[IK6SPEED]

I admit I wondered WTF when it was announced. Obviously I was not thinking of Natural Disasters.

But it actually works and has a legitimate use based on reports of owners in California

When Elon Musk initially talked about the Model X’s “Bioweapon Defense Mode,” the company’s skeptics dismissed the feature as a simple gimmick. For owners of the company’s electric cars currently affected by the raging wildfires in CA, though, Bioweapon Defense Mode has become a welcome blessing, allowing them and their passengers to breathe clean air despite the worsening air quality outside.

https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-...wildfires/amp/

[Questofthetune]

Definitely pretty cool

[GuidoK]

As far as I can tell this is just the result of using a HEPA cabin air filter like most cars have (or optionally available).
What is so special about Tesla's system? (technically speaking I mean).
Do they use an exeptionally large filter? (I know certain mercedes cars also have used large filters for a long time now; since the 90s or so, sometimes using 2 fairly large pads near the windscreen wiper cowling)

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

As far as I can tell this is just the result of using a HEPA cabin air filter like most cars have (or optionally available).
What is so special about Tesla's system? (technically speaking I mean)

"Naming the feature as 'Bioweapon Defense Mode' was seen as a marketing move, but after releasing those results(in link below),Tesla argued: "Bioweapon Defense Mode is not a marketing statement. You can literally survive a military grade bio attack by sitting in your car."

Not sure that a standard HEPA filter can make that claim.

https://electrek.co/2018/06/01/elon-...de-air-filter/

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

Not sure that a standard HEPA filter can make that claim.

https://electrek.co/2018/06/01/elon-...de-air-filter/

Depends on the HEPA filter, there are lots of classes of hepa filters.
But all nonsense aside, I dont see a particular need to survive a 'military grade bio attack'. I see more use in the filtration power when driving behind a truck or so; on that level it has to perform.

But I do see a particulary large filter in Elon's hand. How expensive is that? Interior filters need to be changed every 6-12 months to stay clean and effective. I mean a normal Hepa/carbon cabin air filter costs about 15 bucks.If this one costs 10 times that I wonder how good of a deal that is.
Once the filter is dirty it looses its effectiveness and can spread dirt. Especially when fungi start to grow in them and spread their spores, so replacing them on that regular interval is pretty important.

[obert]

Why does everything have to turn into a pissing match? It was a good article and the vehicle helped keep people safe.

[GuidoK]

Its not a pissing match, its a discussion whether this is a useful and viable add on to a car.

As I pointed out, these filters have to be changed at intervals so cost may be an issue. Not changing them allows fungi etc to accumulate in there, spreading their spores.
So having it as an add on and not doing its maintenance is not an option.
Changing cabin filters at regular intervals is important.

[obert]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Its not a pissing match, its a discussion whether this is a useful and viable add on to a car.

As I pointed out, these filters have to be changed at intervals so cost may be an issue. Not changing them allows fungi etc to accumulate in there, spreading their spores.
So having it as an add on and not doing its maintenance is not an option.
Changing cabin filters at regular intervals is important.

If the person bought a car like this and the filtration system is beneficial to them and their health I would assume they change it as recommended. Just like people change normal filter on their cars as recommended.

Good for Tesla to keep pushing the envelope.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Its not a pissing match, its a discussion whether this is a useful and viable add on to a car.

As I pointed out, these filters have to be changed at intervals so cost may be an issue. Not changing them allows fungi etc to accumulate in there, spreading their spores.
So having it as an add on and not doing its maintenance is not an option.
Changing cabin filters at regular intervals is important.

Considering 5 vehicles driving out of Paradise, CA have dead bodies in them, I bet they would have found it useful.

Which is exactly what the link is about...and I even stated I thought like you until I read about this actually working in California right this minute.

I doubt any of those filters have been changed.

It also appears that you are not reading links, just posting.

“Musk credited Google co-founder Larry Page for turning him onto the idea and with the Model X in 2015, Tesla introduced a brand new HEPA air filter system.

The automaker claims that it is about 10 times larger than a normal car filter (pictured above) and it is “100 times more effective than premium automotive filters” as it removes “at least 99.97% of fine particulate matter and gaseous pollutants, as well as bacteria, viruses, pollen and mold spores.””

Notice difference in size between the filter in left and right hand, which you would have seen if you looked at link.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

Notice difference in size between the filter in left and right hand, which you would have seen if you looked at link.

Yes I didnt read all the links in the link.
However I did read the 2nd link, where I said

Originally Posted by GuidoK

But I do see a particulary large filter in Elon's hand.

So I have no idea what your point is...

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

Considering 5 vehicles driving out of Paradise, CA have dead bodies in them, I bet they would have found it useful.

And this would have protected them? I understood that those people were in torched cars?
Or did these people die by inhaling small particle matter?

In case of these extreme situations you have to set your venting system to internal recirculation and not draw air in from the outside. Besides particle matter also lots of poisonous gasses are created like CO, NO2 and SO2, and a Hepa filter does nothing against that.

