[neilvan]

So I pulled my turbos off to get the new wastegate flappers installed. All new gaskets and o-rings and all that stuff. New waterpump/thermostat and all the hoses at the same time. 6.5 L of Motul 5w40. Cranked the engine for a while to build oil pressure to the turbos before start.

Went for a drive and 5 mins later I get this whining which I believe is coming from the turbos(rear?). Serpentine belt was removed during the video so it cannot be any of the pulleys/idlers.

Anyone have any ideas other than turbo bearings?(although it really doesn't sound like it). Its a high pitched whine that happens around 2500rpm and up.

Video:
20180619_190605 by Neil Vanderlaan, on Flickr

[torrque]

you sure it's not pulleys ? I had the same thing for a while after I swapped my idler pulleys

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

I presume you did a boost leak check and logs show boost comes on as expected (or better since you have new wastegates...) and boost holds target fine?

[neilvan]

Sorry the video wouldnt load.

The turbos and wastegates are original. 129km (80mi) but were both checked by the shop to ensure that they were still good. Just the wastegate flappers were replaced.

With the serp belt removed all the the pulleys weren't turning so they couldnt have made noise.

I turned the JB4 to map 0. No difference.

I also disconnected the vacuum line to the rear wastegate solenoid and that eliminated the noise...

[buster84]

Originally Posted by neilvan

Sorry the video wouldnt load.

The turbos and wastegates are original. 129km (80mi) but were both checked by the shop to ensure that they were still good. Just the wastegate flappers were replaced.

With the serp belt removed all the the pulleys weren't turning so they couldnt have made noise.

I turned the JB4 to map 0. No difference.

I also disconnected the vacuum line to the rear wastegate solenoid and that eliminated the noise...

You went through all that trouble to remove and reinstall them with 80k miles on them??? Dam... such a waste. Hopefully they last another 20-30k. You should have just bought a new set of OEM for the install. Even worse is you paid labor for the turbo wategate fix because if you have further issues it'll cost you more in the end making you wish you bought new ones to begin with.

[neilvan]

Originally Posted by buster84

You went through all that trouble to remove and reinstall them with 80k miles on them??? Dam... such a waste.

I had thought about it until I pulled the turbos off. They never burned oil and didn't show signs of it. Plus the shaft play was very minimal they seemed to be in great shape so why pay 5-6 grand for a just because? I idled the car fully twice and went for a 5/10min run with some decently hard pulls. It ran strong but just after a corner near my house I heard the whining.

If this one is bad Ill just order a rebuild kit and do it myself. Not nearly my first time doing that but Its just the pain of pulling them both out again.

is 100mi really a limit for these ones? Ive owned lots of turbo saabs and volvos. Lots made it to and still are at 250/300k or even more. Half of that modded and turbos still in great shape and still going.

EDIT:

I should also add I switched the JB4 wastegate settings 10: 1000 / 12:2000 to 10: 2500 /12:2500 during the first run.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

If you find it is the turbos and decide to pull them out again and rebuild yourself, you will surely be pulling them back out again soon thereafter...

It is not about the not being able to pull the guts apart and reassembling with basic mechanics tools, it is more about making sure they operate smoothly all the way to and beyond 200,000rpm which takes substantial turbo balancing machinery (ie. high quality machines can be easily $100,000).

In short you want to AT LEAST do a proven CHRA kit (which are sub $500 USD) from a reputable vendor.

Thanks,
Rob

[neilvan]

Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo

It is not about the not being able to pull the guts apart and reassembling with basic mechanics tools, it is more about making sure they operate smoothly all the way to and beyond 200,000rpm which takes substantial turbo balancing machinery (ie. high quality machines can be easily $100,000).

Thanks,
Rob

By rebuild I mean get a good quality rebuild kit, clean up the wheels, reinstall and of course go get them rebalanced.

No point half-assing it on a performance car. I don't see spending money on something I can do myself and maybe better(I'm a little picky and untrusting). Plus I do have experience building turbos/engines for our race cars so Its not just being cheap.


After some reading I hear it may be the rear turbo inlet? I recall that one being a pain to get on and flush. It looks like ill be pulling the downpipes off and giving that one a check over.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Originally Posted by neilvan

By rebuild I mean get a good quality rebuild kit, clean up the wheels, reinstall and of course go get them rebalanced.

Fair enough and best of luck just remember not all "balancing" is created equal and if you do not have every "t" crossed and "i" dotted this platform will eat you alive when it comes to its' turbos.

Rob

[neilvan]

Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo

Fair enough and best of luck just remember not all "balancing" is created equal and if you do not have every "t" crossed and "i" dotted this platform will eat you alive when it comes to its' turbos.

Rob

Oh I do understand and thanks for the advice. There is a local guy who's been doing it for years and well regarded and hes who ive used for a while now. Ive really used some turbos quite hard and not an issue yet so I'm hoping that continues. Ill just have to find a non cheepo brand of bearing if that ends up being the issue.

Are the Td03's really that much more fragile than the td04/td04hl's?

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Originally Posted by neilvan

Oh I do understand and thanks for the advice. There is a local guy who's been doing it for years and well regarded and hes who ive used for a while now. Ive really used some turbos quite hard and not an issue yet so I'm hoping that continues. Ill just have to find a non cheepo brand of bearing if that ends up being the issue.

Are the Td03's really that much more fragile than the td04/td04hl's?

That could be some of it but some of it could just be that this platform spins these lil guys to 200+K rpm all day everyday whereas what you are used to is probably peaking in the 120k rpm range. This tends to put a hurtin' on units that are not built to ABSOLUTE perfection in every possible way every single time.

