Menzerna IP and orange pad, unsuccessful at removing swirls on JB Audi S4

Neema · 05-20-2008, 11:21 PM

I used a porter cable 7424 with the rpm's set at 4, worked in very slow figure 8 motions with medium pressure using an orange LC pad and menzerna IP on an 05 audi S4, a jet black one. We removed some of the swirls, but nothing near the results that I get on using the same method and product on my 335.

Perhaps audi paint is harder?

mjd · 05-21-2008, 12:47 AM

Boost, perhaps just adjusting technique.... here's a reply from George (Deatailed Image) in response to a similar question I had using Menzerna FPII and not getting out the all the swirls I used to get out before (I also had more and perhaps deeper swirls after a winter of waterless washes). When he says "up the speed", i was already using 5 on a PC 7424. His suggestion worked for me and I ended up not having to "step up" to IP and an orange pad... hope it helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detailed Image

For the swirls and imperfections that remain on your paint, I'd first try upping the speed and pressure first to see if that improves your results. Also, shrink your working area and make more passes over each part of the paint. For example, if you were working in 2' x 2' area, try a 12" x 12" area instead. Move the buffer at 1" per second and apply ~15lbs of pressure to the head of the buffer (if it bogs down, back off until it doesn't). Try to pass over each part of the 12" x 12" area at least 6 - 8 times before moving onto the next area. If that isn't giving you better results, consider moving up to Menzerna Intensive Polish with an orange light cutting pad for some more bite.

George

turbojet3 · 05-21-2008, 10:31 AM

I think Audi and VW have much harder clear than our E92's.

HPIA4v2 · 05-21-2008, 10:40 AM

I am noob when it comes to polishing, just been reading all over.

I wonder if your Audi is older and has more intense oxidation/swirl etc compare to 335, so PP106F(light-medium abrasiveness) will be better on the Audi compare to PFII(light abarasiveness).

I'll try my Flex and 106F on 97 Audi so we'll see. I am using it as a test car before mooving to my newer cars.

JOYRIIDE1113 · 05-21-2008, 10:43 AM

Audis have really hard clearcoat. 3rd actually, right under MB ceramiclear paint and GM Corvettes

Raz335 · 05-21-2008, 11:42 AM

Yup, Audi's have very hard Clear coats. If using a PC, you need to use an aggressive pad and polish and have the speed turned up to max (I forget if max is 5 or 6). And make sure you work the polish in until completely broken down. Generally about 3 minutes on a 2ft x 2ft area.

JOYRIIDE1113 · 05-21-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raz335

Yup, Audi's have very hard Clear coats. If using a PC, you need to use an aggressive pad and polish and have the speed turned up to max (I forget if max is 5 or 6). And make sure you work the polish in until completely broken down. Generally about 3 minutes on a 2ft x 2ft area.

2'x2' is too big of a working area for a PC. I would go for 12-15' square ft area and move the pc at 1'' per second making atleast 4-6 overlapping (or until it being to run clear) up and down, side to side passes. I haven't used a PC in like 3 years but definately remember how to take the most advantage of it.

haper · 05-21-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOYRIIDE1113

Audis have really hard clearcoat. 3rd actually, right under MB ceramiclear paint and GM Corvettes

is there a list somewhere ?

and what are the advantages / disadvantages of clearcoat traits ? is it only that soft scratches easily yet is easier to correct ?

what type of ClearCoat would you look for in a new car purchase, assuming all else is equal ?

328i · 05-21-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haper

is there a list somewhere ?

and what are the advantages / disadvantages of clearcoat traits ? is it only that soft scratches easily yet is easier to correct ?

what type of ClearCoat would you look for in a new car purchase, assuming all else is equal ?

There's no list because paint can vary from car to car depending on when it was produced, repaints, and other variables.

Also, hardness can vary depending on the color, which is true for the new bmw paints.

A hard clearcoat is great if well maintained, and can be a nightmare to correct if it gets neglected. However finishing without hollograms or without inflicting marring is much easier on a harder clear.

