Base stereo, bse EQ

Zack1uk · 05-20-2020, 06:29 AM

Apologies if this has been asked befoe. I've searched (and searched), but there is a lot of conflicting info and much of it is 10 years old.

1) Does the base speaker sysyem (ie not Hifi or L7/HK) EQ stay the same throughout the volume (and vehicle speed) range or does it change? I have an Audison AP5.9 that De-EQs but ofc it only does it at a given volume, thats a major issue if the EQ changes at differing volumes (or speed).

2) I have CIC with basic nav. Could someone please point me towards a thread or guide on using ncsexpert or one of the phone apps to recode to HiFi. Or even the codes needed and I can learn the rest.

3) Can just the EQ be removed whilst retaining high level outputs (thinking of noise/hiss).

4) For those who have recoded to hifi, where did you take the amp/dsp remote turn on power wire from?

Thanks in advance.

Zack1uk · 06-01-2020, 07:00 AM

Anyone.....honestly my head is spinning with 10 +years of threads that overlap with CIC/CCC/Idrive/Non-Idrive/Nav/Non-nav

ctuna · 06-01-2020, 01:16 PM

Zack1uk · 06-01-2020, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctuna

Thankyou. I have read pretty much everyone of those threads, and still confused. re using ICOM, I did come across a work around (I think), where the added it to his VO, wrote to the modules, but it wouldn't actually take to the modules until he did a reset.

re the auto turn on, I don't think that the HiFi coded HU have enough voltage to trigger the auto turn on. Both my units (Audison 5.9 and Helix P6) only do it on high level.

Considering the risk of low volume calls and PDC gongs, I think I'll stay with base and just use REW and the P6 input eq to de-eq.

Now I have to figure out whats wrong with my current test sweep (REW and external DAC connected to line outs of an un-equalised Audison DSP). Its very different from the freqency plot in your 1st link, giving me a 40dB rise between 20Hz and 20kHz.....really starting to hate this audio system.

ctuna · 06-01-2020, 06:57 PM

The 12 volt line on a Hi Fi harness equiped car to the amp
probably does not even come from the Head Unit as it
is used to power the amp. On that particualr setup the Technic
Harness supply and additional relay the the power line from the
to the Hi Fi amp is used to switch the relay which is hooked up
to Power some how (power directly from the battery)

Usually the better amps have some kind of turn on signal for
the next amp in line.

There are a bunch of DIY's on how to add a relay on ytube.

Zack1uk · 06-03-2020, 04:22 PM

Thanks again Ctuna.

No issues with sorting a relay. In fact today I have just wired one to turn on my fans and a 12v/5V regulator (for a bluetooth to SPDIF reciever in my boot), triggered by my Helix P6 remote output.

I'm led to believe that the HU has a black wire for antenna power that can be used to power on the amps.

However, I've given up on the idea of recoding to HiFi. Benefits do not outweigh the negatives. I've now got a good REW sweep of the HU, and I think its enough for me to De_eq with my incoming Helix P6.....it has to be better than the poor job that the outgoing Audison did (it barely did anything to De-EQ, despite having de-eq functionality).

Thanks again for your advise.

When I've got a moment I'll post a screenshot of the factory EQ for others to see, as it might be usefull.

E92x7z · 06-03-2020, 05:00 PM

coded long ago to hi fi the power supply is from battery rem is from the lighter

ctuna · 06-03-2020, 08:42 PM

Yeah the helix should do it , it would use up some of the range
of the Helix though. I think 6spdcoupe normally does this he
and he owns a stereo shop.

Hiroyue · 06-08-2020, 10:48 AM

I’m with ctuna here I used the cigarette lighter power from under the glove box for the remote source. I had to use a Icom to get the head unit to to hifi I tried every trick to recode it without it. Some say If you have a good kdcan cable it may work.

Ali-E90 · 06-09-2020, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiroyue

I’m with ctuna here I used the cigarette lighter power from under the glove box for the remote source. I had to use a Icom to get the head unit to to hifi I tried every trick to recode it without it. Some say If you have a good kdcan cable it may work.

