[PerthBMW]

Hi

I was surprised to read in the weekend paper here on Saturday that BMW's sales in Australia are down, especially for their traditional 3 series market. They are being beat up by Mercedes and Audi in noticeable numbers decline.

I appreciate the economy is depressed which would flow onto lower car sales but BMW was noted as suffering specific losses due to the non-competitive nature of their product offering and pricing.

I guess with the 3 series particularly, my 2010 e90 doesn't look that much different to the current model externally and internally, the specifications have only been enhanced with electronics which are standard on some Hyundais now??

The big question I am playing with is do I upgrade or save myself $100K and wait until there is actually a step change in design and features? Case in point is the new X3 - it's $5K more expensive but is it worth it???

Any thoughts???

[SE7EN335]

Originally Posted by PerthBMW

Hi

I was surprised to read in the weekend paper here on Saturday that BMW's sales in Australia are down, especially for their traditional 3 series market. They are being beat up by Mercedes and Audi in noticeable numbers decline.

I appreciate the economy is depressed which would flow onto lower car sales but BMW was noted as suffering specific losses due to the non-competitive nature of their product offering and pricing.

I guess with the 3 series particularly, my 2010 e90 doesn't look that much different to the current model externally and internally, the specifications have only been enhanced with electronics which are standard on some Hyundais now??

The big question I am playing with is do I upgrade or save myself $100K and wait until there is actually a step change in design and features? Case in point is the new X3 - it's $5K more expensive but is it worth it???

Any thoughts???

Don't know where you are getting your info from...

But BMW is not declining in sales. It is more so Mercedes and Audi that are decreasing in sales than BMW. Both Merc C and CLA class were down over 40% in sales from Sept figures to Oct figures and E class were down 50% in sales from Sept to Oct. BMW had both sizeable increases in sales of 3 class and 5 class from Sept and Oct. Only the 2 class and X5 had decreases in sales and 4 class remained pretty similar. X1 and X3 had substantial increases.

[PerthBMW]

Originally Posted by SE7EN335

Don't know where you are getting your info from...

But BMW is not declining in sales. It is more so Mercedes and Audi that are decreasing in sales than BMW. Both Merc C and CLA class were down over 40% in sales from Sept figures to Oct figures and E class were down 50% in sales from Sept to Oct. BMW had both sizeable increases in sales of 3 class and 5 class from Sept and Oct. Only the 2 class and X5 had decreases in sales and 4 class remained pretty similar. X1 and X3 had substantial increases.

Unlike you, I clearly quoted my source as being a Perth weekend newspaper...

[aaron_]

I'm a car person, not a bmw person although I've had an e46, and now an e93. Next car I'd love a c63s coupe - but the m4 is much better value as it's got 2 years of depreciation on the AMG. If it weren't for price difference, no way in hell I'd chose the m4

Merc and Audi interior is fresher and nicer and exterior styling has evolved significantly instead of looking like a facelift.

Bmw needs to up their game

They also need a GOOD halo car like the R8 and AMG GT S; they i8 doesn't cut it in my opinion. Needs more cylinders and less flowers

[bradsm87]

It's no surprise. A lot of dealers don't even have 3 series demos at times. You go in wanting a 3 series and they try and talk u into buying an SUV.

[donR]

Yeah, what is the deal with these X3s they try to push on you.

I went looking for an F31 and its like I had to really push them to sell it to me or they wanted too much for them and kept telling me to drive the X3.

As far as sales go I guess the Fx platform is coming to the end of its life cycle whereas the Audi B9 is newer & has a little more tech and I think the C series is the same. I've heard a lot of people saying that there is more tech in the Merc & Audi now and that's what their going for rather than the driving experience.

Personally, I think the Fx is still better buying if you can buy at a bit of a discount. I don't hear of any A4s or C300s being really discounted. A friend recently had to pay $108k for a new A5 Sline drive away which is a very similar car to a 430i m sport which you should be able to get for under $100k or $75k for a demo drive away.

Just received an email listing 340i m sport demo for $94k and 330i m sport sedan for $70k. Probably Knock another $5k off with a bit of haggling which is great value for these cars new IMO.