A soft clear on the other hand may be easy to correct but finishing hollogram free can be a challange, and washing must be done with great care to avoid marring.

In my family we have my very soft jetblack e90, and my father has a Mercedes with Ceramic clear which I regularly wash. After almost a year that paint is still flawless, with no wash inflicted marring that I can see. My car on the other hand seems to attract swirls even with careful washing, even some of the softest microfibers can mar it if you're not careful and it's very aggravating to work with.

Neema · 05-21-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 328i

There's no list because paint can vary from car to car depending on when it was produced, repaints, and other variables.

Also, hardness can vary depending on the color, which is true for the new bmw paints.

A hard clearcoat is great if well maintained, and can be a nightmare to correct if it gets neglected. However finishing without hollograms or without inflicting marring is much easier on a harder clear.

A soft clear on the other hand may be easy to correct but finishing hollogram free can be a challange, and washing must be done with great care to avoid marring.

In my family we have my very soft jetblack e90, and my father has a Mercedes with Ceramic clear which I regularly wash. After almost a year that paint is still flawless, with no wash inflicted marring that I can see. My car on the other hand seems to attract swirls even with careful washing, even some of the softest microfibers can mar it if you're not careful and it's very aggravating to work with.

I definitely feel you on that one. . . . . it's like even looking at it will scratch it.

TRICKE90 · 05-21-2008, 10:36 PM

The clearcoat on my '08 Montego Blue is so soft that if rub against the paint (with sweat pants) while cleaning my windows it will scratch the clearcoat.

328i · 05-22-2008, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

I definitely feel you on that one. . . . . it's like even looking at it will scratch it.

Atleast you have sapphire black, I have jet black which is just terrible.

HPIA4v2 · 05-25-2008, 02:31 AM

Well, got to try my Flex3401 on old Audi pearl-white.
First, the 106FF is rather mild for this old paint with some "scars", web-haze and light-swirls melt away with ease, leaving mirror like finish (I use LC orange pad) but the deeper straight scratch still visible under halogen light.
I tried to spray the pads with distilled water to extend the work time and move slower (with more presssure) but no go. Yes it helps but some lines still visible.

Wish had SIP polish with yellow pads on hand, being noob I over estimate how good the condition of the paint was.
I applied glaze for now to hide it.

George, the flex is dream and rather quite (my dog laid 10 feet away in the garage while I was working on speed 6, wow).
Will probably order pads and SIP soon, BTW I like the double plush MF.

Detailed Image · 05-25-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

Well, got to try my Flex3401 on old Audi pearl-white.
First, the 106FF is rather mild for this old paint with some "scars", web-haze and light-swirls melt away with ease, leaving mirror like finish (I use LC orange pad) but the deeper straight scratch still visible under halogen light.
I tried to spray the pads with distilled water to extend the work time and move slower (with more presssure) but no go. Yes it helps but some lines still visible.

Wish had SIP polish with yellow pads on hand, being noob I over estimate how good the condition of the paint was.
I applied glaze for now to hide it.

George, the flex is dream and rather quite (my dog laid 10 feet away in the garage while I was working on speed 6, wow).
Will probably order pads and SIP soon, BTW I like the double plush MF.

Sounds great, glad to hear your enjoying your new products.

PO106FF is still relatively mild in the grand scheme of things. As you said SIP would be the next logical jump. I'd probably start off with SIP and an orange pad before jumping right to the yellow, unless your positive that the SIP/orange combo won't put a dent in the imperfections. Next step above SIP would be Power Gloss.

Back on topic, certain clear coats are especially harder than others. I had a B5 Audi S4 and I can say first hand, a PC did almost nothing for it, very hard clear coats. Follow Joy's and AoshichanX's recommendations on how to use the PC. Slow 1" per second, speed 6, and I typically pass over each area 6~8 times before shitting it off and removing product.

Good luck and keep us posted on how things turn out.

