[tolbert]

Car: 2006 E90 325i, 155k miles
Issue: Crank, start, run for 3 seconds, dies. Will not run longer than approximately 3 seconds.

Here is the story. Scroll down to RECAP for tl;dr.


A few weeks ago I was backing out of a parking spot, when the car abruptly shut off with a jerk and a bad sounding noise from the engine. The car was in reverse, and my foot was on the brake waiting for other cars to pass, so the car was not moving when this happened. The belt tensioner bolt head had snapped off, causing the serpentine belt to wrap itself around the crankshaft and choke down the engine. The belt did not shred or snap, it was only wrapped around the crankshaft between the pulley and the engine block. I replaced both the belt and tensioner, and the car started for a moment, but roughly shut off after a few seconds.

I scanned for codes using Torque on my phone, and had code “2a9a crankshaft-inlet camshaft synchronization". I understand that the serpentine belt can get sucked into the engine when it snaps off and cause major damage, however that did not happen here. I thought that perhaps when the belt wrapped around the crankshaft, the abrupt stopping of the engine caused some timing issue and that was the reason it would not start.

The next thing I did was swap the intake camshaft sensor with the exhaust camshaft sensor to see if the code swapped over to exhaust, but it remained on intake. I then replaced the intake camshaft sensor with a new one. This did not change anything either. I then verified that the sensor was receiving 5 volts to rule out a possible wiring issue, so the sensors are getting correct power. This then led me to believe that the timing in fact was affected. Before jumping to this, we tested some basics such as fuel pressure and the fuel pump. The fuel pump was reading 12v and the fuel rail pressure test was reporting 72 psi. The fuel pump fuse was also checked and working. We felt comfortable ruling out a fuel pump issue, so we moved on to retime the engine.

I purchased the n52 timing tool, and with some help, I retimed the engine. While the valve cover was off, I went ahead and replaced the eccentric shaft sensor while I was at it. I followed the instructions using ISTA+ in addition to YouTube videos and other how to guides, myself and my buddy feel confident we did the timing correctly. After retiming the engine, we thought it would start and the code would go away, however nothing changed. It would crank, start, die, and just crank over and over again. After re scanning with ISTA+, the 2A9A intake camshaft sensor code has gone from “Present: Yes” to “Present: No”.

After this, I decided to invest in a compression tester. The compression test didn’t go quite well, mainly because I ended up killing my starter in the process due to a defective battery tender, so then I had to replace the starter. For the cylinders I was able to check, they were reporting appropriate numbers, however I plan on doing another compression test again to make sure.

Around the same time, I noticed that the spark plugs were wet with fuel and this made me think perhaps they had fouled from trying to start the engine so many times. They were replaced at ~135K miles so I did not think they would go bad so soon, however to rule it out I went ahead and replaced the spark plugs too.

While I waited for my new starter, I continued researching and found a lot of people having the same issue, where the car will start and immediately die, or will simply crank and never start. The majority of people who had this issue, according to my research, said replacing the fuel pump fixed the issue. So I caved in and replaced the fuel pump. I thought that perhaps it was getting just enough fuel built up to start the engine, but that there was insufficient fuel getting to the engine after that, and that might explain why it starts very briefly after a long crank and then dies. However, after replacing the fuel pump, the car will still not stay running, it will start and run for approximately 3 seconds and immediately die. It was the original fuel pump that I replaced, so I am not too upset about replacing it with a new one as I see it as a preventative measure.

I am at the point where I feel like I have narrowed it down and done as much as I can not to throw parts at it, however I am not sure what else to do at this point besides take it to a shop. Any help or comments are appreciated. I am not a mechanic but I have been able to perform all of the above through research and the help of a few others who know a little bit about cars in general, but not BMW’s specifically.

After the first 2 weekends working on this car I would have just taken it to an indy but since I am working from home due to COVID and really don’t need a car right now, I opted to work on the car when I can in hopes of saving some money and learning a lot about my car in the process which is something I have always wanted to do. However, I am going on 6 weeks now without my car and I am not sure where to go from here.