I didn't like using the cigarette for remote, requires car to be on for use.
Found a thread on this forum that pointed me to a wire to tap for remote to work on key insert (nonCA) rather than car start.

Cheers!

Zack1uk · 06-14-2020, 04:24 AM

Incidentally, I've been able to get a reasonably flat input EQ using the Helix P6 Mk2 DSP input EQ for my base stereo using high level. The OEM EQ was boosted massivley from about 1.5kHz (2 humps up to about 10dB), had a biggish hump at around 600Hz, an 8dB hump at about 70Hz, and what was most puzzling was two huge (up to 12dB) cuts with a very high Q at about 40Hz and 180Hz. The P6 has only 5 bands of EQ on the input, but by using the shelf filters I've got it to be within +/- 1.5dB, apart from one of the dips at 40Hz. I was wondering if the dips might be an applied all pass filter as the 180Hz corresponds to the handover point between the underseat midd bass and the door speakers, so applied an inverted all pass filter but that didn't do anything, so for some reason BMW have just added a couple of huge dips (unless of course my ADC just simply has two dead spots). Regardless, its now close enough for me to start EQing the outputs, and its much closer to flat than my old Audison DSP auto EQ was able to do.

fwiw, my HU (x1 E84 2014 CIC Nav) doesn't change either the shape nor magnitude of the OEM EQ with volume.

ctuna · 06-14-2020, 11:58 AM

In my Hi Fi system the underseat where working but there contribution
was almost non existent till I put some power to them then I could
get some muddy bass out of them . When I changed them out to Jehnerts
is when my lower end and mid range really came alive. I can only
imagine the base system is way worse . Plus they had to split Head Unit
power between the underseats and doors maybe they put that dip
in there because of power limitations.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ighlight=graph

Zack1uk · 06-18-2020, 04:01 AM

OK, so this is the un-eq'd electrical FR plot of front left (right is the same) speaker for my 2014 CIC I-drive Nav X1 E84 base stereo.

This is the EQ I applied using the Helix Input EQ:

Which resulted in this:

Not ideal, but with only 5 channels of EQ, getting nearly everything to +/- 1dB is good enough to take forward to accoustical output EQ.

That said I'd welcome any advice to improve it further, eg I suspect I could tweak the high shelf filter frequency and Q to to smooth out the 750 - 5kHz range, but not sure what to do as my trials introduced other issues.

Zack1uk · 06-18-2020, 04:15 AM

Fwiw my hardware is as follows:

Helix P6 DSP 6x100W powering tweets, mids, and mid bass (underseats), fed by High Level
Helix Director
Focal Solid 1 amp powering Sub
Tweeters: Vifa OT 19 on axis in sail panels, but also thinking of replacing these
Mids: Audifrog GB40 (very noticeable step up from teh L7s/HK I had in there before)
Mid Bass: Focal IFBMWSubV2. I know they don't go as low as others, but they have very good clarity and as I have a sub in the boot they are a midbass, not a sub.
Sub: Focal 27WX Utopia in a custom pod in the rear boot side panel (to be modified by increasing size and giving it a milkshake coating inside)

Will be tuned using REW and a Dayton UMM-6 Mic.

The director allows for up to 20 sound settings in the P6, so I'll be trying Audiofrog, Half Whiteledge and Jazzi house curves.