George

05-20-2008, 11:21 PM	#1
Neema Major General 843 Rep 7,246 Posts Drives: a few BMWs Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: SoCal iTrader: (12)	Menzerna IP and orange pad, unsuccessful at removing swirls on JB Audi S4 I used a porter cable 7424 with the rpm's set at 4, worked in very slow figure 8 motions with medium pressure using an orange LC pad and menzerna IP on an 05 audi S4, a jet black one. We removed some of the swirls, but nothing near the results that I get on using the same method and product on my 335. Perhaps audi paint is harder? __________________ LTMW Widebody+1M front bumper+Slek CF Lip\|M3 Hood\|StopTech BBK\|M-Sport Rear Bumper+DD CF Diffuser\|Custom Recaro Seats\|KW V2\|BavX LS3\|M3 Side Skirts+Custom CF Lip\|BBS CHR 19x10.5+BBS Lugs\|LCI Taillights\|RD Sport Anti-Sway Bars\|GIAC S2\|ER Intercooler+CF Shroud+Charge Pipe\|Tial BOV\|Injen Intake\|MS downpipes\|Custom Exhaust\|BMS Oil Catch Can\|M3 DCT wheel+TiD CF Paddles\|BMW CF Trunk Spoiler\|Aluminum Pedals
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05-21-2008, 10:31 AM	#3
turbojet3 First Lieutenant 11 Rep 325 Posts Drives: E92 335 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: C. FL. iTrader: (0)	I think Audi and VW have much harder clear than our E92's. __________________ I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch. Ty Cobb
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05-21-2008, 10:40 AM	#4
HPIA4v2 Major 254 Rep 1,391 Posts Drives: F80, F86 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Washington iTrader: (3)	I am noob when it comes to polishing, just been reading all over. I wonder if your Audi is older and has more intense oxidation/swirl etc compare to 335, so PP106F(light-medium abrasiveness) will be better on the Audi compare to PFII(light abarasiveness). I'll try my Flex and 106F on 97 Audi so we'll see. I am using it as a test car before mooving to my newer cars.
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05-21-2008, 11:42 AM	#6
Raz335 Major 55 Rep 1,162 Posts Drives: BMW M3 Convertible Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: LI,NY iTrader: (2)	Yup, Audi's have very hard Clear coats. If using a PC, you need to use an aggressive pad and polish and have the speed turned up to max (I forget if max is 5 or 6). And make sure you work the polish in until completely broken down. Generally about 3 minutes on a 2ft x 2ft area. __________________ Jerez Black/Fox E93 M3 - Prem 2/Cold/Conv/DCT/EDC/19's/Ext Lthr/Crbn Trim/Enhanced Sound/Sat Mods- 20" BBS LM's DBK/Challenge Catback/Eibachs/Trim wrapped black/Lux Angel eyes/35% Tint
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05-21-2008, 10:36 PM	#11
TRICKE90 Private First Class 3 Rep 182 Posts Drives: 2008 335i coupe, montego blue, Join Date: May 2006 Location: carson city,nv iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 e92 335i coupe [0.00] 2008 335i coupe [0.00] 2006 325i [0.00] 2006 325i [0.00] 2006 325i [0.00] 2006 325i [0.00] 2006 325i [0.00] 2006 325i [0.00] 2006 325i [0.00]	The clearcoat on my '08 Montego Blue is so soft that if rub against the paint (with sweat pants) while cleaning my windows it will scratch the clearcoat.
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05-25-2008, 02:31 AM	#13
HPIA4v2 Major 254 Rep 1,391 Posts Drives: F80, F86 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Washington iTrader: (3)	Well, got to try my Flex3401 on old Audi pearl-white. First, the 106FF is rather mild for this old paint with some "scars", web-haze and light-swirls melt away with ease, leaving mirror like finish (I use LC orange pad) but the deeper straight scratch still visible under halogen light. I tried to spray the pads with distilled water to extend the work time and move slower (with more presssure) but no go. Yes it helps but some lines still visible. Wish had SIP polish with yellow pads on hand, being noob I over estimate how good the condition of the paint was. I applied glaze for now to hide it. George, the flex is dream and rather quite (my dog laid 10 feet away in the garage while I was working on speed 6, wow). Will probably order pads and SIP soon, BTW I like the double plush MF.
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