RECAP:

Car: 2006 E90 325i, 155k miles
Issue: Crank, start, runs for 3 seconds, dies. Will not run longer than approximately 3 seconds.

Things I HAVE done/tested:

1. Attempt to start with MAF disconnected
2. Replaced spark plugs
3. Replaced fuel pump
4. Checked fuel pump fuse in glovebox
5. Replaced/swapped intake camshaft sensor with new sensor/exhaust sensor
6. Verified 5V to camshaft sensors
7. Swapped/cleaned VANOS solenoids
8. Cleaned VANOS exhaust filters
9. Re-timed engine
10. Replaced eccentric shaft sensor
11. Re-learned valvetronic motor position using ISTA+
12. Replace starter (unrelated, broke during troubleshooting)
13. Start car with pedal to floor
14. Try to keep car running with starter fluid (still dies, does not help)
15. Ran EKPS fuel relay test using ISTA+

Things I have NOT done/tested:

1. Check/replace fuel filter
2. Check/replace fuel injectors
3. Replace VANOS solenoids
4. Replace fuel pump relay
5. Perform leak-down test
6. Double check compression (starter died during first test and could not continue)
7. Checked/replaced crankshaft sensor (I assume the car would not crank at all if this were defective)

Once again, any help is appreciated.

[F31B48]

Have you tried putting the valvetronic into emergency full lift mode and running it? To do this you just have to unplug the eccentric shaft sensor or the differential pressure sensor on the intake manifold and then try to start the engine. Also, have you checked your fuel pressure and verified it is within spec?

[F31B48]

Originally Posted by tolbert

Car: 2006 E90 325i, 155k miles
Issue: Crank, start, run for 3 seconds, dies. Will not run longer than approximately 3 seconds.

Here is the story. Scroll down to RECAP for tl;dr.


A few weeks ago I was backing out of a parking spot, when the car abruptly shut off with a jerk and a bad sounding noise from the engine. The car was in reverse, and my foot was on the brake waiting for other cars to pass, so the car was not moving when this happened. The belt tensioner bolt head had snapped off, causing the serpentine belt to wrap itself around the crankshaft and choke down the engine. The belt did not shred or snap, it was only wrapped around the crankshaft between the pulley and the engine block. I replaced both the belt and tensioner, and the car started for a moment, but roughly shut off after a few seconds.

I scanned for codes using Torque on my phone, and had code “2a9a crankshaft-inlet camshaft synchronization". I understand that the serpentine belt can get sucked into the engine when it snaps off and cause major damage, however that did not happen here. I thought that perhaps when the belt wrapped around the crankshaft, the abrupt stopping of the engine caused some timing issue and that was the reason it would not start.

The next thing I did was swap the intake camshaft sensor with the exhaust camshaft sensor to see if the code swapped over to exhaust, but it remained on intake. I then replaced the intake camshaft sensor with a new one. This did not change anything either. I then verified that the sensor was receiving 5 volts to rule out a possible wiring issue, so the sensors are getting correct power. This then led me to believe that the timing in fact was affected. Before jumping to this, we tested some basics such as fuel pressure and the fuel pump. The fuel pump was reading 12v and the fuel rail pressure test was reporting 72 psi. The fuel pump fuse was also checked and working. We felt comfortable ruling out a fuel pump issue, so we moved on to retime the engine.

I purchased the n52 timing tool, and with some help, I retimed the engine. While the valve cover was off, I went ahead and replaced the eccentric shaft sensor while I was at it. I followed the instructions using ISTA+ in addition to YouTube videos and other how to guides, myself and my buddy feel confident we did the timing correctly. After retiming the engine, we thought it would start and the code would go away, however nothing changed. It would crank, start, die, and just crank over and over again. After re scanning with ISTA+, the 2A9A intake camshaft sensor code has gone from “Present: Yes” to “Present: No”.

After this, I decided to invest in a compression tester. The compression test didn’t go quite well, mainly because I ended up killing my starter in the process due to a defective battery tender, so then I had to replace the starter. For the cylinders I was able to check, they were reporting appropriate numbers, however I plan on doing another compression test again to make sure.

