[2008_335]

Hey guys. I've been chasing this front end shake for so long now. I got the car a year ago and I had a bad shake starting at 65 mph that increased in violence with speed.
About 8 months ago, after doing some tests - shop discovered my controls were shot. Ordered some TRW m3 front upper and lower control arms, absolutely no change in shaking!
A month or so later, I noticed my tires weren't in that great of shape, bought some brand new Indy 500s for the front... STILL SHAKES.

Went and got my wheels road forced balance, the tech said I had a very small bend on one of my wheels but that it was barely noticeable and that it disappeared at high speed. I went ahead and bought a set of reps from ebay and had them installed and the tires road force balanced. Front wheels have 1 and 2 lb of road force, tech said it was the lowest he had seen.

STILL SHAKING!!

I noticed during my alignment that my passenger said caster was off, and having 130k miles, my shocks and struts were for sure blown. I went and got some BC coils.. Had them installed. I first did the rear shocks myself then went to a shop a month or so later to get the fronts installed. I went and got an alignment after the rears were installed (I have a 3 year alignment with firestone).

After having the fronts installed, initially the shaking was not as bad as it had been. This only lasted a few days, like literally 2/3. It felt a lot smoother for these few days and wasn't shaking at 65, but rather at 75-80! Getting worse as I increased speed. Now it's shaking just as bad as it did before all of this, and I hear popping and clicking going over bumps so I suspect my end links broke already. When I did get the front coils installed, the tech noted my OEM end links were already in very bad condition.

I reused the shock mount on the new coils.

I have yet to get an alignment since getting the front coils installed.

I don't know what the hell the shaking could be caused by, I have changed the following: new shocks and struts, new m3 upper and lower front control arms, new wheels, tires.

EDIT: somewhere between all of this, I had my trans changed and had the flex disc changed out, I also had my front rotors and pads replaced. Still shaking just as bad.

[relative4]

Tie rods?

[Volasko]

You could have a bent hub? Have you been able to determine what side or end the shaking is from?

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Volasko

You could have a bent hub? Have you been able to determine what side or end the shaking is from?

This. Check for lateral runout at the hub face. Could be bent. possibly replace the wheel bearing.

[2008_335]

Originally Posted by relative4

Tie rods?

tie-rods have been inspected several times over the past 6 months, they're holding up well. Thank you

[2008_335]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

This. Check for lateral runout at the hub face. Could be bent. possibly replace the wheel bearing.

How do I check for lateral runout at the hub face? What are the symptoms? I don't hear any sounds that would be like a wheel bearing. How often do hubs get damaged? Thank you guys for the response

[Unknown_Car]

It's your balance. I know few people that got new tires and balance and the car was shaking/vibration like crazy.

""""Front wheels have 1 and 2 lb of road force, tech said it was the lowest he had seen""" you kidding me? That's crazy amount of weight, your rims are bent, or he balanced wrong. I worked as a mechanic for 5 years and I never seen that much weight on one rims. Most I seen just over 4oz and that's on trucks 1500/2500 and that's about 1/4 of a pound.

[2008_335]

Hey man thanks for the response. The wheels were road forced balanced using a hunter machine, he said he was able to get the front wheels down to 1 LB of road force and 2 LB on the other. There is about 2-3 oz of weights on each wheel. This was on my brand new rims.

[Tambohamilton]

Could even be as simple as dirt between the disc(s) and hub(s). I'd not exclude the brakes in your investigation. Do you get any juddering from the brakes? If you take off the front wheels, do the hubs and discs spin freely with no binding?

Also lol at the confusion between road force and wheel weights 2lb of lead on a rim, lowest a mechanic has ever seen!? Would be so funny to see.

[2008_335]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Could even be as simple as dirt between the disc(s) and hub(s). I'd not exclude the brakes in your investigation. Do you get any juddering from the brakes? If you take off the front wheels, do the hubs and discs spin freely with no binding?

Also lol at the confusion between road force and wheel weights 2lb of lead on a rim, lowest a mechanic has ever seen!? Would be so funny to see.

Actually, my rotors and pads were completely changed 3 months ago. They were wrapped before.

[Tambohamilton]

I'd point the finger at hubs/wheel bearings too, then. Good luck!

[Unknown_Car]

Originally Posted by 2008_335

Hey man thanks for the response. The wheels were road forced balanced using a hunter machine, he said he was able to get the front wheels down to 1 LB of road force and 2 LB on the other. There is about 2-3 oz of weights on each wheel. This was on my brand new rims.

Then don't know what to tell you. Abut the hubs I don't think that's the problem like some people say, because you would hear some kind of noice, driving straight or going in to turns.

[polishmafia]

Originally Posted by Roma_335i

It's your balance. I know few people that got new tires and balance and the car was shaking/vibration like crazy.

""""Front wheels have 1 and 2 lb of road force, tech said it was the lowest he had seen""" you kidding me? That's crazy amount of weight, your rims are bent, or he balanced wrong. I worked as a mechanic for 5 years and I never seen that much weight on one rims. Most I seen just over 4oz and that's on trucks 1500/2500 and that's about 1/4 of a pound.

1 or 2 pounds on a tire measuring road force is nothing. Anything under 8 to 10 is acceptable. 15+ is usually considered a bad tire or a problem with the rim, depending on the vehicle. Road force is completely different than the normal balance of wheel and tire.

OP - 2 to 3oz seems a bit much to balance a wheel, but it's not unheard of. Did the shop sy that each wheel needed that much weight? If you look at the wheel weights, you'll be able to see if each one is .25 ounce or .5 ounce.