[Socket]

BMW are falling behind in my personal view. The N54 and E9x series were world class when they came out. Since then the competition is out pacing BMW.. just my 20c

[satz]

The current C class and even the current Audi A4 look miles better inside and out than the current 3 series.

Even the 2009 C class and A4 actually look much more modern than the contemporary 3 series....at least sedans...

And I think the 3 series is still the main selling BMW?

[Coupes33]

I believe one issue that BMW has besides high vehicle, parts and services prices, is the first sedan anyone can buy is a 3 series. I sold my F80 M3 mainly due to its size. They are as big as a Commodore or Falcon. I prefer a car the size of the E90 but BMW doesn't sell one. The 1 series are hatches with no boot space while the 2 series are coupes. That is why a bought a Audi S3 which is the perfect size for me, all wheel drive, great interior, 13.0s 1/4 times which is the same as a standard E90/92 M3 and half the price. Install a APR Stage 1 tune and it will do 12.0s over the 1/4 without changing anything else. BMW has nothing that competes with that.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Socket

BMW are falling behind in my personal view. The N54 and E9x series were world class when they came out. Since then the competition is out pacing BMW.. just my 20c

Agreed. I think with the GFC, they built the Fxx series to a lower budget. Alloy parts replaced with steel etc. Now that the economy has turned around a little, it looks like the G series cars are going back to a little higher build cost, lighter with more alloy etc.

I'm a rear wheel drive man through and through so the only alternative to me is MB but their cars are known to be a lot less sharp in the handling department than a BMW.

[MJ80.]

Originally Posted by Coupes33

I believe one issue that BMW has besides high vehicle, parts and services prices, is the first sedan anyone can buy is a 3 series. I sold my F80 M3 mainly due to its size. They are as big as a Commodore or Falcon. I prefer a car the size of the E90 but BMW doesn't sell one. The 1 series are hatches with no boot space while the 2 series are coupes. That is why a bought a Audi S3 which is the perfect size for me, all wheel drive, great interior, 13.0s 1/4 times which is the same as a standard E90/92 M3 and half the price. Install a APR Stage 1 tune and it will do 12.0s over the 1/4 without changing anything else. BMW has nothing that competes with that.

M140i is the best value sports car on the market atm. 60k drive away will also outdrive s3 on track as shown in crazy stupid amounts of comparos, yeah slthe audis have flattering ets but its only from the awd launch, the m140i isnt far behind in et with a tune only compared to s3 w tune only and is ripping a much better trap.

[Coupes33]

Originally Posted by MJ80.

M140i is the best value sports car on the market atm. 60k drive away will also outdrive s3 on track as shown in crazy stupid amounts of comparos, yeah slthe audis have flattering ets but its only from the awd launch, the m140i isnt far behind in et with a tune only compared to s3 w tune only and is ripping a much better trap.

I agree the M140 and M240 have great engines and are quicker than the S3 but they don't come as a sedan. If BMW brought out a sedan the same size as a 2 series with the same running gear as the M240, it would be a winner and take the market away from Audi.

[Coupes33]

Originally Posted by MJ80.

M140i is the best value sports car on the market atm. 60k drive away will also outdrive s3 on track as shown in crazy stupid amounts of comparos, yeah slthe audis have flattering ets but its only from the awd launch, the m140i isnt far behind in et with a tune only compared to s3 w tune only and is ripping a much better trap.

I agree the M140 and M240 have great engines and are quicker than the S3 but they don't come as a sedan. If BMW brought out a sedan the same size as a 2 series with the same running gear as the M240, it would be a winner and take the market away from Audi. However, BMW would have to also drop the price as the M240 base price is $12,000 dearer than the S3.

[TK323]

it's not only audi and mercedes that are outselling bmw.the last few months i've been seeing a heap of new mustangs on the road here in melbourne.
add to that the newly released kia stinger and competition could be about to get a whole lot tougher.