Around the same time, I noticed that the spark plugs were wet with fuel and this made me think perhaps they had fouled from trying to start the engine so many times. They were replaced at ~135K miles so I did not think they would go bad so soon, however to rule it out I went ahead and replaced the spark plugs too.

While I waited for my new starter, I continued researching and found a lot of people having the same issue, where the car will start and immediately die, or will simply crank and never start. The majority of people who had this issue, according to my research, said replacing the fuel pump fixed the issue. So I caved in and replaced the fuel pump. I thought that perhaps it was getting just enough fuel built up to start the engine, but that there was insufficient fuel getting to the engine after that, and that might explain why it starts very briefly after a long crank and then dies. However, after replacing the fuel pump, the car will still not stay running, it will start and run for approximately 3 seconds and immediately die. It was the original fuel pump that I replaced, so I am not too upset about replacing it with a new one as I see it as a preventative measure.

I am at the point where I feel like I have narrowed it down and done as much as I can not to throw parts at it, however I am not sure what else to do at this point besides take it to a shop. Any help or comments are appreciated. I am not a mechanic but I have been able to perform all of the above through research and the help of a few others who know a little bit about cars in general, but not BMW’s specifically.

After the first 2 weekends working on this car I would have just taken it to an indy but since I am working from home due to COVID and really don’t need a car right now, I opted to work on the car when I can in hopes of saving some money and learning a lot about my car in the process which is something I have always wanted to do. However, I am going on 6 weeks now without my car and I am not sure where to go from here.


RECAP:

Car: 2006 E90 325i, 155k miles
Issue: Crank, start, runs for 3 seconds, dies. Will not run longer than approximately 3 seconds.

Things I HAVE done/tested:

1. Attempt to start with MAF disconnected
2. Replaced spark plugs
3. Replaced fuel pump
4. Checked fuel pump fuse in glovebox
5. Replaced/swapped intake camshaft sensor with new sensor/exhaust sensor
6. Verified 5V to camshaft sensors
7. Swapped/cleaned VANOS solenoids
8. Cleaned VANOS exhaust filters
9. Re-timed engine
10. Replaced eccentric shaft sensor
11. Re-learned valvetronic motor position using ISTA+
12. Replace starter (unrelated, broke during troubleshooting)
13. Start car with pedal to floor
14. Try to keep car running with starter fluid (still dies, does not help)
15. Ran EKPS fuel relay test using ISTA+

Things I have NOT done/tested:

1. Check/replace fuel filter
2. Check/replace fuel injectors
3. Replace VANOS solenoids
4. Replace fuel pump relay
5. Perform leak-down test
6. Double check compression (starter died during first test and could not continue)
7. Checked/replaced crankshaft sensor (I assume the car would not crank at all if this were defective)

Once again, any help is appreciated.

Have you tried putting the valvetronic into emergency full lift mode and running it? To do this you just have to unplug the eccentric shaft sensor or the differential pressure sensor on the intake manifold and then try to start the engine and see if it changes in anyway.

[tolbert]

Originally Posted by EvaBmw

Have you tried putting the valvetronic into emergency full lift mode and running it? To do this you just have to unplug the eccentric shaft sensor or the differential pressure sensor on the intake manifold and then try to start the engine and see if it changes in anyway.

Thanks for your response. I do not believe I have tried this. Last night I did reset the valvetronic motor by turning it counter clockwise until it stopped, and then disconnected the plug and tried to start it (I saw a youtube video where this started the car) but this did nothing.

Is this what you are talking about, or are you saying to unplug the eccentric shaft sensor, which is located inside the valve cover? If so, I have not tried that either, and what would that indicate is the issue if my car started after disconnecting it?

Thanks again.

