylinder AMGs. And the 6 cylinder AMGs.

The disparity between a 440i M Sport and M4 is just as big as it was between the E92 M3 and 335is. I’ve driven all and owned the Ms.

Maybe in Oregon the E92 M3 was rare; here in the DC area they were just as common as the E46 or F80 variations. Nobody bats an eye over an M3, and if that is the reason you are buying it then you totally missed the point.



I cannot argue with the word “cool”, it is highly dependent on personal taste. Some Porsche models are cool and fun to drive in my opinion, but not all.

But I wouldn’t swap my F80 for a Cayman S. The M3 has actually more lively dynamics and a more entertaining character IMO, I’ve always been of the opinion that Boxsters and Caymans have too much grip for their own good.

The F type is small and cramped, yet weighs as much or more as an M3. It looks very James Bond, but you can have it in only two variants: either too slow to be entertaining, or waaay too powerful for the chassis to handle. A medium spicy model might make the sweet spot. I’d never consider one over a Porsche.


It is still very hard to beat an M3/4 for the combination of price, practicality and fun. To do that you may actually have to look at some of the recent American efforts, unless you are a snob.

There is no thing as too much traction!


Also as an owner of an F-Type R: It's a lot more capable than the F80 M3.. because they come AWD now. I'm well aware of the price difference, but I know a lot of people who own M3/M4's because of the low lease payment, which is easily attained with 50k more expensive F-Type R with regards to leasing. (Some guy got a SVR for 144k, for 750 a month)
This was a stock 1/4 time for my F-Type R. The 2015 F-Type R is probably the one you are referring to.

4-cylinder/6-cylinder AMG's make the standard M-Sport 340i/440i feel plain from an drivers point of view. Just a wheel and different bumpers for M-Sport packages.

I too, have owned every M from 2009 onwards (SUV's included) and yeah, they are getting boring. The M4 I had I only lasted about 8,000 miles before I had enough. It's not that good of a car. It's fun to drive slow, but the second you want to take off, it's spin city. My friends 650whp Supra hooked better on Michelin SS from 30mph. I had a 15' so maybe they are better now with ZCP and whatnot, but it's still not all that good. Neither is the RS5, or the C63 (overpriced for what it is). But if money was no object and I wanted a sedan, I'd say I'd go C63 everyday. But if I'm spending 110k+, I'd rather stick to sports car.

About the E92 M3 making people bat an eye, I don't think you understood. I'm talking about it being special in a sea of Priuses and other cars back in 2008. This was the time where M-Sport didn't exist and M's stuck out. Also don't get me started on N/A highrevving V8 vs. garbage disposal inline 6 S55 motors currently. (I also had a 09' M3, but my 11' was my favorite). That was 7-8 years ago, now M3/M4's are my city are everywhere. It's because they weren't attainable with easy to pay leases back in 2009 and now that leasing is so cheap for these cars (excluding 18's), everyone and their mom could pick one up for 100$ more than a 60 month Minivan payment.

[REDEV217342]

Here is the latest modern day BMW M.

[NickyC]

^ LOL, spot on.

[REDEV217342]

Originally Posted by NickyC

^ LOL, spot on.

If I had to choose today.....this would be in my garage

[Unknown_Car]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I see way more soccer mommies in Cayenne's then I do REAL ///Ms on the road. Just saying.

Porsche isn't that special.

I agree. Only gt3-4 is special nothing else. And that's for who likes them. Me personally i dont like porschea, they are to similar to vw/audi this days, and use the same motors most of them. Just like honda/acura Toyota/lexus infinity/nissan. Nothing special just dresset up and charge 20k more.

[Kief]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

I had a 16' F-Type R. Lovely car, but mine was a lemon unfortunately. Bad batch for me I guess.

Curious what happened?

I went from an '15 M4-->'16 Ftype R-->'17 M3ZCP-->now back to a '17 Ftype R within the last 3 yrs.

Last I recall you were trying to lease transfer your R

[Efthreeoh]

I know that I get shit for touting Cadillacs, but if you want to get a decent driver's car that you don't see everywhere, the ATS-V or CTS-V are great cars to get. The magazines shit on them for the CUE system, gauges, small glass area (), and the mix/match of interior materials. But as far as driving, they out rank the M cars in almost every comparo test I've read. All the BS that the chide Cadillac for have nothing to do with the experience of driving the actual car.

My 2 cents.

The F-type is pure sex IMO. I'd love to have one.

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by Kief

Curious what happened?

I went from an '15 M4-->'16 Ftype R-->'17 M3ZCP-->now back to a '17 Ftype R within the last 3 yrs.

Last I recall you were trying to lease transfer your R

Motor blown, supercharger blown, wheel bearings. 60 days in the shop. Lemon'd now.

Loved the car, but taking this as a call to try something new.
What made you go to M4 and then back again?

Im going either used Huracan/AMG GTS or used gen 2 R8 V10 after this.

[adc]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

I had a 16' F-Type R. Lovely car, but mine was a lemon unfortunately. Bad batch for me I guess.








There is no thing as too much traction!


Also as an owner of an F-Type R: It's a lot more capable than the F80 M3.. because they come AWD now. I'm well aware of the price difference, but I know a lot of people who own M3/M4's because of the low lease payment, which is easily attained with 50k more expensive F-Type R with regards to leasing. (Some guy got a SVR for 144k, for 750 a month)
This was a stock 1/4 time for my F-Type R. The 2015 F-Type R is probably the one you are referring to.

4-cylinder/6-cylinder AMG's make the standard M-Sport 340i/440i feel plain from an drivers point of view. Just a wheel and different bumpers for M-Sport packages.