If the shake is there only at highway speeds, like others have said, could be a bearing or a hub issue. You won't always feel or hear something if one of those I bad.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Roma_335i

It's your balance. I know few people that got new tires and balance and the car was shaking/vibration like crazy.

""""Front wheels have 1 and 2 lb of road force, tech said it was the lowest he had seen""" you kidding me? That's crazy amount of weight, your rims are bent, or he balanced wrong. I worked as a mechanic for 5 years and I never seen that much weight on one rims. Most I seen just over 4oz and that's on trucks 1500/2500 and that's about 1/4 of a pound.

you're not a very good mechanic then (at least not in regard to wheel balancing).

yes wheel balance can be an issue but 1-2lb of "road-force" is extremely low. Most want to see <8lb. Road-force has nothing to do with the amount of wheel weights on the wheel...

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by 2008_335

How do I check for lateral runout at the hub face? What are the symptoms? I don't hear any sounds that would be like a wheel bearing. How often do hubs get damaged? Thank you guys for the response

hubs can get damaged from curbing a wheel or sliding into a curb in the snow etc. A small amount of lateral runout (bent) can cause a pretty massive vibrations. You can see the lateral runout by running a dial indicator at the hub face. There is a tolerance associated with how much runout is acceptable. Gonna have to research that. You can do the same test as the face of the wheel to see if there is lateral runout at the wheel (bent rim).

You can also jack the car up and spin the wheel. You might be able to see it visibly wobble if the wheel or the hub are bent.

[Volasko]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Could even be as simple as dirt between the disc(s) and hub(s). I'd not exclude the brakes in your investigation. Do you get any juddering from the brakes? If you take off the front wheels, do the hubs and discs spin freely with no binding?

Also lol at the confusion between road force and wheel weights 2lb of lead on a rim, lowest a mechanic has ever seen!? Would be so funny to see.

This is a good point and the fact you just changed them recently makes me think whomever swapped the rotors didn't spend the time to clean up the surface of the hub. You could have high spots from rust or debris interfering with the mating surface for your rotors causing the vibration. This would never be picked up by the balancer as he removes the wheels to balance. If you've owned the car from new and know it has never hit a curb badly it probably isn't a bent hub.

[2008_335]

Thank you Volasko bbnks2 polishmafia for the responses. I took my car to an extremely reputable shop in ATL to get the rotors and pads changed and I am fairly certain I watched them use a steel wool on a drill to brush off any debris before putting new rotors on.

I will try to get my hubs checked out. Is there any chance that this is caused by endlinks? When the tech was installing front coils, he said both original endlinks were worn out. After driving the car post-coil installation, i instantly noticed the vibration I had when turning my steering wheel at idle was gone. The steering wheel felt smooth for a change, I always thought this had something to do with my PS pump... I also noticed rather than shaking at 65mph+, the shaking began at 75 and wasn't as bad.

After driving for a few days, I heard the popping and clunking sounds coming from the endlinks, and the vibrations at idle returned. I thought maybe the vibrations I was feeling when adjusting the steering wheel at a stop came back returned because the suspension settled, IDK.

Is there anyway this shaking I get at high speeds and vibration I get when moving the steering wheel at a stop caused by bad end links?? I should add, I had my tie rods checked several times by 3 shops.

EDIT: I just remembered, my rear passenger wheel has about 21lb of road force, they weren't able to get it any lower no matter how many times they rotated the tire. I didn't mention this because I was under the impression that road force really won't be felt if the wheel is in the rear.

EDIT #2: When i got my coils installed, the tech said that my passenger side thrust arm wasn't tightened down properly, a tiny bit loose is what he said. Is there anyway that the control arms were worn out, then after replacing them with m3 arms that one arm wore out from being a bit loose? But I don't see how this could be the cause though, as the shaking was exactly the same before and after getting the upper and lower arms changed. The shaking literally hasn't improved a single bit since doing all this crap.

[Tambohamilton]

I'd get the rear wheel properly balanced before worrying about anything else. That much imbalance suggests a badly damaged rim or an out of spec tyre. You should be able to warranty the tyre.

[Unknown_Car]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

you're not a very good mechanic then (at least not in regard to wheel balancing).

yes wheel balance can be an issue but 1-2lb of "road-force" is extremely low. Most want to see <8lb. Road-force has nothing to do with the amount of wheel weights on the wheel...

I guess you don't know how balance works, or never seen one. Our shop had road force balancer. And how many cars I did never seen 2lbs. Most I seen was about 4oz and thats about 1/4 of a pound.

[Unknown_Car]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

I'd get the rear wheel properly balanced before worrying about anything else. That much imbalance suggests a badly damaged rim or an out of spec tyre. You should be able to warranty the tyre.

That's exactly what it is. I seen people do bad balance all the time. And how much weight he has that's already shows bent rims or poorly balanced.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Roma_335i

I guess you don't know how balance works, or never seen one. Our shop had road force balancer. And how many cars I did never seen 2lbs. Most I seen was about 4oz and thats about 1/4 of a pound.

you're still thinking of wheel weights bud

[Wolf 335]

Originally Posted by Roma_335i

I guess you don't know how balance works, or never seen one. Our shop had road force balancer. And how many cars I did never seen 2lbs. Most I seen was about 4oz and thats about 1/4 of a pound.

Has it been a while since you were around one if these machines?

Why are you still confusing the wheel weights with road force?