Long crank on cold morning starts

e90bmw328i · 02-22-2018, 03:57 PM

Ok. I have read a ton already on this topic and cannot find a firm answer. My 2009 328i has 76K miles. Well maintained. Since after winter has kicked in, I have been noticing slow start (long cranks). Goes away after the initial start. As part of my Valve cover gasket replacement, I did a bunch of things already as preventitive maintenance:

1. Valve cover gasket replaced
2. New Eccentric shaft sensor installed (Siemens VDO)
3. New spark plugs
4. Oil filter housing gasket replaced
5. Both Vanos solenoids cleaned and installed with new washers
6. Battery is 2yrs old and I had it tested 2 weeks ago. Checked out clean.

To be honest, I feel like the car does struggle when I accelerate and sometimes does hard gear shifts (automatic). In D/S mode, it all goes away but this might be placebo effect. I scanned for any codes and none found.

So what do you guys think? Fuel pump or ignition coils or starter issue?

nsjames · 02-22-2018, 06:53 PM

so I had the occasional long crank when cold. Always just the first start of the day. It was fine for the rest of the day until it sat overnight.
It was like that for a while, then I got a few days where it took more than one attempt to start the car.
I thought that there was a fueling issue or maybe I had a leaky injector.

Then the starter just died out of the blue. It worked fine 4 or 5 times that day and then was just dead when I stopped for a restroom break.

Replaced the starter and the car starts better than ever. I haven't looked into it yet, but I think that the DME relies on a certain RPM or maybe oil pressure before it turns on the injectors.

anyway, all of my slow start issues went away with a new starter.

frisbeeguy · 02-23-2018, 01:50 AM

Can test the entire charging system with "Topdon Artibattery101..." It'll help you avoid a starter going bad.

e90bmw328i · 02-23-2018, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frisbeeguy

Can test the entire charging system with "Topdon Artibattery101..." It'll help you avoid a starter going bad.

Thanks. Is this only testing the battery? As I said, my battery is still pretty good.

e90bmw328i · 02-23-2018, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsjames

so I had the occasional long crank when cold. Always just the first start of the day. It was fine for the rest of the day until it sat overnight.
It was like that for a while, then I got a few days where it took more than one attempt to start the car.
I thought that there was a fueling issue or maybe I had a leaky injector.

Then the starter just died out of the blue. It worked fine 4 or 5 times that day and then was just dead when I stopped for a restroom break.

Replaced the starter and the car starts better than ever. I haven't looked into it yet, but I think that the DME relies on a certain RPM or maybe oil pressure before it turns on the injectors.

anyway, all of my slow start issues went away with a new starter.

So there is no way to test if my starter is weak or something? May be at the relay?

Phyrexia · 02-23-2018, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90bmw328i

So there is no way to test if my starter is weak or something? May be at the relay?

Have you tried hooking up to a battery charger, effectively removing the charging system from the equation, and then starting the car?

frisbeeguy · 02-23-2018, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90bmw328i

Thanks. Is this only testing the battery? As I said, my battery is still pretty good.

Tests battery, alternator, and starter for all makes. Check out this video by Scotty Kilmer:

e90bmw328i · 02-24-2018, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phyrexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90bmw328i

So there is no way to test if my starter is weak or something? May be at the relay?

Have you tried hooking up to a battery charger, effectively removing the charging system from the equation, and then starting the car?

So i connected my miata in parallel with the bmw just like you would when jump strarting. The lag was still there. So its not my battery i think.

Phyrexia · 02-24-2018, 06:25 PM

Seems reasonable to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90bmw328i

So i connected my miata in parallel with the bmw just like you would when jump strarting. The lag was still there. So its not my battery i think.

CobraMarty · 02-25-2018, 08:37 AM

I had long cranking and starting problems when I had a bad vanos valve.

I tried cleaning them and no change.
Replaced both with new ones and problem solved.

rjahl · 02-25-2018, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90bmw328i

So i connected my miata in parallel with the bmw just like you would when jump strarting. The lag was still there. So its not my battery i think.

Can you tell if the cranking RPMs are good? does it sound like it's spinning hard and fast or sort of a slow windup? You can hear the difference.

Just hooking up another car with Jumpers might not tell you much. Are you sure the jumpers are good quality and connected well enough to carry the starting current?

If you are cranking slowly, something as simple as a bad ground strap can be the issue. Try connecting good jumpers to the positive post in the engine bay and the negative to the engine block it-self.

I've seen some really horrible jumper cables, with a copper core so thin they can hardly drive a flash light. I don't know the exact number but I would expect that you need around 300 amps to the starter.

e90bmw328i · 02-25-2018, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjahl

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90bmw328i

So i connected my miata in parallel with the bmw just like you would when jump strarting. The lag was still there. So its not my battery i think.

Can you tell if the cranking RPMs are good? does it sound like it's spinning hard and fast or sort of a slow windup? You can hear the difference.