[tolbert]

EDIT: Also I have not tried to unplug the differential pressure sensor on the intake manifold, never heard of this before either so that helps give me another place to look. Again, what would this indicate if disconnecting this started the car?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by tolbert

[B]Car: 2006 E90 325i, 155k miles
Issue: Crank, start, run for 3 seconds, dies. Will not run longer than approximately 3 seconds. A few weeks ago I was backing out of a parking spot, when the car abruptly shut off with a jerk and a bad sounding noise from the engine. The car was in reverse, and my foot was on the brake waiting for other cars to pass, so the car was not moving when this happened. The belt tensioner bolt head had snapped off, causing the serpentine belt to wrap itself around the crankshaft and choke down the engine. The belt did not shred or snap, it was only wrapped around the crankshaft between the pulley and the engine block. I replaced both the belt and tensioner, and the car started for a moment, but roughly shut off after a few seconds.
I scanned for codes using Torque on my phone, and had code “2a9a crankshaft-inlet camshaft synchronization"...

My SWAG is that the broken or displaced Serpentine Belt, and/or Belt Tensioner contacted the wiring loom carrying the Intake Camshaft Position Sensor Wiring, or a Connector, and damaged one of the THREE wires which go to the Sensor Connector, X6214. See the wiring to that connector and the Intake Camshaft Sensor, B6214a, in this TIS wiring diagram. Explanation of diagram & suggested tests are below:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ording/hxCHGvd

Your "Replay" of events when the belt broke suggests you believe it was the belt wrapped around the Crankshaft pulley that caused the engine to "abruptly shut off with a jerk", and you believed this "choked down the engine". My interpretation of those events differs based upon the following. These observations are based upon how the wiring to the Intake Camshaft Position Sensor is routed on my late 2007 328xi:

1) I do NOT think that a serpentine belt wrapped around the Crankshaft Pulley, or even wedged between the rear of the crank pulley and front of crankcase, would "choke down" the engine or provide sufficient resistance to rotation of the pulley to stop the engine. MOST it would do is produce a "screech" or slipping belt sound, with burning rubber odor.

2)In NO case I have read on any Forum has anyone described a broken or dislodged serpentine belt "choking down" or stopping the engine. Almost invariably, the unsuspecting motorist continues merrily onward for a time before realizing that he has NO Power Steering Assist, and/or he has a "Battery" warning light due to lack of Alternator Function.

3) You describe IDENTICAL symptoms after removing & replacing the OLD belt. For the engine to start and run properly for several seconds, and then shut down, suggests an electrical wiring/ connector fault, possibly intermittent. You do NOT have any possible physical restriction of Crankshaft Rotation after belt replacement, and YET, you have SAME condition. PLUS you have (presumably recurring every time engine shuts down) "2A9a" Fault Code.

4) Here are Bentley Definition of that Fault Code, BMW Fault Code Lookup Definition, and Fault Information sheet Link. NOTE the latter states in "Service Notes: "1. Check signal wire for short to positive, ground, open wire."
P0341 | 2A9A | Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Performance (Bank 1)
P0341 | 2A9A | DME: Crankshaft - inlet camshaft, synchronization | MSV70
http://www.bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagVie...QANAA4ADAANAA=

5) The Camshaft Position Sensor wiring loom and connector are positioned directly above the Crankshaft Pulley AND the A/C Compressor Pulley on the N52 Engine, on the FRONT of the crankcase/ "Timing Cover", and the fact that there were NO issues with engine operation BEFORE the Belt dislodged, AND it has continued to shut down after Startup ever since, HAS to be more than a coincidence. Keep in mind that the DME CANNOT time Ignition Spark and Injector Pulse on Crankshaft Sensor signal alone, as it has NO way of knowing Cam/Valve Position, or "which stroke" the pistons are on (e.g. Exhaust vs. Compression).

I would do the following Visual & Electrical Tests:
1) Carefully inspect the wiring loom for the Intake Camshaft Sensor, and all connectors or connector mounts, for ANY sign of contact/ damage by the belt or tensioner.
2) Electrically TEST each of the THREE wires at Connector X6214:
a) Orange wire at Pin #3 should be 12V+ (Terminal 87 system voltage w/Ignition ON);
b) Yellow wire, Pin #1, should be 5V with Ignition ON;
c) Black/Blue wire, Pin #2, should be a "wave signal" or pulse from sensor to DME.
3) Check Continuity (and also for short to ground or to 12V+) of each of two wires that go to DME Connector X60007, by opening the E-Box and removing the Connector from the DME.

