[Will_460cs]

N55

Any recommendations for air filters?

Considering the following

KN panel
BMC panel
Burger motorsport induction so their tube and cone filter.

Car is running a Forge FMIC and DMS remap.

I am based in the uk so I don't think I can get the AFE easily/quickly.

Thanks

[CoffeeBean]

Any panel filter is fine. Stock intake is not a restriction unless you're making crazy power. Open filter gets on my nerves with all the whirring it makes, but that's just me. It's also my experience they make you lose low end light throttle power and smoothness too.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

You can get a Mahle for really cheap.

[DiFFv1]

K&Ns are decent IMO
Stock intake is a bit restrictive but functional if your not looking to go bigger in boost.

[Fuel-It!]

The BMS intake is a popular well proven design for the E series N55. I suggest it for most tuned applications.

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

You can get a Mahle for really cheap.

do you mean Mahle paper element aka stock?

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

The BMS intake is a popular well proven design for the E series N55. I suggest it for most tuned applications.

I was leaning towards this but a couple of ppl have mentioned idle issues, have you noticed anything?

[NRigs]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

I was leaning towards this but a couple of ppl have mentioned idle issues, have you noticed anything?

0 issues with my BMS intake after almost 2 years. Just make sure you get the oil kit so you can clean it once and a while.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

do you mean Mahle paper element aka stock?

Yep. Drop-in filters don't do anything.

[Turbod]

You run into the potential for slight idle issues with any aftermarket intake. The only time I notice is during a cold start. I do like the sound of an open filter intake. If I were to buy new again I would go with the Injen intake because it replaces the pipe all the way to the turbo inlet. I have the BMS intake and it has been fine for the past 5 years.

[Will_460cs]

Ive bought a Pipercross dry element, awaiting delivery..

amazing price from £32 from carparts4less..

My rational :

less than 2x the cost of a Mahle paper filter
dry design (not oiled, easier to maintain)
resubale
decent filtration
its damn cheap

Not expecting a power gain, hoping for zero issues with idle etc.

So Carparts4 less, didn't have stock so order from Haz motorsports @£34, this is the oiled version. After checking with Pipercross directly they sell the oiled version in the uk and only the dry version in Germany (TUV). Oil version has better filtration.

[TheGoodTheBadTheUgly]

I personally wouldn't go with injen because of the metal piping. I don't know why but these car's engine bay get extremly/insanely hot and the metal will conduct that heat more than plastic. Meaning your IAT before compression will be usually higher which also means higher IAT after compression.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly

I personally wouldn't go with injen because of the metal piping. I don't know why but these car's engine bay get extremly/insanely hot and the metal will conduct that heat more than plastic. Meaning your IAT before compression will be usually higher which also means higher IAT after compression.

I follow the logic but would want to see real world data. Any air drawn in while stationary will be hotter. I would think that the pipe being hot wouldn't have enough time to heat the air running through the pipe before it reached the turbo once the vehicle is moving. If it did have an impact I would be willing to bet that it is small enough that you wouldn't see it in testing.

Another thing I will say is I don't run tune only but rather upgrade the turbo, FBO, and run higher boost. At this point there could be potential gains running a less restrictive pipe to the turbo inlet that may not apply to people that lightly modify their cars. I haven't had any issues with the BMS unit I am running now.

[9krpmrx8]

I had the AFE drop in, worked great, great quality. I have the Injen now and it's already 90F+ here and I have seen no increase in IAT's. On a MAF car, any aftermarket intake will need a custom tune in order to work perfectly since when you get a custom tune, the MAF will be scaled. A stock tune or OTS tune is not set up for the various aftermarket intakes dimensions.

The Injen is also the only one that gets rid of the most restrictive piece of the stock system.



The Injen along with an Inlet (VS, VSRF, Pure) gets the most flow possible to the compressor inlet.

[TheGoodTheBadTheUgly]

Originally Posted by Turbod

I follow the logic but would want to see real world data. Any air drawn in while stationary will be hotter. I would think that the pipe being hot wouldn't have enough time to heat the air running through the pipe before it reached the turbo once the vehicle is moving. If it did have an impact I would be willing to bet that it is small enough that you wouldn't see it in testing.

Another thing I will say is I don't run tune only but rather upgrade the turbo, FBO, and run higher boost. At this point there could be potential gains running a less restrictive pipe to the turbo inlet that may not apply to people that lightly modify their cars. I haven't had any issues with the BMS unit I am running now.

I agree with you. The heat transfer from the metal piping of the Injen to the intake air is bigger than the plastic one of the BMS but it such over a short period of time that in the end there is no difference.

[Had0uken!]

Surely using this logic - the additional heat from a metal intake pipe is insignificant compared to an upgraded metal chargepipe as the intake air will be cooled as is passes through the intercooler? As when I had my n54 the aluminium or whatever the aftermarket chargepipe was made of got properly hot when the car was upto temp, and the chargepipe unlike the intake pipe is post intercooler so the air temps won't get cooled before the engine. Therefore using this logic all upgraded chargepipes will be worse than the plastic one (except the blowing up part!)
Only playing devils advocate here as I always wondered if the metal chargepipe was a good idea as you couldn't touch it after the car had been running a while. I'm still running the stock plastic one on my n55 as it's still stock but I haven't touched the chargepipe after it's been running to see how hot it gets yet.