Just hooking up another car with Jumpers might not tell you much. Are you sure the jumpers are good quality and connected well enough to carry the starting current?

If you are cranking slowly, something as simple as a bad ground strap can be the issue. Try connecting good jumpers to the positive post in the engine bay and the negative to the engine block it-self.

I've seen some really horrible jumper cables, with a copper core so thin they can hardly drive a flash light. I don't know the exact number but I would expect that you need around 300 amps to the starter.

The jumper cables are decent quality and brand new. Also my miata battery is only 3months old. The cranking is slow and sounds like its struggling to turn.

e90bmw328i · 05-13-2018, 12:05 AM

An update to this. After the temperatures have climbed up, I dont see this issue anymore. Car starts and runs normally. Phew!!!

Emilime75 · 05-13-2018, 12:22 AM

Well, that doesn't mean the problem has magically fixed itself, conditions have just changed to mask it. For example, oil thins when warm, putting less strain on engine cranking/starter. Electrical components like starters and batteries also tend to work better when warm...to an extent.

Something I've seen come up a lot lately, from threads talking about starter issues, is the ground strap between the back of the motor and the firewall. They have a tendency to deteriorate, crumble to pieces and/or develope corrosion to the point of being ineffective. Might want to check that.

02-22-2018, 03:57 PM	#1
e90bmw328i Lieutenant 39 Rep 407 Posts Drives: 2017 330i Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Hudson, TX iTrader: (1)	Long crank on cold morning starts Ok. I have read a ton already on this topic and cannot find a firm answer. My 2009 328i has 76K miles. Well maintained. Since after winter has kicked in, I have been noticing slow start (long cranks). Goes away after the initial start. As part of my Valve cover gasket replacement, I did a bunch of things already as preventitive maintenance: 1. Valve cover gasket replaced 2. New Eccentric shaft sensor installed (Siemens VDO) 3. New spark plugs 4. Oil filter housing gasket replaced 5. Both Vanos solenoids cleaned and installed with new washers 6. Battery is 2yrs old and I had it tested 2 weeks ago. Checked out clean. To be honest, I feel like the car does struggle when I accelerate and sometimes does hard gear shifts (automatic). In D/S mode, it all goes away but this might be placebo effect. I scanned for any codes and none found. So what do you guys think? Fuel pump or ignition coils or starter issue?
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02-22-2018, 06:53 PM	#2
nsjames Brigadier General 2461 Rep 4,328 Posts Drives: 08 328xi Touring Join Date: May 2017 Location: ohio iTrader: (0)	so I had the occasional long crank when cold. Always just the first start of the day. It was fine for the rest of the day until it sat overnight. It was like that for a while, then I got a few days where it took more than one attempt to start the car. I thought that there was a fueling issue or maybe I had a leaky injector. Then the starter just died out of the blue. It worked fine 4 or 5 times that day and then was just dead when I stopped for a restroom break. Replaced the starter and the car starts better than ever. I haven't looked into it yet, but I think that the DME relies on a certain RPM or maybe oil pressure before it turns on the injectors. anyway, all of my slow start issues went away with a new starter.
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02-23-2018, 01:50 AM	#3
frisbeeguy Private First Class 66 Rep 195 Posts Drives: BMW,Tesla, etc. Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Cincinnati, OH iTrader: (0) Garage List 2021 Tesla Model 3 [0.00] 2014 BMW X3 xDrive35i [0.00]	Can test the entire charging system with "Topdon Artibattery101..." It'll help you avoid a starter going bad.
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02-25-2018, 08:37 AM	#10
CobraMarty Major 622 Rep 1,402 Posts Drives: 2007 328xi e90 + e92 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: BimmerMILVs.com iTrader: (7)	I had long cranking and starting problems when I had a bad vanos valve. I tried cleaning them and no change. Replaced both with new ones and problem solved.
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05-13-2018, 12:05 AM	#13
e90bmw328i Lieutenant 39 Rep 407 Posts Drives: 2017 330i Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Hudson, TX iTrader: (1)	An update to this. After the temperatures have climbed up, I dont see this issue anymore. Car starts and runs normally. Phew!!!
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05-13-2018, 12:22 AM	#14
Emilime75 Colonel 1227 Rep 2,476 Posts Drives: 2010 335i E92 LeMans Blue Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Merica! iTrader: (1)	Well, that doesn't mean the problem has magically fixed itself, conditions have just changed to mask it. For example, oil thins when warm, putting less strain on engine cranking/starter. Electrical components like starters and batteries also tend to work better when warm...to an extent. Something I've seen come up a lot lately, from threads talking about starter issues, is the ground strap between the back of the motor and the firewall. They have a tendency to deteriorate, crumble to pieces and/or develope corrosion to the point of being ineffective. Might want to check that.
	Appreciate 0 Quote