[TheMidnightNarwhal]

I'm really interesting in getting meth for my car since E85 isn't really something common in Canada and I want more HP without changing out the turbos.

There doesn't seem much info around here though does anyone have meth and can anyone recommend a good route to go with? I assume custom tune will be needed to.

Like there is all these different stage kits but not sure what to go for on stock turbos.

[Torgus]

You want a kit with real failsafes imo. Otherwise it is literally spray and pray. You get a clog? You can loose your engine in theory as you are relying on the meth as fuel and you go instantly SUPER lean.

Check out aquamist HS4: http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-0...ystem-to-date/

Designed for the n54 DI engine. It has basically everything you could want. But you pay for it. That is what I run. has a nice gauge and you can press a button to turn it on or off, flow sensor, low fluid warning light, etc.

You will want to get a custom tune to take advantage of it. Good news they cost next to nothing.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Torgus

You want a kit with real failsafes imo. Otherwise it is literally spray and pray. You get a clog? You can loose your engine in theory as you are relying on the meth as fuel and you go instantly SUPER lean.

Check out aquamist HS4: http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-0...ystem-to-date/

Designed for the n54 DI engine. It has basically everything you could want. But you pay for it. That is what I run. has a nice gauge and you can press a button to turn it on or off, flow sensor, low fluid warning light, etc.

You will want to get a custom tune to take advantage of it. Good news they cost next to nothing.

Since I've made this post I've learned quite a lot and was currently eyeing the AEM Water/Methanol Injection Kit V2. But yeah I was wondering if a clog does occur I don't think that one does have a safety in that way.

I also shoot an email to Wedge for a custom tune and how it would work out with meth because on their website they didn't have listed for meth. But I assume since meth would boost octane it relates to a high octane tune?

I'm just not sure how much WHP can you do on meth and stock turbos. I also don't want to make my turbos instantly die either although I am ready/expect to have their lifespan shortened. Is 500whp realistic goal?

[Jeef]

do you have access to race gas? 100+ octane? you could mix or run that.

set up a nice port meth injection if you want to use it for power. some people tap the stock manifolds as well.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Jeef

do you have access to race gas? 100+ octane? you could mix or run that.

set up a nice port meth injection if you want to use it for power. some people tap the stock manifolds as well.

No I do not. But just using race gas isn't enough tho? Don't you need colder denser air from the meth which gives you way more potential than just high octane?

[Jeef]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

No I do not. But just using race gas isn't enough tho? Don't you need colder denser air from the meth which gives you way more potential than just high octane?

if you want to lower your temps even lower sure, setup a charge pipe injection with smaller nozzles and use it to cool your IAT's, but if you run a nice intercooler you should be fine.

[Soden82]

Twisted tuning has some good direct port meth packages. I haven't purchased one yet but am planning to use them, with a failsafe device as well

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Jeef

if you want to lower your temps even lower sure, setup a charge pipe injection with smaller nozzles and use it to cool your IAT's, but if you run a nice intercooler you should be fine.

I have the VRSF 7.5inch. I'm just looking at making more power without upgrading turbos. Maybe meth isn't the way to go? Ethanol also isn't option nor race gas.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

I have the VRSF 7.5inch. I'm just looking at making more power without upgrading turbos. Maybe meth isn't the way to go? Ethanol also isn't option nor race gas.

Meth IS the way to go. You do not need direct port on stock twins. Put two appropriate sized nozzles in your charge pipe and you will be fine.

Just get a meth kit which instantly opens the wastegates if there is any interruption in flow. With outlets inlets and cp meth and a custom tune you should hit over 450whp peak. If you want to get close to 500whp I would do dp meth but you are just killing the turbos turning them into hot air blowers. They will not last long.