05-20-2020, 06:29 AM	#1
Zack1uk Private 12 Rep 55 Posts Drives: BMW X1 2014 2.0D Sdrive Msport Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Surrey iTrader: (0)	Base stereo, bse EQ - to recode or not recode Apologies if this has been asked befoe. I've searched (and searched), but there is a lot of conflicting info and much of it is 10 years old. 1) Does the base speaker sysyem (ie not Hifi or L7/HK) EQ stay the same throughout the volume (and vehicle speed) range or does it change? I have an Audison AP5.9 that De-EQs but ofc it only does it at a given volume, thats a major issue if the EQ changes at differing volumes (or speed). 2) I have CIC with basic nav. Could someone please point me towards a thread or guide on using ncsexpert or one of the phone apps to recode to HiFi. Or even the codes needed and I can learn the rest. 3) Can just the EQ be removed whilst retaining high level outputs (thinking of noise/hiss). 4) For those who have recoded to hifi, where did you take the amp/dsp remote turn on power wire from? Thanks in advance.
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06-01-2020, 07:00 AM	#2
Zack1uk Private 12 Rep 55 Posts Drives: BMW X1 2014 2.0D Sdrive Msport Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Surrey iTrader: (0)	Anyone.....honestly my head is spinning with 10 +years of threads that overlap with CIC/CCC/Idrive/Non-Idrive/Nav/Non-nav
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-01-2020, 01:16 PM	#3
ctuna Lieutenant General 2033 Rep 13,347 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	1) the eq is much flatter but is anything perfect. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=graph This reminds me I like to change the speed sensing volume to it's lowest setting. 2)CIC and CCC coding use different modules because they are different internal hardware. Also cars made after 3/07 are suppose to need the Icom cable to make coding changes to Most Bus modules . This has come up a lot with regards to the base to hi fi recodes. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=802793 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=stereo Read the above threads carefully there was confusion between idrive and pro radio . 3)No 4)The technic harness uses the 12 volt line in the Hi Fi setup that goes to the amp. But in the Base system there is no harness to the trunk let alone a 12 volt line that switches with sleep. People use signal sensing in there amps/dsp's to get this to work a lot of the time. Base System Upgrades http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1378833 base system wiring pre/post 3/09 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tDpLJPcGkw_ui_ http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1411521234 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=Dotech http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=550771 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445266 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=581379 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494299 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451941 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ht=amp+upgrade http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540954 http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003810 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822366 http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...morel-jbl.html http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1411521234 http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634957 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495855 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495855 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1411521234 http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634957 Last edited by ctuna; 06-01-2020 at 03:52 PM..
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06-01-2020, 06:57 PM	#5
ctuna Lieutenant General 2033 Rep 13,347 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	The 12 volt line on a Hi Fi harness equiped car to the amp probably does not even come from the Head Unit as it is used to power the amp. On that particualr setup the Technic Harness supply and additional relay the the power line from the to the Hi Fi amp is used to switch the relay which is hooked up to Power some how (power directly from the battery) Usually the better amps have some kind of turn on signal for the next amp in line. There are a bunch of DIY's on how to add a relay on ytube. Last edited by ctuna; 06-01-2020 at 07:12 PM..
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06-03-2020, 04:22 PM	#6
Zack1uk Private 12 Rep 55 Posts Drives: BMW X1 2014 2.0D Sdrive Msport Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Surrey iTrader: (0)	Thanks again Ctuna. No issues with sorting a relay. In fact today I have just wired one to turn on my fans and a 12v/5V regulator (for a bluetooth to SPDIF reciever in my boot), triggered by my Helix P6 remote output. I'm led to believe that the HU has a black wire for antenna power that can be used to power on the amps. However, I've given up on the idea of recoding to HiFi. Benefits do not outweigh the negatives. I've now got a good REW sweep of the HU, and I think its enough for me to De_eq with my incoming Helix P6.....it has to be better than the poor job that the outgoing Audison did (it barely did anything to De-EQ, despite having de-eq functionality). Thanks again for your advise. When I've got a moment I'll post a screenshot of the factory EQ for others to see, as it might be usefull.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-03-2020, 05:00 PM	#7