I too, have owned every M from 2009 onwards (SUV's included) and yeah, they are getting boring. The M4 I had I only lasted about 8,000 miles before I had enough. It's not that good of a car. It's fun to drive slow, but the second you want to take off, it's spin city. My friends 650whp Supra hooked better on Michelin SS from 30mph. I had a 15' so maybe they are better now with ZCP and whatnot, but it's still not all that good. Neither is the RS5, or the C63 (overpriced for what it is). But if money was no object and I wanted a sedan, I'd say I'd go C63 everyday. But if I'm spending 110k+, I'd rather stick to sports car.

About the E92 M3 making people bat an eye, I don't think you understood. I'm talking about it being special in a sea of Priuses and other cars back in 2008. This was the time where M-Sport didn't exist and M's stuck out. Also don't get me started on N/A highrevving V8 vs. garbage disposal inline 6 S55 motors currently. (I also had a 09' M3, but my 11' was my favorite). That was 7-8 years ago, now M3/M4's are my city are everywhere. It's because they weren't attainable with easy to pay leases back in 2009 and now that leasing is so cheap for these cars (excluding 18's), everyone and their mom could pick one up for 100$ more than a 60 month Minivan payment.

You’re showing me a drag strip time slip to argue that the Jag F Type R is more capable than an F80. Point taken, 500+ BHP beats 400, but I’ve never raced on the dragstrip and never will, it’s way too boring.

I get my kicks on the track doing HPDEs, where an F type would not have an advantage, and that is before we take into consideration the potential fragility issues.

I love the F type for its looks and sound, but if I were to shop in that price bracket looking for a 2 seater, I think I’d pick an AMG GTS or 911 GT3 easily.


You can easily increase traction on an M3/4, just add bigger tires. Going from 275 to 305 or 315 rears makes a big difference. Me personally I like the sliding, adjustable nature of the car and only want to maximize traction while on track, where more Gs usually means more fun. On the street though, it’s the opposite for me.

The F80 does sound mediocre though. If you’re charitable.

[Kief]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

Motor blown, supercharger blown, wheel bearings. 60 days in the shop. Lemon'd now.

Loved the car, but taking this as a call to try something new.
What made you go to M4 and then back again?

Im going either used Huracan/AMG GTS or used gen 2 R8 V10 after this.

Bc I'm a BMW fan boy! For some reason the chronological order of the pics didn't work out!

What was the cause of your blown engine, and were the other events as a result or subsequent events? I recall you asking us over on the Jag forum right after you had taken delivery about blue smoke from your exhaust, was this related? There was another guy over on the forum who blew his engine due to oil starvation, you would be number 2. Did you post about you experience over there?

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by adc

You’re showing me a drag strip time slip to argue that the Jag F Type R is more capable than an F80. Point taken, 500+ BHP beats 400, but I’ve never raced on the dragstrip and never will, it’s way too boring.

I get my kicks on the track doing HPDEs, where an F type would not have an advantage, and that is before we take into consideration the potential fragility issues.

I love the F type for its looks and sound, but if I were to shop in that price bracket looking for a 2 seater, I think I’d pick an AMG GTS or 911 GT3 easily.


You can easily increase traction on an M3/4, just add bigger tires. Going from 275 to 305 or 315 rears makes a big difference. Me personally I like the sliding, adjustable nature of the car and only want to maximize traction while on track, where more Gs usually means more fun. On the street though, it’s the opposite for me.

The F80 does sound mediocre though. If you’re charitable.

That sounds like the opinion of something who hasnt driven an F-Type R to know the difference, so forgive me for saying that. As an owner of both cars I can directly correlate the difference between the two, and I'll let you know there definitely is a huge difference in performance.. on and off track. Which the extra 30-40k price tag does buy you as well as looks, sound and what have you. It's funny you say that about the GT3 since I owned a 14' and its motor blew when I was driving home leisurely. Luckily I was one of the first buyers and offloaded it as soon as I could.

I see about changing up the tires for a more fun experience, but it's novelty (at least for me) wears quite thin real quick. I had an F10 M5 and while I loved the dual natured vibes of comfort and speed. It's never fun to step on it at 30mph and be slower than a E46 M3 to highway speeds just because the car can't put any power down. F8x platform is a kind of car that doesn't do anything really all that well, but does do them all. A mile wide yet only an inch deep. It's not focused like an F-Type (fast/sexy for under 110k), or GT3 (track weapon), or Z06 (brute power).

An F8X really is just a modded 3-series when it comes down to it.

Originally Posted by Kief

Bc I'm a BMW fan boy! For some reason the chronological order of the pics didn't work out!

What was the cause of your blown engine, and were the other events as a result or subsequent events? I recall you asking us over on the Jag forum right after you had taken delivery about blue smoke from your exhaust, was this related? There was another guy over on the forum who blew his engine due to oil starvation, you would be number 2. Did you post about you experience over there?

Actually, it was oil starvation! I heard a knock from the motor (which of course the shop foreman told me it's supercharger belt slap.. Sure...) and what do you know, they replace S/C and the noise is there still. 2nd thing, they go to replace the motor finally and then say "it doesn't look like you have changed the oil, since there was NO oil in the car" "the engine bill might have to be covered by you since Jaguar thinks it wasn't maintained"... wow, what a scare that was. But no, they approved it and replaced it. It's been in the shop since 9/5.. still haven't seen the car. I think when I filed for lemon law, they are just fixing absolutely everything now. Since they put the motor in, they have replaced something with crossbolts (holds the motor or something), wheel bearings, brake pads, exhaust system, C02 sensor and a bunch of other stuff. I think once I filed, they probably had a higher-up probably call and say "Fix everything since it's going to be a lemon" LOL.

I didn't post about it, since I just wanted to move on to the next car. It also slipped my mind haha!

[Never_Enough]

Nothing BMW now makes excites me