[RM7]

Many military vehicle NBC systems work on over-pressurization concept, with the filters being an integral part of it.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Yes I didnt read all the links in the link.
However I did read the 2nd link, where I said

So I have no idea what your point is...

And this would have protected them? I understood that those people were in torched cars?
Or did these people die by inhaling small particle matter?

In case of these extreme situations you have to set your venting system to internal recirculation and not draw air in from the outside. Besides particle matter also lots of poisonous gasses are created like CO, NO2 and SO2, and a Hepa filter does nothing against that.

Again, you chose to ignore all the first hand accounts out of California.

We get it. You hate Tesla. As his Tesla Roadster smokes your Z4.

[GuidoK]

Too bad that you cant participate in this discussion with in depth arguments anymore and have to resort to personal attacks.

I guess you dont get 'it' at all....

[GuidoK]

I did some research.
This is an interesting article about the 'bioweapon defense mode' with in depth opinions from experts (Michael J. Buchmeier, deputy director of the Pacific Southwest Regional Center for Biodefense and Emerging Diseases at the University of California, Irvine and Colonel Randall Larsen, retired U.S. Air Force and now the director of the Institute for Homeland Security), and they conclude that it wont do any good in a bioweapon attack situation. First argument is that you have to know if an attack has happened. At the time that people start to get the symptoms its too late, and further more, the Hepa standard that it is claimed to meet, is effective against bacteria and pollen but not against a lot of viruses that can be used in bioweapon scenario's.
So as an anallergic device and against smelly odors the filter is useful but thats where its use and effectiveness apparently ends

https://gizmodo.com/bioweapon-expert...owe-1733909293

Also the effectiveness Musk claims (99.97% of 0.3 micrometer particles from the air) is the HEPA ASTM D2986 spec. Bosch has had filters in that spec for ages for a number of cars like I already wrote about:
https://www.boschautoparts.com/en/au...-cabin-filters
These filters have the same filter capability spec as Musk claims, but are available for certain mercedes cars, Subaru's Lexus, or even your honda Civic or toyota Yaris. So nothing special, just ordinairy cars where you can have the same filtration spec against pollen, odors and other allergenic particles by means of a drop in replacement.
But without Musk's marketing flair (or cost); maybe thats why it attracts a certain kind of buyer.

Then there is of course the claim that its 100 times better. The filtration degree is already debunked above, now about the filter capacity.
This article goes into depth about comparing the Tesla filter against a test on an ordinairy Mazda interior filter by a clean air afficionada:
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/tesla-mazda/

And the results are quite astonishing:


Yes the tesla's filter is better. But is it 100 times better as claimed? Absolutely not.
What the tesla filter does in 1 minute, a stock filter does in about 2 minutes according to the measurements. Thats what it comes down to.
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/tesla-mazda/
Also ordinairy interior filters are also available in versions with a carbon interweve mainly to filter out odors (based on sulphur based chemical gasses or ammonia based chemical gasses). This is actually standard on most interior filters, just like the tesla filter has. Most people who do their own maintenance on cars know this because it usually says so right on the filter (I guess thats the benefit of 'hands on experience ).

So Musk creates a hype with false information and claims. I'm sure its a very good interior filter and in some aspects better than normal interior cabin filters but apparantly it needs lies to sell it. You need a salesman like Musk to do that, and you'll attract a large crowd of a certain kind of people that are jumping to spend. He is truely a marketing genious that knows how to attract people that do have the money but dont have the brains to decipher what he says.


As for the costs its not quite clear. Those Bosch ASTM D2986 spec. Hepa filters go for about 19 bucks on amazon.
The things I can find on the cost of the Tesla filter range from 200 bucks to a magnitude of that:

[BayE30]

Alotta good that will do on Model 3 where the window seals are all popped out from poor fitment....

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Yes I didnt read all the links in the link.
However I did read the 2nd link, where I said


So I have no idea what your point is...



And this would have protected them? I understood that those people were in torched cars?
Or did these people die by inhaling small particle matter?

In case of these extreme situations you have to set your venting system to internal recirculation and not draw air in from the outside. Besides particle matter also lots of poisonous gasses are created like CO, NO2 and SO2, and a Hepa filter does nothing against that.

Too bad you did not watch ABC World News on Monday Evening 11.12.2018 which had the interview with the woman attempting to drive out when the smoke got so bad in her car, she bailed out, with her clothing catching on fire as she fled without the vehicles protection.

[GuidoK]

There's no real proof that tesla's filter could have prevented that (or what the state of her current car was for that matter). I think thats the point you're trying to make but your post is really vague on that (except that something is 'too bad' for me'). Read my previous post about the effectiveness issue. The data speaks for itself.
Switching the climate control to internal recirculation is the best action you can take in that scenario. Thats usually also in the manual. That recycles the internal air, I think even through the cabin air filter.
Hell, if a blaze is that bad you could even think about if its wise to extract air from outside, containing smoldering dust and debris, getting sucked into a filter like material with a forced stream of air....
Usually thats a good way to start a fire. Thats how I light my bbq.

