[kitw]

I just replaced my PROcede v3 with a JB3. I previously had a JB2 + JBX that I was not fond of, the on/off nature of the power made it hard to drive, and it pulled timing pretty badly in the higher gears, once you revved it out. Probably bad CA gas... but I digress.

I've been a v3 beta tester so I've had it April 08. I have always liked it although I had a few teething issues, as I'm sure all beta testers would. But, once I got a good set of maps, the car flew. It was pretty much everything I could want out of a tune, consistent without any funkiness. The power was very controllable, and it even performed great at the track when it was 105 outside.

The datalogging features were easy to use, once they were set up and it was good to get feedback on what the car is doing etc. After I got the production maps, I haven't had any issues at all... nothing that prompted me to sell it...

But, I'm a fickle guy and I like to try everything, so I ordered a JuiceBox3. Installation is a easier, but pretty much the same (you don't need to supply power to the JB3, does it use 5v??)

It worked great. I wasn't a beta tester for it, so the issues I had beta testing the PROcede (just little stumbles that Shiv took care of personally) wouldn't have been acceptable on a production JB3. I ended up not having one problem with the JB3, although I haven't gotten it onto the track yet.

It's very smooth and, seems almost exactly like the PROcede. It has slightly more linear throttle to boost control, like the earlier PROcede v3 maps, but that's something that Shiv can do for you if you like. It doesn't have the datalogging capabilities, or the user programmability of the PROcede v3, but it does just plug in and work, which I believe was Terry's goal.

I've only been running the JB3 for about 3 weeks, so haven't had time to dyno yet. My car made about 342 rwhp on crap summer gas on the PROcede and I'd be surprised if the JB3 was more than 5hp +/-. (not enough for my Butt dyno to pick up.) The power curves are more similar than different, at least from my non scientific driving tests. Both tunes make the 335i pull HARD, and more than anything else, feel like a large V8 rather than a turbo'd motor. This car feels NOTHING like an Evo/STI in terms of power delivery, while it doesn't have that big WHACK of the turbo coming on at 4000 rpm, the power builds very smoothly and sticks around to redline much more than the most other turbo cars.

I think it's a great alternative to the PROcede, although the PROcede does have some additional capabilities, like datalogging, and the ability to be user flashed, rather than changing a chip.

I like both products and am not a fanboi of either. Terry has done a great job, and I like the product, but I don't think PROcede owners should rush to switch since it doesn't buy you much over the PROcede... except that it's cheaper. JB2 and PROcede v1/2 owners should RUSH to buy either the V3 or the JB3, because they are so both light years ahead of the old style tunes in terms of throttle control, consistency and smoothness. There are no driveability issues, and power is easily regulated by your right foot. If you're still on an "old style" tune, SST, JB2, early PROcede, etc, please, try out a PROcede v3 or JB3 car, they really are amazing and world's better.

So, not a hugely useful review, but hopefully it clears up some stuff. PROcede v3 owners, you're not missing out on much, in terms of performance, JB3 owners, same thing.

[cn555ic]

great unbiased review!!

[MrWhite1015]

i have actually been trying to decide what tune to go with and I think you just made my decision for me.... JB3 ... when its back in stock... its been between JuiceBox Vishnu or Dinan... for the time being looks like im picking up a used JB2 this weekend... kinda just want the extra power for the drive down 2 BMFeast. thanks for the review.

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

great unbiased review!!

+100, best review we have had in a long while.

[MrWhite1015]

lol just placed myself on the wait list for Jb3 PnP ! once again thanks for the review !

[M3EST]

Nice review.Really explaining everything.

[BES335xi]

Nice Review.

[sflgator]

Great, unbiased review! Although I have not tried any of Terry's Juice Box products, it's kind of what I've said since JB3 came out (and we saw some reviews)...that JB3 and PROcede v3 are similar in power and design, but PROcede v3 is more $$ mainly b/c of the PROcede pc s/w, datalogging/diagnostic capabilities, user "tunability," tuning options, and scalability. If you don't need to or want to change things up now and then (w/o Terry sending you a new chip and installing it), then the JB3 is a good alternative for less $$. However, if you want all the power and like to change things up yourself and have more user control for current and future maps, etc., then PROcede v3 is king. From what I can tell, both a great products!

Originally Posted by kitw

I like both products and am not a fanboi of either. Terry has done a great job, and I like the product, but I don't think PROcede owners should rush to switch since it doesn't buy you much over the PROcede... except that it's cheaper. JB2 and PROcede v1/2 owners should RUSH to buy either the V3 or the JB3, because they are so both light years ahead of the old style tunes in terms of throttle control, consistency and smoothness. There are no driveability issues, and power is easily regulated by your right foot. If you're still on an "old style" tune, SST, JB2, early PROcede, etc, please, try out a PROcede v3 or JB3 car, they really are amazing and world's better.

So, not a hugely useful review, but hopefully it clears up some stuff. PROcede v3 owners, you're not missing out on much, in terms of performance, JB3 owners, same thing.

btw -- I love this quote ^^^^.