[donR]

I'd have to agree the S3 is a complete package and a lot of bang for your buck but it is no M2 or M3. Don't get me wrong, S3 is a fantastic car as illustrated by the huge sales and does look nice in a sedan but it doesn't look much different to an A3 s-line. I think Audi have also let things go with the RS3 in terms of aesthetics. Though I understand with some its not about looks but then why not get a WRX or Focus, or as mentioned above now a kia stinger.

With that said I'd say the F3x M3/M4 combo which will end next year would have outsold the equivalent RS5 and C63 in terms of numbers and at the end of the runs will still be ahead. I think BMW will also do well with the M2 sales but I agree a sedan or GT version would have been good, but this doesn't seem too far away:

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/20...-ar173535.html

Maybe this will also pave the way for a 240i sedan which would arguably replace the S3.

No doubt when the G20 3 series comes out BMW will be back on top.

[e36mmm]

I agree with Socket.
I bought a c250 brand new recently and it drives like an e90 or e46. Dynamics are good and design is lovely. Very nice car and its much better to drive than the current rivals like a4 or 3 series imo. Bmw sadly continues to disappoint. Next 5 years should bring Bmw back into the game but no more new M cars for me. Im going backwards in the M division and will start off with an e46 m3. So that it doesn't come as a shock to any of us here, next m3 will be awd :facepalm:

[Coupes33]

Originally Posted by donR

I'd have to agree the S3 is a complete package and a lot of bang for your buck but it is no M2 or M3. Don't get me wrong, S3 is a fantastic car as illustrated by the huge sales and does look nice in a sedan but it doesn't look much different to an A3 s-line. I think Audi have also let things go with the RS3 in terms of aesthetics. Though I understand with some its not about looks but then why not get a WRX or Focus, or as mentioned above now a kia stinger.

With that said I'd say the F3x M3/M4 combo which will end next year would have outsold the equivalent RS5 and C63 in terms of numbers and at the end of the runs will still be ahead. I think BMW will also do well with the M2 sales but I agree a sedan or GT version would have been good, but this doesn't seem too far away:

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/20...-ar173535.html

Maybe this will also pave the way for a 240i sedan which would arguably replace the S3.

No doubt when the G20 3 series comes out BMW will be back on top.

In the 1st Quarter of 2017, BMW sold 50 M4 and Mercedes sold 260 C63s. From Jan - Sept 2017, BMW sold 217 M2, 370 M3 and 242 M4 in Australia.

[donR]

Those are really interesting figures. Where do you get them from?

I'd be curious to know numbers on the 8V S3? That has got to be a record for an S car.

Can you find out what the totals are for the W205 C63 vs F8x to date? Though I know its hard to compare when they have different release dates.

I think maybe the older W204 C63 did outsell the E9x M3s over the years. Though I think at the end of the life cycles it is going to be very close with the W205 and F8x. I'd still hedge my bets on the BMW this time around.

I would have also considered a C series as they are really nice cars but IMO the C250 is lacking a bit in the performance dept and the C300 does not come in wagon.

It will be interesting to see if they do well with C43 wagon sales which certainly fills the gap as far as BMW goes.

[Trev88]

IMO merc are the best bang for the buck in terms of a stock car and it's cheaper to maintain. BMW is for people who loves cars as you end up spending heaps to make it better and it's not cheap to maintain one. So different market of consumers.

[Coupes33]

Originally Posted by donR

Those are really interesting figures. Where do you get them from?

I'd be curious to know numbers on the 8V S3? That has got to be a record for an S car.

Can you find out what the totals are for the W205 C63 vs F8x to date? Though I know its hard to compare when they have different release dates.

I think maybe the older W204 C63 did outsell the E9x M3s over the years. Though I think at the end of the life cycles it is going to be very close with the W205 and F8x. I'd still hedge my bets on the BMW this time around.

I would have also considered a C series as they are really nice cars but IMO the C250 is lacking a bit in the performance dept and the C300 does not come in wagon.

It will be interesting to see if they do well with C43 wagon sales which certainly fills the gap as far as BMW goes.

I used Google and got those numbers from the Motor website.

[Wizard_Of_Auz]

Interesting. When you compare the prices around the world, you're also paying a sizable amount more for a new BMW in Australia.