[TheGoodTheBadTheUgly]

Originally Posted by Had0uken!

Surely using this logic - the additional heat from a metal intake pipe is insignificant compared to an upgraded metal chargepipe as the intake air will be cooled as is passes through the intercooler? As when I had my n54 the aluminium or whatever the aftermarket chargepipe was made of got properly hot when the car was upto temp, and the chargepipe unlike the intake pipe is post intercooler so the air temps won't get cooled before the engine. Therefore using this logic all upgraded chargepipes will be worse than the plastic one (except the blowing up part!)
Only playing devils advocate here as I always wondered if the metal chargepipe was a good idea as you couldn't touch it after the car had been running a while. I'm still running the stock plastic one on my n55 as it's still stock but I haven't touched the chargepipe after it's been running to see how hot it gets yet.

I understand the comparison you are trying to make but I will tell you why it is different. By the law of thermodynamics, the pressure and temperature at the outlet of a compressor will be much higher than their intakes measurements. It is not a truly linear function and this is why you want to get the lowest temperature possible before entering the compressor. Because after the compressor, the cooling job of the intercooler is pretty basic and not extraordinarly efficient.

So probably the most important factor is to have the lowest intake temperature pre-compression. Because after that, whether the charge pipe is plastic or metal, the difference of transfered heat of these materials will be overshadowed by the heat already present in the intake manifold.

Sorry, I am trying to explain as best as I can in english. I hope you get what I am trying to say a bit .

[DiFFv1]

Originally Posted by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly

I personally wouldn't go with injen because of the metal piping. I don't know why but these car's engine bay get extremly/insanely hot and the metal will conduct that heat more than plastic. Meaning your IAT before compression will be usually higher which also means higher IAT after compression.

I used exhaust heat shield and wrapped my Injen intake in it before installation and my IATs are not as bad as what i thought they would be (Especially when driving vehicle) IMO this worked for me, aswell as getting the Inlet to replace all restrictive areas pre-turbo.

[Had0uken!]

Originally Posted by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly

I understand the comparison you are trying to make but I will tell you why it is different. By the law of thermodynamics, the pressure and temperature at the outlet of a compressor will be much higher than their intakes measurements. It is not a truly linear function and this is why you want to get the lowest temperature possible before entering the compressor. Because after the compressor, the cooling job of the intercooler is pretty basic and not extraordinarly efficient.

So probably the most important factor is to have the lowest intake temperature pre-compression. Because after that, whether the charge pipe is plastic or metal, the difference of transfered heat of these materials will be overshadowed by the heat already present in the intake manifold.

Sorry, I am trying to explain as best as I can in english. I hope you get what I am trying to say a bit .

Yeah I get that! So if your wanting the lowest temperature possible going in then wouldn't you want to use the stock sealed intake? All these aftermarket ones although they still use some of the stock cold air snorkel they are also open all around so will be sucking in the warmer engine bay air so intake temps will be higher to start with?

[TheGoodTheBadTheUgly]

Originally Posted by Had0uken!

Yeah I get that! So if your wanting the lowest temperature possible going in then wouldn't you want to use the stock sealed intake? All these aftermarket ones although they still use some of the stock cold air snorkel they are also open all around so will be sucking in the warmer engine bay air so intake temps will be higher to start with?

Indeed, a lot believe stock intake woukd give you some lower IATs and wouldn't get as heat soaked as open air aftermarket solution.

Looking at it from the surface, it is completly true and the stock system might be able to retain temperatures that are a bit lower.

But there is a major point to keep in mind. The advantage of these open intake system, other than the fact they sound good, is that they suck in a lot more air resulting in a higher debit of air flowing towards the compressor. This is advantageous for the compressor since it will have more air comming to it so there won't be a slight (and unoticeable) delay for the compressor to suck more air in. A higher debit of air also mean there is a higher mass of air traveling by second in the intake system. When you have a higher mass of anything, it takes more time heat and even though these open air intake heat soak more, because of their higher debit, the heat dissipation of the pipe will result in IATs that will be higher than stock system, but by margins that are usually so small that they are overshadowed by the advantage of having a higher debit.

For a stock car I don't really see the benefit of upgrading the air intake system unless you want to change the sound. But when you start tunning and upgrading turbos, you will need to compress air at a higher pressure while still retaining an air flow that will be high enough for the following steps of combustion. That extra air flow should in theory be a lot helpful for the compressor.

[Will_460cs]

All these products seem to have flaws. which is why I have gone for a cheap reusable element.

However given a clean design, I would say relocating the water expansion tank and putting in a shroud + cold intake air divert + biggest cone that can fit would seem to be the most optimal design. I am surprised non of the specialist tuners have come up with something. presumably because redesigning the expansion tank would take some level of engineering over a pipe..

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

All these products seem to have flaws. which is why I have gone for a cheap reusable element.

However given a clean design, I would say relocating the water expansion tank and putting in a shroud + cold intake air divert + biggest cone that can fit would seem to be the most optimal design. I am surprised non of the specialist tuners have come up with something. presumably because redesigning the expansion tank would take some level of engineering over a pipe..

Your info says you have an e92 M3 but I will assume you're talking about a N55. The expansion tank is on the turbo side. Moving the intake over there will cause their to be more heat going into the intake. The run will be shorter however.