[mmmmQuattro]

I really want to get back into a smaller, lighter manual coupe. Not to replace the M4, but just for special week-end drives and track outings.

I like 911 coupes and am considering a manual 997.1, but they are so expensive down here, about US $60k for a 10 year old car.
this is nearly the same price as a new M2, or double a 15 year old E46 M3

Over a 10 year period, the M2 will have lost a lot more value than the 911 and the E46 M3.

Are 911's really worth the extra premium? Will they be a good longer term investment?

[MJBO]

I'd love a 911 one day, they are absolutely terrific to drive, but the prices here in Oz are just crazy. Your still looking at serious money for even a base tiptronic Carrera.

From the ones I've driven, you need at least the Carrera S to make it worthwhile, and unless your looking at later PDK cars, your stuck with a lot of 5-speed autos and a handful of manuals (reminds me of hunting for manual E46 M3s).

I'd love a 991.1 Carrera S, but it'll be a good few years before I can justify dropping that sort of coin on it.

[Run Silent]

Dollar for dollar, here in the USA, the variance between models is similar. A very well sorted, low mileage 2006-2008 997.1 with the IMS retrofit complete is gonna set you back around $40K USD. You can get a nearly new M2 for around $40-45K USD or a brand new one for about $50-55K USD.

I have entertained this idea several times, and just can't get myself to justify the budget. They are lovely cars, but I don't feel they are worth the money.

[Darth One]

The 'normal' 997's are fantastic cars, but they're not the lightest versions, and they're significantly down on power vs your M4. the really special drives are the GT models.

The kind of Porsche experience you seem to be referring to is a rep that they earned with their air-cooled cars (993 and earlier). Those are even more down on power vs an M4, but the full sensory experience is really tough to match.

Those are even more expensive than a 997, though, because everyone seems to have been let in on the secret (and the sharks have followed that demand).

[Run Silent]

I agree with all of the above. To add another comment here, obviously one has to compare the 991 to a current F series BMW to really put apples to apples.

Here, the price variance becomes even more apparent.

I've driven a 2015 991 C4S and a 2015 M4 back to back. Honestly, the Porsche was a nicer car in every aspect. It felt a little bit quicker, the interior items were of a slightly higher quality, the leather was a bit nicer, the carpet a bit nicer, the door closed with a higher quality sound and feel. The car handled in a more sprightly and sporty fashion than the BMW. But.... it was literally double the price!! $89K vs $45K for the M4! That to me, was just insane. I mean, it was better, but just a bit - not night and day.

I could justify spending maybe 10 or even 20 percent more, but spending twice the price just seemed like a total rip off to me.

[BEM-S4]

Driving dynamics also does not always equal investment grade. Do you want fun or do you want ROI? Is fun per dollar the most important? If so look no further than Boxster S. ROI on a still reasonable $ car? Add the 1M to the mix.

Too many factors at play for anyone to be much help here unfortunately beyond telling you to just drive a bunch of stuff. You'll know the right one when you find it.

[Never_Enough]

I've gone back & forth on an older 911 turbo, but I cann't bring myself to spend that kind of $ on an old car that may be a maintenance nightmare & is not cheap to maintain.

[IND-Distribution]

Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro

I really want to get back into a smaller, lighter manual coupe. Not to replace the M4, but just for special week-end drives and track outings.

I like 911 coupes and am considering a manual 997.1, but they are so expensive down here, about US $60k for a 10 year old car.
this is nearly the same price as a new M2, or double a 15 year old E46 M3

Over a 10 year period, the M2 will have lost a lot more value than the 911 and the E46 M3.

Are 911's really worth the extra premium? Will they be a good longer term investment?

I just recently purchased a 997.2 Carrera S while cross shopping an M2C and F80 M3. To be fair, I already have an E36 M3 / E46 M3 / E90 M3 and while it was tempting to add to the " M3 lineage", I knew I have always wanted a Porsche and that desire added a lot of weight to a decision. Driving it really just sealed the deal. It's a completely different experience to the BMWs and I relish the opportunity to challenge myself to drive it well.

As an additional car, I wasn't too preoccupied with something that matched the other cars' character or all out speed. In fact, I wanted something that felt completely different...and I think adding a Porsche to your garage would certainly do just that. The slower depreciation certainly is icing on the cake. It may not have the oomph of your M4, but if you were looking for that, I'd just drive the M4.

I think the M2 is nice, but a bit too similar to the M3 / M4 to consider owning at the same time (and not much lighter to boot).

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

$45K for the M4!

God bless America, that price is insane. In oz it's be $100K and no converting currency is irrelevant.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

God bless America, that price is insane. In oz it's be $100K and no converting currency is irrelevant.