I like you have no e85 access worth talking about. Race gas is stupid to use or tune for and insanely expensive and hard to get. Meth is the only solution to add octane and you get the added benefit of cold AITs which also help reduce knock with the added octane and also keep the car super consistent as you are not batteling high AITs from the hair dryers giving you timing drops as the ambient temperature changes or things heat soak.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Meth IS the way to go. You do not need direct port on stock twins. Put two appropriate sized nozzles in your charge pipe and you will be fine.

Just get a meth kit which instantly opens the wastegates if there is any interruption in flow. With outlets inlets and cp meth and a custom tune you should hit over 450whp peak. If you want to get close to 500whp I would do dp meth but you are just killing the turbos turning them into hot air blowers. They will not last long.

I like you have no e85 access worth talking about. Race gas is stupid to use or tune for and insanely expensive and hard to get. Meth is the only solution to add octane and you get the added benefit of cold AITs which also help reduce knock with the added octane and also keep the car super consistent as you are not batteling high AITs from the hair dryers giving you timing drops as the ambient temperature changes or things heat soak.

Oh that would be great but what kits do that?

So if I just add inlet and outlet right now without meth instead and custom tune I'll be able to do 450whp? And meth would add a +50 on that?

As for turbo life yeah they'll die quicker but how quicker? Like really quick or?

[Torgus]

Inlets will help a good deal I would start with those and a custom tune.

Outlets are a minimal gain on stock turbos if any...I am skeptical personally but why not have them installed at the same time if you want to max out your stock turbos.

As far as meth kits with real safeties jb4 + meth, twistedtuning has a solution, aquamist hs4 if you want the best. There are probably more that have some built in safety...just my opinion.

Given you have no e85 access you will need all these mods if you ever upgrade your twins. Meth kit will work with your single.

[Soden82]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Just get a meth kit which instantly opens the wastegates if there is any interruption in flow. With outlets inlets and cp meth and a custom tune you should hit over 450whp peak. If you want to get close to 500whp I would do dp meth but you are just killing the turbos turning them into hot air blowers. They will not last long.

If things go accordingly I will be going DP meth on stock turbos. Shooting for high 4xxs with that setup. Not worried if my twins blow up cause I'm going to go single in the future anyways

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Soden82

If things go accordingly I will be going DP meth on stock turbos. Shooting for high 4xxs with that setup. Not worried if my twins blow up cause I'm going to go single in the future anyways

Then you will already have DP meth and will just have to change out the nozzles for larger when you go to your single which is great. However the cost of the nozzles would be the only reason I would say start with CP meth. You can still flow a fair amount of meth in the CP and be fine. I inject ~1200cc with 2 nozzles in my CP.

The aquamist check ball'd nozzles are £36.16 or $45 each. $270 bucks on nozzles alone.

I am sure you can find cheaper check ball jets/nozzles.


How do you like your ATM exhaust?

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Inlets will help a good deal I would start with those and a custom tune.

Outlets are a minimal gain on stock turbos if any...I am skeptical personally but why not have them installed at the same time if you want to max out your stock turbos.

As far as meth kits with real safeties jb4 + meth, twistedtuning has a solution, aquamist hs4 if you want the best. There are probably more that have some built in safety...just my opinion.

Given you have no e85 access you will need all these mods if you ever upgrade your twins. Meth kit will work with your single.

Ok I see. For a failsafe is it that needed? Clogged nozzels don't happen often I assume and the DME of the car is intelligent enough to not blow itself right if something ever happens?

I wasn't aware E85 or meth was needed with upgraded turbos but it makes sense. I mean I guess you could run without it but you really wouldn't be taking the full potential of the upgrade right?

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Ok I see. For a failsafe is it that needed? Clogged nozzels don't happen often I assume and the DME of the car is intelligent enough to not blow itself right if something ever happens?

Not often, but they happen. I have personally seen a meth kit on a ST get blockage. A tiny tiny piece of foil from whatever ww canister he was using to put in his tank fell in. Boom clog, SUPER tiny. Luckily the 2nd meth filter after the tank caught it. You start with a filter that is larger and then go down in size to filter out more and more particulates.