Bottom line is that your local turbo guy who's been doing it for years probably would not succeed in this platform without really re-evaluating everything about what they do currently and with what machinery they use to do it (just a very likely "hunch").

Take this from someone who has "been there and done that" sharing some friendly advice based on the experiences of our own and many others in approaching the past decade servicing turbos on this platform.

Rob

[rgfinn76]

5 to 6 grand on turbos?? OEM’s are approx $800 each.

[neilvan]

Originally Posted by rgfinn76

5 to 6 grand on turbos?? OEM’s are approx $800 each.

I'm in Canada. From the dealer they are around $2700 each.

Even at ecstuning the bmw ones are 2100 (mitsubishi who I know is the manufacturer is around 700-800)

Edit: 2700-3200 each (https://shop.bmw.ca/a/BMW_2009_335i-...r/11_3977.html)

[neilvan]

So the downpipes came off and the rear turbo has excessive shaft play. Just fyi for anyone.

[siphor1989]

Originally Posted by neilvan

So the downpipes came off and the rear turbo has excessive shaft play. Just fyi for anyone.

Wow that's some really bad luck. So this happened right after you got the new wastegates installed?

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

That sucks. Shoot me an email if you'd like to talk about VTT options and what would work best for you.

[neilvan]

Originally Posted by siphor1989

Wow that's some really bad luck. So this happened right after you got the new wastegates installed?

Yep. Great start to the summer right. Its possible something happened on install or plain bad luck or the wastegate rattle was just masking the problem and once it was fixed it the extra load just gave out? Ill have to dig around once I get them both back off.

I after seeing how the stock inlets work I will be getting some upgraded ones. The HP is a secondary benefit to less stress on the turbo.

I'm torn between just rebuilding what I have(assuming the wheels are okay) and the RB cores. I like the idea of the bigger TD04 bearings in the mhi center and the pricepoint but the reliability/smoking of aftermarket is what worrys me.

This is my summer daily driver (and my slow car) so I do need it to be reliable enough. No real need for big turbos but I want something that can handle FBO and not worry about it. Mid 400s HP and 3500lbs is plenty for a daily.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Originally Posted by neilvan

I'm torn between just rebuilding what I have(assuming the wheels are okay) and the RB cores. I like the idea of the bigger TD04 bearings in the mhi center and the pricepoint but the reliability/smoking of aftermarket is what worrys me.

Sucks about the turbo(s) but indeed if you ever have to pull them for any DYI efforts always do the CHRA's while you are at it.

FYI we have shipped around 125 sets of our RB OEM builds since 10/2016 and not a single one has had any sort of issue or complaint.

However for the mid 4xx whp range along with a power curve that doesn't fall off towards redline we would recommend going with the RB Ones.

Thanks,
Rob

[neilvan]

Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo

Sucks about the turbo(s) but indeed if you ever have to pull them for any DYI efforts always do the CHRA's while you are at it.

FYI we have shipped around 125 sets of our RB OEM builds since 10/2016 and not a single one has had any sort of issue or complaint.

However for the mid 4xx whp range along with a power curve that doesn't fall off towards redline we would recommend going with the RB Ones.

Thanks,
Rob

The oems make the most sense. I have seen your numbers and that's great to hear. As much As I trust those, I would like to see from a few people running them just to confirm. Standard research.

I have looked at the DIY Ones but as well as with the inlets and other cars/house/life things take money too. $450 (600cad) to 1000(1350cad) is a big jump. But I do like the idea of biggers turbos for similar power to put less stress on them.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Originally Posted by neilvan

The oems make the most sense. I have seen your numbers and that's great to hear. As much As I trust those, I would like to see from a few people running them just to confirm. Standard research.

I have looked at the DIY Ones but as well as with the inlets and other cars/house/life things take money too. $450 (600cad) to 1000(1350cad) is a big jump. But I do like the idea of biggers turbos for similar power to put less stress on them.

What we have found over many years in this platform it's unlikely for anyone to say anything on a forum unless they have a problem... and when there are no problems it is just crickets. But indeed there are a TON of them out there so perhaps someone may see this and chime in for some reassurance.

Regarding the RB OEM's vs the RB Ones is that IF you are going with high flow inlets either way, it doesn't make much sense to not just get the RB Ones in order to really let the inlets shine... but if it is a budget breaker then you have to do what you have to do.

Rob

[neilvan]

Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo

What we have found over many years in this platform it's unlikely for anyone to say anything on a forum unless they have a problem... and when there are no problems it is just crickets. But indeed there are a TON of them out there so perhaps someone may see this and chime in for some reassurance.

Regarding the RB OEM's vs the RB Ones is that IF you are going with high flow inlets either way, it doesn't make much sense to not just get the RB Ones in order to really let the inlets shine... but if it is a budget breaker then you have to do what you have to do.

Rob

I can only hope a few people chime in.

Just to clarify as well. The oems do not need a core charge but the diy ones do?

I guess ill have to see how bad wheels on the rear turbo are. Atleast its only been driven for 5km so who knows.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Originally Posted by neilvan

I can only hope a few people chime in.

Just to clarify as well. The oems do not need a core charge but the diy ones do?

I guess ill have to see how bad wheels on the rear turbo are. Atleast its only been driven for 5km so who knows.

These forums can be a bit weird when you begin discussing pricing/etc. Just send an email directly to us if you need any specifics answered. However if you do go with a core option we do not care the condition as long as they were packaged well on the return you will be fine.

Thanks,
Rob