To be fair, this was recently and the car was a 2015 M4 with approx 14k miles on it. A new M4 is in the $65K - $70K range.

[erictrainer]

I've asked myself very similar question 100 times....997.1 turbo (75K) or brand new F80. I still don't know the answer, but my conclusion is that I would do it just to switch it up. I personally don't believe the turbo 911 is much faster, if any, but that doesn't matter to me because both cars are fast enough anyway. The M3 is a fun to drive brute, and the turbo is fun to drive in its own right because of how light it is or feels. With all that said at this point it is a better value proposition to buy the turbo because of a flattened depreciation curve. Finally I would not buy a non turbo 997, I believe it will leave you wanting more, it will feel old and slow, and I don't believe in a "charming" way. In your situation let me steer you towards an S2000 an open a whole new can of worms...

[Z K]

The real deal on Porsche is the 996 cars. Pick up a Turbo or maybe even a GT3 for the price of a 997 Carrera S and they're just as fast as the 997 turbo and GT3 cars.

People really look down on the front end styling but the cars itself are solid. I'd say a much better buy than the 993 air cooled cars that are going through the roof in value.

[dgoldenz]

Yes, yes they are...and a well-maintained car with the right options will hold its value extremely well.

[mmmmQuattro]

Originally Posted by Z K

The real deal on Porsche is the 996 cars. Pick up a Turbo or maybe even a GT3 for the price of a 997 Carrera S and they're just as fast as the 997 turbo and GT3 cars.

People really look down on the front end styling but the cars itself are solid. I'd say a much better buy than the 993 air cooled cars that are going through the roof in value.

a low mileage 996.2, which I like, is almost the same price as a 997.1

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by Mike@IND

Driving it really just sealed the deal. It's a completely different experience to the BMWs and I relish the opportunity to challenge myself to drive it well.

This is it. Driving a 991.1 GT3 on track is probably the most fun I've had behind the wheel of a car (followed a very close second by a 2014 Dodge Viper in Death Valley). The sound and feel are just awesome.

[The Wind Breezes]

Buy the car because you think it's fun, not because it's an investment. My knowledge of the 997 is limited but in general they are great cars. If you really want an investment try paying more for a GT3. That said I think having cars as an "investment" AND something you drive is a terrible idea. It makes it harder to feel good about using them, because shit happens.

[Darth One]

Please don't get the 996

[Housekeeping]

In my opinion, pre 1990, the were crap to drive. Pretty slow, sparse, blah

[TomD335xicoupe]

993

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Z K

The real deal on Porsche is the 996 cars. Pick up a Turbo or maybe even a GT3 for the price of a 997 Carrera S and they're just as fast as the 997 turbo and GT3 cars.

People really look down on the front end styling but the cars itself are solid. I'd say a much better buy than the 993 air cooled cars that are going through the roof in value.

Man - what have you been smoking over there on the west coast??

A 996 GT3 will easily be $100K plus, maybe much much more depending on miles, condition, and color.

A 996TT with decent miles and the maintenance up to date will run in the $55K - $65K range all day long! You can get a nice 997.1 C2S for mid 40's.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

Man - what have you been smoking over there on the west coast??

A 996 GT3 will easily be $100K plus, maybe much much more depending on miles, condition, and color.

A 996TT with decent miles and the maintenance up to date will run in the $55K - $65K range all day long! You can get a nice 997.1 C2S for mid 40's.

I'm talking about 997.2 which had the IMS issues resolved. 997.1 Carrera S used to be in the low 30k range just a few years ago... I wouldn't pay more than that for a 997.1.

As for 996 TT, My friend just picked up a 996 TT for $45k last year with a manual transmission. 996 GT3s were in the mid 70s not too long ago.

Given the price inflation, I'm not surprised 996s are going up now as well. The whole 911 market is insanely overpriced. I'd avoid it unless you allow for a price drop once the economy goes south.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

I agree with everything you have said, and also that the entire Porsche lineup is going through an insane overpricing bubble currently. Hell, I just watched a 65k mile 2000 Boxster sell for $20,000 on BAT. That would have been 996 money just a couple of years ago.

I think the point is, that your prices are from 'a couple of years ago' when pricing on used Porsche products have skyrocketed recently. That same 996TT your buddy grabbed is now worth at least 10K more. You won't find a properly sorted GT3 for five figures anymore.

New Porsches keep coming out, it's just a matter of time before the prices come back down. I can see GT cars and special models retaining value. But older Cayman, Boxsters and run of the mill Carreras are not that.

I was looking at a used 981 Cayman S or GTS. But cars that were selling for $50k just a few years ago are going for $60-70k now. WTF! So they are older, more used and now have gone up in price!?