Here are TIS Links for Installation Location for Cam Sensor, Connector View for Sensor 3-pin Connector, and Installation Location & Connector View for X60007 in the E-box:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...sensor/SLoqvgY
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/Cjp8ftvv
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...007/1VnZAHHjcD
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...60007/CSvD6ySM

While doing visual inspection, also check the two coolant hoses next to the belt for any indication of contact/damage.

Please let us know what you find,
George

[tolbert]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

My SWAG is that the broken or displaced Serpentine Belt, and/or Belt Tensioner contacted the wiring loom carrying the Intake Camshaft Position Sensor Wiring, or a Connector, and damaged one of the THREE wires which go to the Sensor Connector, X6214. See the wiring to that connector and the Intake Camshaft Sensor, B6214a, in this TIS wiring diagram. Explanation of diagram & suggested tests are below:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ording/hxCHGvd

Your "Replay" of events when the belt broke suggests you believe it was the belt wrapped around the Crankshaft pulley that caused the engine to "abruptly shut off with a jerk", and you believed this "choked down the engine". My interpretation of those events differs based upon the following. These observations are based upon how the wiring to the Intake Camshaft Position Sensor is routed on my late 2007 328xi:

1) I do NOT think that a serpentine belt wrapped around the Crankshaft Pulley, or even wedged between the rear of the crank pulley and front of crankcase, would "choke down" the engine or provide sufficient resistance to rotation of the pulley to stop the engine. MOST it would do is produce a "screech" or slipping belt sound, with burning rubber odor.

2)In NO case I have read on any Forum has anyone described a broken or dislodged serpentine belt "choking down" or stopping the engine. Almost invariably, the unsuspecting motorist continues merrily onward for a time before realizing that he has NO Power Steering Assist, and/or he has a "Battery" warning light due to lack of Alternator Function.

3) You describe IDENTICAL symptoms after removing & replacing the OLD belt. For the engine to start and run properly for several seconds, and then shut down, suggests an electrical wiring/ connector fault, possibly intermittent. You do NOT have any possible physical restriction of Crankshaft Rotation after belt replacement, and YET, you have SAME condition. PLUS you have (presumably recurring every time engine shuts down) "2A9a" Fault Code.

4) Here are Bentley Definition of that Fault Code, BMW Fault Code Lookup Definition, and Fault Information sheet Link. NOTE the latter states in "Service Notes: "1. Check signal wire for short to positive, ground, open wire."
P0341 | 2A9A | Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Performance (Bank 1)
P0341 | 2A9A | DME: Crankshaft - inlet camshaft, synchronization | MSV70
http://www.bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagVie...QANAA4ADAANAA=

5) The Camshaft Position Sensor wiring loom and connector are positioned directly above the Crankshaft Pulley AND the A/C Compressor Pulley on the N52 Engine, on the FRONT of the crankcase/ "Timing Cover", and the fact that there were NO issues with engine operation BEFORE the Belt dislodged, AND it has continued to shut down after Startup ever since, HAS to be more than a coincidence. Keep in mind that the DME CANNOT time Ignition Spark and Injector Pulse on Crankshaft Sensor signal alone, as it has NO way of knowing Cam/Valve Position, or "which stroke" the pistons are on (e.g. Exhaust vs. Compression).

I would do the following Visual & Electrical Tests:
1) Carefully inspect the wiring loom for the Intake Camshaft Sensor, and all connectors or connector mounts, for ANY sign of contact/ damage by the belt or tensioner.
2) Electrically TEST each of the THREE wires at Connector X6214:
a) Orange wire at Pin #3 should be 12V+ (Terminal 87 system voltage w/Ignition ON);
b) Yellow wire, Pin #1, should be 5V with Ignition ON;
c) Black/Blue wire, Pin #2, should be a "wave signal" or pulse from sensor to DME.
3) Check Continuity (and also for short to ground or to 12V+) of each of two wires that go to DME Connector X60007, by opening the E-Box and removing the Connector from the DME.