I am SUPER diligent about making sure no dirt etc. gets in my meth tank but over the years I have seen some very small debris at the bottom of my tank.

Generally you want at least 2-3 meth filters in your system. One in the tank, one after the pump, one after the FAV/flow sensor. You don't HAVE to do this but a filter is cheap as fuck.

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-2...k-adaptor-use/

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-2...-low-pressure/

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-2...-low-pressure/

If you think it is safe to run with a flow sensor, FAV, etc. go for it. I wouldn't, Engines are expensive, meth kits are cheap. Why anyone would want to run without correct fail safes is beyond my understanding. I would want as many fail safes as possible if it means I get to keep my engine in one piece. The DME is intelligent to a degree, but if you have DP meth for instance and one nozzle clogs the DME will not see it, cylinder goes lean, temps through the roof, you melt your piston, this is why you want your meth filters. I would rather not rely and hope the DME will save itself vs. a failsafe.

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

I wasn't aware E85 or meth was needed with upgraded turbos but it makes sense. I mean I guess you could run without it but you really wouldn't be taking the full potential of the upgrade right?

They aren't. But without some form of octane booster upgraded twins max out around 500whp on 93, don't believe what vendors claim on 93. This is because they blow so much damn hot air. You need E85 of Meth to combat knock. A larger single turbo will make more power on 93 alone because it blows cooler air which is less likely to predetonate. Even on a large single you will still be limited unless you go with a monster ST and have a very small powerband. I think the n54 record was just north of 700 on 93 alone but it's a huge ass turbo made to make 1000whp with proper fueling.

[type-dRew]

for what its worth, i slammed an assortment of random water meth kit parts i had laying around onto my car to combat summer heat

1 640cc nozzle in the chargepipe and a mix probably close to 70meth/30water and I get massive amount of cooling wide open, approx 15 degrees or cooler than ambient even if im pulling down from sitting in traffic over 150 degrees.

i am not tuned for and it works fantastic, took an afternoon and if i had to value the parts i installed, probably $250 total.

i am not utilizing it fully, but just the charge temps and creating my own DA in the charge pipe is worth it.

if i was taking it further, id want a jb4 or an integrated solution like the twisted tuning flowguard that uses mhd flex fuel module to give you two separate maps for when you are and are not flowing meth.

for the record, i have an excellent FMIC and i would consider this a massive improvement over fmic alone. so no i wouldn't say an fmic replaces 'cooling only' water meth

[Soden82]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Then you will already have DP meth and will just have to change out the nozzles for larger when you go to your single which is great. However the cost of the nozzles would be the only reason I would say start with CP meth. You can still flow a fair amount of meth in the CP and be fine. I inject ~1200cc with 2 nozzles in my CP.

The aquamist check ball'd nozzles are £36.16 or $45 each. $270 bucks on nozzles alone.

I am sure you can find cheaper check ball jets/nozzles.


How do you like your ATM exhaust?

I'll consider going CP injection. Haven't done tremendous research yet into some DP setups and CP setups but I know the best atomization is directly into the cylinders and that the CP can have some condensation occur with the possibility of uneven spraying.

At the stock turbo power level it probably won't make a difference if it's CP or DP, but single turbo it would.

Funny, I actually haven't gotten around to installing the ATM exhaust yet. Been doing a couple other small projects on the car and trying to get my maintenance in order before adding mods.

I'll let you know my thoughts on it when I install it. Might be a few weekends from now.

[type-dRew]

Originally Posted by Soden82

I'll consider going CP injection. Haven't done tremendous research yet into some DP setups and CP setups but I know the best atomization is directly into the cylinders and that the CP can have some condensation occur with the possibility of uneven spraying.

At the stock turbo power level it probably won't make a difference if it's CP or DP, but single turbo it would.