E92x7z Private First Class 21 Rep 131 Posts Drives: BMW e92 330 Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Bulgaria iTrader: (0)	coded long ago to hi fi the power supply is from battery rem is from the lighter
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06-03-2020, 08:42 PM	#8
ctuna Lieutenant General 2033 Rep 13,347 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Yeah the helix should do it , it would use up some of the range of the Helix though. I think 6spdcoupe normally does this he and he owns a stereo shop.
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06-08-2020, 10:48 AM	#9
Hiroyue Private 9 Rep 88 Posts Drives: 2010 328i Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Tampa FL iTrader: (0)	I’m with ctuna here I used the cigarette lighter power from under the glove box for the remote source. I had to use a Icom to get the head unit to to hifi I tried every trick to recode it without it. Some say If you have a good kdcan cable it may work.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-14-2020, 04:24 AM	#11
Zack1uk Private 12 Rep 55 Posts Drives: BMW X1 2014 2.0D Sdrive Msport Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Surrey iTrader: (0)	Incidentally, I've been able to get a reasonably flat input EQ using the Helix P6 Mk2 DSP input EQ for my base stereo using high level. The OEM EQ was boosted massivley from about 1.5kHz (2 humps up to about 10dB), had a biggish hump at around 600Hz, an 8dB hump at about 70Hz, and what was most puzzling was two huge (up to 12dB) cuts with a very high Q at about 40Hz and 180Hz. The P6 has only 5 bands of EQ on the input, but by using the shelf filters I've got it to be within +/- 1.5dB, apart from one of the dips at 40Hz. I was wondering if the dips might be an applied all pass filter as the 180Hz corresponds to the handover point between the underseat midd bass and the door speakers, so applied an inverted all pass filter but that didn't do anything, so for some reason BMW have just added a couple of huge dips (unless of course my ADC just simply has two dead spots). Regardless, its now close enough for me to start EQing the outputs, and its much closer to flat than my old Audison DSP auto EQ was able to do. fwiw, my HU (x1 E84 2014 CIC Nav) doesn't change either the shape nor magnitude of the OEM EQ with volume.
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06-14-2020, 11:58 AM	#12
ctuna Lieutenant General 2033 Rep 13,347 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	In my Hi Fi system the underseat where working but there contribution was almost non existent till I put some power to them then I could get some muddy bass out of them . When I changed them out to Jehnerts is when my lower end and mid range really came alive. I can only imagine the base system is way worse . Plus they had to split Head Unit power between the underseats and doors maybe they put that dip in there because of power limitations. https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ighlight=graph
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06-18-2020, 04:01 AM	#13
Zack1uk Private 12 Rep 55 Posts Drives: BMW X1 2014 2.0D Sdrive Msport Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Surrey iTrader: (0)	OK, so this is the un-eq'd electrical FR plot of front left (right is the same) speaker for my 2014 CIC I-drive Nav X1 E84 base stereo. This is the EQ I applied using the Helix Input EQ: Which resulted in this: Not ideal, but with only 5 channels of EQ, getting nearly everything to +/- 1dB is good enough to take forward to accoustical output EQ. That said I'd welcome any advice to improve it further, eg I suspect I could tweak the high shelf filter frequency and Q to to smooth out the 750 - 5kHz range, but not sure what to do as my trials introduced other issues.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-18-2020, 04:15 AM	#14
Zack1uk Private 12 Rep 55 Posts Drives: BMW X1 2014 2.0D Sdrive Msport Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Surrey iTrader: (0)	Fwiw my hardware is as follows: Helix P6 DSP 6x100W powering tweets, mids, and mid bass (underseats), fed by High Level Helix Director Focal Solid 1 amp powering Sub Tweeters: Vifa OT 19 on axis in sail panels, but also thinking of replacing these Mids: Audifrog GB40 (very noticeable step up from teh L7s/HK I had in there before) Mid Bass: Focal IFBMWSubV2. I know they don't go as low as others, but they have very good clarity and as I have a sub in the boot they are a midbass, not a sub. Sub: Focal 27WX Utopia in a custom pod in the rear boot side panel (to be modified by increasing size and giving it a milkshake coating inside) Will be tuned using REW and a Dayton UMM-6 Mic. The director allows for up to 20 sound settings in the P6, so I'll be trying Audiofrog, Half Whiteledge and Jazzi house curves.
	Appreciate 0 Quote