Here are TIS Links for Installation Location for Cam Sensor, Connector View for Sensor 3-pin Connector, and Installation Location & Connector View for X60007 in the E-box:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...sensor/SLoqvgY
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/Cjp8ftvv
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...007/1VnZAHHjcD
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...60007/CSvD6ySM

While doing visual inspection, also check the two coolant hoses next to the belt for any indication of contact/damage.

Please let us know what you find,
George

Thanks so much for this very useful information. I will certainly go through the suggestions you provided and let you know what I find or if this solves the issue.

[tolbert]

Originally Posted by Budget Efthreeoh

You seem to have covered a lot, but have you checking vacuum lines? Had similar symptoms when I did my 3SI swap, left the line unplugged under the intake manifold and it would start but die right away. Hope you find your fix.

Well, as I mentioned everything was working fine prior to the belt tensioner breaking. I had to remove the intake manifold twice since it happened, once to retime the engine, and a second time to replace the starter that died during the troubleshooting, each time I made sure to reconnect everything correctly. I did check for obvious broken hoses and didn't notice anything, although I didn't do extensive testing like looking for small hairline cracks, just looked for obvious damage.

[tolbert]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

I would do the following Visual & Electrical Tests:
1) Carefully inspect the wiring loom for the Intake Camshaft Sensor, and all connectors or connector mounts, for ANY sign of contact/ damage by the belt or tensioner.
2) Electrically TEST each of the THREE wires at Connector X6214:
a) Orange wire at Pin #3 should be 12V+ (Terminal 87 system voltage w/Ignition ON);
b) Yellow wire, Pin #1, should be 5V with Ignition ON;
c) Black/Blue wire, Pin #2, should be a "wave signal" or pulse from sensor to DME.
3) Check Continuity (and also for short to ground or to 12V+) of each of two wires that go to DME Connector X60007, by opening the E-Box and removing the Connector from the DME.

Here are TIS Links for Installation Location for Cam Sensor, Connector View for Sensor 3-pin Connector, and Installation Location & Connector View for X60007 in the E-box:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...sensor/SLoqvgY
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/Cjp8ftvv
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...007/1VnZAHHjcD
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...60007/CSvD6ySM

While doing visual inspection, also check the two coolant hoses next to the belt for any indication of contact/damage.

Please let us know what you find,
George

George,

We were able to do some of the tests you mentioned. They are as follows:

1. "Carefully inspect the wiring loom for the Intake Camshaft Sensor, and all connectors or connector mounts, for ANY sign of contact/ damage by the belt or tensioner."

This was one of the first things we checked early on. We checked again, and we did not see any obvious signs of damage from the belt.

2. "Electrically TEST each of the THREE wires at Connector X6214:
a) Orange wire at Pin #3 should be 12V+ (Terminal 87 system voltage w/Ignition ON);
b) Yellow wire, Pin #1, should be 5V with Ignition ON;
c) Black/Blue wire, Pin #2, should be a "wave signal" or pulse from sensor to DME."

This was also something we had previously done. We checked again, and we were able to confirm that orange wire #3 showed 12V (technically 11.6, my battery is low). Yellow wire #1 confirmed to have 5V. The Black/Blue wire, we were unable to test as I do not have a wave signal tester.

3. "Check Continuity (and also for short to ground or to 12V+) of each of two wires that go to DME Connector X60007, by opening the E-Box and removing the Connector from the DME."

We were able to check continuity by removing the DME connector X60007. All 3 wires from connector X6214 to DME connector X6007 were confirmed to have continuity.

We believe we tested correctly for a possible short to ground on both the ground and the 12V wire. We tested for a ground by following this guideline:
https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...r-Positive-etc
According to our test, we did not find a short in either wire.

We also looked all over the engine bay, especially where the belt may have made contact, and again did not see any obvious damage to any hoses or other parts of the engine bay.

I consulted an independent shop via email and explained the issue as well as everything we have tested. They asked me if I had removed the crankshaft pulley to examine the crankshaft seal for possible damage from the belt. This is something I wanted to check, but I never did. Do you have any input on this? The belt did wrap around and wedge itself behind the pulley, so I suppose it is possible it damaged the seal. Could this prevent the engine from starting?