Funny, I actually haven't gotten around to installing the ATM exhaust yet. Been doing a couple other small projects on the car and trying to get my maintenance in order before adding mods.

I'll let you know my thoughts on it when I install it. Might be a few weekends from now.

It's the opposite

You get larger droplets the closer you are to the cylinder.

Charge pipe has more atomization and more time for it dissipate heat.

That said. On these cars. Either location is pretty damn close to the ports, so it'll all work for fuel unless you put the nozzle closer to the intercooler. That's why multiple nozzle locations is best, they all have different functions

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Not often, but they happen. I have personally seen a meth kit on a ST get blockage. A tiny tiny piece of foil from whatever ww canister he was using to put in his tank fell in. Boom clog, SUPER tiny. Luckily the 2nd meth filter after the tank caught it. You start with a filter that is larger and then go down in size to filter out more and more particulates.

I am SUPER diligent about making sure no dirt etc. gets in my meth tank but over the years I have seen some very small debris at the bottom of my tank.

Generally you want at least 2-3 meth filters in your system. One in the tank, one after the pump, one after the FAV/flow sensor. You don't HAVE to do this but a filter is cheap as fuck.

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-2...k-adaptor-use/

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-2...-low-pressure/

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-2...-low-pressure/

If you think it is safe to run with a flow sensor, FAV, etc. go for it. I wouldn't, Engines are expensive, meth kits are cheap. Why anyone would want to run without correct fail safes is beyond my understanding. I would want as many fail safes as possible if it means I get to keep my engine in one piece. The DME is intelligent to a degree, but if you have DP meth for instance and one nozzle clogs the DME will not see it, cylinder goes lean, temps through the roof, you melt your piston, this is why you want your meth filters. I would rather not rely and hope the DME will save itself vs. a failsafe.





They aren't. But without some form of octane booster upgraded twins max out around 500whp on 93, don't believe what vendors claim on 93. This is because they blow so much damn hot air. You need E85 of Meth to combat knock. A larger single turbo will make more power on 93 alone because it blows cooler air which is less likely to predetonate. Even on a large single you will still be limited unless you go with a monster ST and have a very small powerband. I think the n54 record was just north of 700 on 93 alone but it's a huge ass turbo made to make 1000whp with proper fueling.

For sure I also look at it with the most failsafes the better but at the same time I don't want to pay for some fail safes that are only there for a 0.1% risk know what I mean.


Maybe I'm just confused right now about what can go bad. If I get the AEM gauge for failsafe and if I see it fail I'd just have to let go of throttle and should be fine right? Or not even? I know everything happens so quick but yeah.

Also about turbo life how drastic is it worsened? If I don't always floor it then it's not gonna do more wear right.

It's just a lot to take in. I wanted something straightforward and doesn't seem like it will be. I'll look again at the aquamist website but holy shit the website is terrible.

[Soden82]

Originally Posted by type-dRew

It's the opposite

You get larger droplets the closer you are to the cylinder.

Charge pipe has more atomization and more time for it dissipate heat.

That said. On these cars. Either location is pretty damn close to the ports, so it'll all work for fuel unless you put the nozzle closer to the intercooler. That's why multiple nozzle locations is best, they all have different functions

So from what you just said, the ideal methanol setup would be direct port meth AND adding a secondary injection site at the charge pipe.

[type-dRew]

Originally Posted by Soden82

So from what you just said, the ideal methanol setup would be direct port meth AND adding a secondary injection site at the charge pipe.

Ideally yes, you get temperature control and octane.

Downside is, you have more things to go wrong and more things to keep tabs on

Honestly keeping it simple is best. Chargepipe injection is enough for 99%

[Jeef]

as suggested before run higher octane and use meth to cool IAT's. methanol is around $8/gallon any way, close to race gas pricing. either way you'll be buying this stuff by the drum.

You can flood as much meth through the charge pipes but won't be even distribution. not ideal but it works..