What that women did do right imho is run towards the firefighters. I assume we talk about the same woman; the nurse, is that correct? BTW in one interview she said: "the car is on fire, its filling up with smoke". In another interview she said (describing the phonecall she made when sitting in her car) "I think I'm on fire" (meaning the car is on fire).
So a little bit different than how you put it, the car might have been actually on fire. Accrediting tesla's filter to be able to solve these kind of situations (as the only one) is pure speculation.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

There's no real proof that tesla's filter could have prevented that.

Unless you read the numerous first hand accounts online posted in the last week.

Unfortunately you are too busy searching HEPA Filters to search for real life experiences.

[GuidoK]

That still doesnt rule out that an ordinary filter couldnt do the same.
If its all that clear to you, why dont you come up with real verifyable data like I did?
I already showed you that that data with the little PM meter also works in an ordinairy 2010 mazda with stock airfilter. An experiment carried out by a clean air afficionada long before Musk's marketing machine started to work on this (and thus not biassed). That clean air afficionada even says in his investigation that to his surprise extra filtration capacity isnt really needed, that a stock cabin airfilter is that effective.
For all I know Musk read that webpage and thought.... hmmmm making extra $$$ on cabin air filters... might that be possible? I really believe he's that commercially talented , everything he touches turns into gold somehow (after the press conference and the catchy name of course). I really envy him, I wish I was that creative with brandnames and trends to gather such a following. Well, at least I dont have to lie to my customers, that makes me a sound sleeper.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

That still doesnt rule out that an ordinary filter couldnt do the same.
If its all that clear to you, why dont you come up with real verifyable data like I did?
I already showed you that that data with the little PM meter also works in an ordinairy 2010 mazda with stock airfilter. An experiment carried out by a clean air afficionada long before Musk's marketing machine started to work on this (and thus not biassed). That clean air afficionada even says in his investigation that to his surprise extra filtration capacity isnt really needed, that a stock cabin airfilter is that effective.
For all I know Musk read that webpage and thought.... hmmmm making extra $$$ on cabin air filters... might that be possible? I really believe he's that commercially talented , everything he touches turns into gold somehow (after the press conference and the catchy name of course). I really envy him, I wish I was that creative with brandnames and trends to gather such a following. Well, at least I dont have to lie to my customers, that makes me a sound sleeper.

Yes....and a Kia is a car...and so is a BMW

But I understand how they are all the same to you.

Obviously the person interviewed on ABC World News Tonight would disagree with you.

Having high quality HEPA Units in my house and seeing some of the junk that is marketed as HEPA Air Filters, I have first hand knowledge that not all are created equally.

[GuidoK]

We're not talking about high quality hepa filters or junk filters marketed as Hepa.
We're talking about Hepa filters that specced according to the same ASTM D2986 spec. in case of the Bosch filters.

Thats why I already said in my 2nd post:

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Depends on the HEPA filter, there are lots of classes of hepa filters.

Apparantly you don't know how to sort them out having first hand experience in both.

Now if you came up with real, verifyable data, like I did, you could make a point.
But I already made that point. Specialists already debunked Musk's claims.
His filter isn't bioweapon proof and it isn't 100 times as effective. Musk is like a little kid, he exaggerates claims, and gives it a catchy name. Works wonders on the brainless buying crowd.
Sometimes I think he watched too many knightrider episodes......KITT, activate biohazard defense mode
I'm sure his next thing will be a bazillion times as good.
I'm surprised that you still havent bought a tesla. You sure fit the target consumer profile.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

We're not talking about high quality hepa filters or junk filters marketed as Hepa.
We're talking about Hepa filters that specced according to the same ASTM D2986 spec. in case of the Bosch filters.

Thats why I already said in my 2nd post:

Apparantly you don't know how to sort them out having first hand experience in both.

Now if you came up with real, verifyable data, like I did, you could make a point.
But I already made that point. Specialists already debunked Musk's claims.
His filter isn't bioweapon proof and it isn't 100 times as effective. Musk is like a little kid, he exaggerates claims, and gives it a catchy name. Works wonders on the brainless buying crowd.
Sometimes I think he watched too many knightrider episodes......KITT, activate biohazard defense mode
I'm sure his next thing will be a bazillion times as good.
I'm surprised that you still havent bought a tesla. You sure fit the target consumer profile.

Again. We get it. You do not like Tesla. And judging from your last 100 posts, most are in the Off Topic Section.

Regardless, just because a filter meets a certain requirement for filtering, that’s only one piece of the entire SYSTEM.

Put a $75 HEPA unit in your den and use it for a week and then put a $500 High Quality HEPA unit in your den and you can tell night and day differences.

Both have a HEPA rated filter...however the rest of the system has to be able to process the environment.

So you stay with you 5 inch or so HEPA filter and blindly believe that the system works as well the Tesla Feature.

I wouldn’t expect anything less.