Thank you again for helping me, it really means a lot.

[tolbert]

UPDATE: I took the car to a local independent shop. They had it for about 3 weeks. A few days ago they called and said the camshafts are in fact out of time and that I need a new engine...

I asked if they could just re-time the camshafts, and he basically said no. I'm not a mechanic as I have stated before, however I cannot understand how if the camshafts are out of time, why can they not be re-timed?

Anyways, I may end up swapping the motor, not sure if I am ready to go down that path or just get a new car al together...

Thanks for everyone's help.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by tolbert

Car: 2006 E90 325i, 155k miles
Issue: Crank, start, run for 3 seconds, dies. Will not run longer than approximately 3 seconds...

Originally Posted by tolbert

UPDATE: I took the car to a local independent shop. They had it for about 3 weeks. A few days ago they called and said the camshafts are in fact out of time and that I need a new engine... I asked if they could just re-time the camshafts, and he basically said no. I'm not a mechanic as I have stated before, however I cannot understand how if the camshafts are out of time, why can they not be re-timed?

You may NOT be a mechanic (professional at least). Neither am I, but I have rebuilt DOHC (Double Overhead Cam) Engines, and if one or both of the cams were "Mis-timed", they could be set to proper position. The N52 engine is an "Interference" engine, meaning that if one of the cams were grossly "Mis-timed" the valves of that cam could contact the pistons and damage valves & pistons. HOWEVER, that is NOT your case if the engine continues to start & run for ~ 3 seconds EVERY time you try it (until the battery is drained and can't crank the starter).

Does it run smoothly for 3 seconds & then die?
Every time (or nearly so) when you start it?
Is 2A9A the ONLY DME Fault Code you have read since the Serpentine Belt issue?

I am CERTAIN that I read SOMEWHERE (in a reliable source) in the past year that if the DME is receiving Crankshaft Sensor signal, but NOT a Camshaft Position Sensor Signal, the engine will start but SHUT DOWN in 3 seconds due to lack of proper CAM Position Sensor signal.

Keep in mind that on a 4-stroke engine, the crankshaft turns TWICE (Two Revolutions) for EACH CAMSHAFT Revolution. On one crankshaft revolution, when Cylinder #1 Piston moves UPWARD, it is pushing exhaust out of open Exhaust Valve, with Intake Valve closed. Next rotation when Piston comes up, air/fuel mix has been "sucked in" through open Intake Valve, and BOTH valves are NOW CLOSED and the air/fuel mix is compressed to be ignited near the top of the piston travel.

So WITHOUT a proper cam position signal the engine will shut down after a few seconds. That is WHAT the DME is programmed to do. If it does it EVERY TIME, then the DME is operating properly, but it is NOT getting a Proper Signal from one of the Cam Position Sensors, apparently the Intake Cam Sensor.

You talked about using ISTA earlier. If you get the car back, or can even take your ISTA Laptop & K+DCAN cable to wherever the car is (to avoid towing charge), I can explain how to monitor the Intake Cam Sensor signal (or lack of it) as received by the DME, using either INPA or ISTA (your preference). You will need to have the battery fully charged, 'cuz you will drain it repeatedly restarting, as it will take 5 or 10 three-second readings to be sure what you are seeing.

UNLESS the shop that had your car did a compression test, and several cylinders had ~ 0 compression, I do NOT see a serious Mechanical problem with your engine. My SWAG is, as stated before, you have a wiring issue with the Intake Cam Position Sensor wiring between the DME & Sensor Connector. My BS Meter "Pegs" when you say the shop had your car for ~ 3 weeks, and then they call and say you need a new engine. I would request that they identify, in writing, each test they conducted and the RESULT of each such test (also in writing). For instance if they conducted a compression test, the pressure reading on EACH of 6 cylinders, and whether "Wet" or "Dry" test. Also ask them if they monitored ANY Parameters (Live Data) or "Diagnosis Scan" as ISTA calls it, particularly Intake Camshaft Position Sensor Signal/Angle reported to the DME.