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Great, unbiased review! Although I have not tried any of Terry's Juice Box products, it's kind of what I've said since JB3 came out (and we saw some reviews)...that JB3 and PROcede v3 are similar in power and design, but PROcede v3 is more $$ mainly b/c of the PROcede pc s/w, datalogging/diagnostic capabilities, user "tunability," tuning options, and scalability. If you don't need to or want to change things up now and then (w/o having to send the JB3 unit back to Terry), then the JB3 is a good alternative for less $$. However, if you want all the power and like to change things up yourself and have more user control for current and future maps, etc., then PROcede v3 is king. From what I can tell, both a great products!

Just to clarify, you don't send anything back, he sends you out a new chip that simply snaps into the JB3.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

Just to clarify, you don't send anything back, he sends you out a new chip that simply snaps into the JB3.

Sorry; edited.

[mwahlert]

i prefer simplicity -



over this -

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Sorry; edited.

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by mwahlert

i prefer simplicity -

Interesting comparison, but I can tell you that there are arguments for each one.

JB3 can run off the power from the ECU because it was designed from the ground up FOR the N54.

The PROcede unit is simply a Haltech interceptor that is backwards engineered to be able to "fit" into our ECU box. I know there are special maps, firmware, etc. but the fact remains that it is a tuning platform for cars since the 90's (I believe).

That is why you see all of the extra stuff on the PROcede. It takes more power to run, it has a computer inside of it (essentially), and it is a widely used platform.

There are many other comparison I can make between the two but as far as simplicity goes that is why you see that difference.

[lucassilva]

Very nice review, and very much what I expected.
Can you do brief comparison on PSI on both tunes?
Are they running the same boost? Boost spykes during shifting?

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by lucassilva

Very nice review, and very much what I expected.
Can you do brief comparison on PSI on both tunes?
Are they running the same boost? Boost spykes during shifting?

They both run boost 14-15psi max with little-no spikes; JB3 may be ~0.5psi less, but I'm not sure.

[lucassilva]

It would interest me to see if the boost are that close. I am running V3 on low boost map i see spykes of 13.5 to 14.5... on High boost I seen 17.5 which is more than I a willing to do. Just wondering if JB3 can give you V3 High boost power on a little less boost. Running stage 2 btw.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by lucassilva

It would interest me to see if the boost are that close. I am running V3 on low boost map i see spykes of 13.5 to 14.5... on High boost I seen 17.5 which is more than I a willing to do. Just wondering if JB3 can give you V3 High boost power on a little less boost. Running stage 2 btw.

Are you sure that your 17.5psi boost spikes are accurate? And, if so, then do they only last ~ 0.5 sec. in between gear shifts? Either way, unless you're seeing somewhat sustained boost spikes that high, no worries. FWIW, I also think you're not in the norm if you're truly seeing those spikes w/ v3, although as I understand it, v3 stage 2 map does run slightly higher boost (which is ok) since you have the intake + catless DPs.

[shane335i]

I just bought a JB2 and after reading this I am thinking I might have made a mistake. I was actually getting ready to install it RIGHT NOW and am having second thoughts. I dont want something that is going to be really "on-off" or "jerky" when I am getting on the gas. Is this basically what you are saying it feels like with the JBS2? I am concerned about the high boost numbers on the Version 3 units from both manufacturers though which is why I went with the JBS2. Not saying anything negative as I know tons of people run them but I simply dont want to be "scared" that my turbos are being overworked by such high boost increases.

[Lane]

Originally Posted by shane335i

I just bought a JB2 and after reading this I am thinking I might have made a mistake. I was actually getting ready to install it RIGHT NOW and am having second thoughts. I dont want something that is going to be really "on-off" or "jerky" when I am getting on the gas. Is this basically what you are saying it feels like with the JBS2? I am concerned about the high boost numbers on the Version 3 units from both manufacturers though which is why I went with the JBS2. Not saying anything negative as I know tons of people run them but I simply dont want to be "scared" that my turbos are being overworked by such high boost increases.

You need to have proper gas to avoid jerkiness that might happen with any tuned 335i.

If you can adjust your right foot ankle position to more than 2 positions, your car will not be on-off.

If you would believe how much better the new stuff is (Procede/JB/any tune) you would begin to wonder how come anyone buys the stock 335i... There is some refinement going on, but the differences are not that big really. At its price range, you cannot beat JB2. Invest a grand more and then you can reconsider.

[usc335]

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

Interesting comparison, but I can tell you that there are arguments for each one.

JB3 can run off the power from the ECU because it was designed from the ground up FOR the N54.

The PROcede unit is simply a Haltech interceptor that is backwards engineered to be able to "fit" into our ECU box. I know there are special maps, firmware, etc. but the fact remains that it is a tuning platform for cars since the 90's (I believe).

That is why you see all of the extra stuff on the PROcede. It takes more power to run, it has a computer inside of it (essentially), and it is a widely used platform.

There are many other comparison I can make between the two but as far as simplicity goes that is why you see that difference.

First off, I do not have a tune and I am currently looking at my options. I have had several "modified" cars (including turbocharged cars), so I'm not new to this. I've been lurking on this forum for about two years, so I know the history of the PROcede and Juice Box products. I know I'm going to get bashed by fanboys, but here goes anyways...

You bring up some interesting points, but I tend to look at this differently. The PROcede (Haltech Intercepter) is a proven unit designed by a reputable company who know how to build something for automotive applications. The tune is provided by a company (Vishnu) that has a tuning track record on various platforms and (customer service notwithstanding) is considered to be a reputable "aftermarket tuner."

With all due respect to BMS and what they have accomplished in a short period of time, I question their credentials as an "aftermarket tuner" as opposed to a "backyard tuner." They have marketed themselves well and progressed from a protoboard, resistor-based boost controller to a microprocessor unit of their own design. But, I have several questions. Is the JB3 designed and built to withstand an automotive environment over a long term? What kind of testing has been performed on the JB3 (I referring to the unit itself)? Is it designed to be fail-safe? What exactly are BMS's tuning credentials? Does Terry Burger have a background in mechanical, electrical, and/or software engineering? Is he any more qualified to tune a car than I am? I am, quite frankly, surprised at the number of people who are willing to put Juice Box products on their $50K car without knowing the answers to these questions.

Once again, I have no loyalty to Vishnu, BMS, or any other company. This post is not meant to bash BMS, but is meant to raise what I feel are legitimate questions. The PROcede v3 and JB3 seem to have similar performance. So for me, it comes down to a question of features and scalability; price; and safety (which includes the quality of the "engineering"). As you can see, I'm leaning heavily towards the PROcede due to my questions above. If someone can please answer my questions, I would really appreciate it (because I haven't seen these questions answered before). Thank you.
Sorry

[5soko]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Are you sure that your 17.5psi boost spikes are accurate? And, if so, then do they only last ~ 0.5 sec. in between gear shifts? Either way, unless you're seeing somewhat sustained boost spikes that high, no worries. FWIW, I also think you're not in the norm if you're truly seeing those spikes w/ v3, although as I understand it, v3 stage 2 map does run slightly higher boost (which is ok) since you have the intake + catless DPs.

i agree.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by usc335

First off, I do not have a tune and I am currently looking at my options. I have had several "modified" cars (including turbocharged cars), so I'm not new to this. I've been lurking on this forum for about two years, so I know the history of the PROcede and Juice Box products. I know I'm going to get bashed by fanboys, but here goes anyways...

You bring up some interesting points, but I tend to look at this differently. The PROcede (Haltech Intercepter) is a proven unit designed by a reputable company who know how to build something for automotive applications. The tune is provided by a company (Vishnu) that has a tuning track record on various platforms and (customer service notwithstanding) is considered to be a reputable "aftermarket tuner."

With all due respect to BMS and what they have accomplished in a short period of time, I question their credentials as an "aftermarket tuner" as opposed to a "backyard tuner." They have marketed themselves well and progressed from a protoboard, resistor-based boost controller to a microprocessor unit of their own design. But, I have several questions. Is the JB3 designed and built to withstand an automotive environment over a long term? What kind of testing has been performed on the JB3 (I referring to the unit itself)? Is it designed to be fail-safe? What exactly are BMS's tuning credentials? Does Terry Burger have a background in mechanical, electrical, and/or software engineering? Is he any more qualified to tune a car than I am? I am, quite frankly, surprised at the number of people who are willing to put Juice Box products on their $50K car without knowing the answers to these questions.

Once again, I have no loyalty to Vishnu, BMS, or any other company. This post is not meant to bash BMS, but is meant to raise what I feel are legitimate questions. The PROcede v3 and JB3 seem to have similar performance. So for me, it comes down to a question of features and scalability; price; and safety (which includes the quality of the "engineering"). As you can see, I'm leaning heavily towards the PROcede due to my questions above. If someone can please answer my questions, I would really appreciate it (because I haven't seen these questions answered before). Thank you.
Sorry

Wanted to throw in my 2c to give BMS some credit here...

It's been covered many times, but BMS consists of Terry, Jon, Russ, Eric, and some part time labor. Terry has a degree in computer science, Russ is an electrical engineer, Jon is also computer science, and Eric has a degree in architecture. There are not many tuning shops around with 4 bachelors degrees on board, most have none, for what its worth. Not that education counts for everything. But clearly their experience shows in the performance of the products. Terry has been tuning for 12 years, and AFAIK the others have been involved in tuning for a couple years.

As far as technical questions on the environmental testing of the JB3, you'll need to refer them to Terry. The hardware itself seems to be solid, there are 300 out in the field plus whatever they beta tested with. They also provide a warranty on the hardware.

The question becomes is the software as good as Vishnu... I am biased and think its better but people who have tried both more often than not comment about how similar they are.