Let me know if you want to try your hand at diagnosing the Live Data or Sensor Signal using ISTA OR INPA, and I will attach sample screens and explain how to quickly access them, as well as WHAT to look for. Once again, here is the TIS "Valve Gear" circuit and "B6214a" is the Intake Camshaft Sensor. The Orange wire at Pin #3 of Connector X6214 should be 12V+ when Ignition is ON, the Black/Blue wire at Pin #2 is ground for sensor, and the Yellow wire at Pin #1 is the Signal wire to the DME.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ording/hxCHGvd

George

[mecheng77]

I would do a leak down and compression test before you junk the motor. If they are okay the motor is fine and you need someone with the expertise to replace the timing chain and re time the engine

You put a lot of new parts on the motor so it would be a shame to junk it. Good luck

[E92William]

I think the shop is taking you for a ride. This is typical of half ass mechanics that don't want to do the work. You say you replaced a bunch of stuff and didn't fix it, they see a timing code and say well screw the customer and throw a bill at you for a new engine. If the leak down test comes out good there's absolutely no reason for it to need a whole new engine when it can be timed (are you gonna trust their leakdown test? ) . But again shops are lazy and the easiest way out of things is a whole engine for them so they don't have to diagnose or deal with it and they get to charge a lot of labor for the swap. In 3 weeks I'm sure they did absolutely nothing to the car then looked at it one day and said hell with it quote him for an engine..

[tolbert]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

...Let me know if you want to try your hand at diagnosing the Live Data or Sensor Signal using ISTA OR INPA, and I will attach sample screens and explain how to quickly access them, as well as WHAT to look for. Once again, here is the TIS "Valve Gear" circuit and "B6214a" is the Intake Camshaft Sensor. The Orange wire at Pin #3 of Connector X6214 should be 12V+ when Ignition is ON, the Black/Blue wire at Pin #2 is ground for sensor, and the Yellow wire at Pin #1 is the Signal wire to the DME.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ording/hxCHGvd

George

Thanks George, you've been very helpful, I'm going to pick the car up sometime next week and will probably take another crack at it at some point. I also requested a report with tests conducted as you suggested and I have mentioned/linked the relevant information down below.

Like everyone else here, I too think they are simply being lazy. The most damning evidence of this is in the report they gave me, which states:

"Fuel pressure is good. Faults indicate an issue with cam to crank correlation. As per test plan, swapped and cleaned sensors, screens and solenoids (I did this months ago by the way). At this point will have to either further diagnose timing by pulling valve cover and setting tool on it. Or recommend to replace the motor. Given the condition of the vehicle as it has been tampered with, further issues may exist. Using oscilloscope determined that the cam to crank correlation is faulty. Recommend to replace motor."

You can view this and some diagnostics they ran here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hoJKsU797yKQtLcU6

Based on this, I have to assume that they did not remove the valve cover and attempt to re-time the engine as they make no mention of doing that anywhere in the report they gave me.

I am very disappointed. I knew I risked paying them for bad news, but I at least thought that they would TRY to fix the issue. Instead it seems as though they hooked my car up to ISTA/Oscilloscope, confirmed timing is off, and are telling me to get a new motor without even ATTEMPTING to re-time the engine. Literally the easiest thing to do is hook the car up and run some tests. I did that for weeks, its not hard.

Not sure what I am going to say to them when I pick up my car but overall this place has been a joke.

[E92William]

What I'm wondering is, didn't you time the engine yourself? Do you think your tool was screwed or you didn't do it right?

[tolbert]

Originally Posted by E92William

What I'm wondering is, didn't you time the engine yourself? Do you think your tool was screwed or you didn't do it right?

Yes, I did re-time it myself. I felt very confident I got the locking key in the correct hole in the flywheel, and felt like I re-timed it correctly. However, I found very little visual examples on youtube and google, most of them were n54 or n55 engines, and even the ones that were n52 the uploader didn't even show the process, just the before and after so it was very frustrating not having a good visual example. I did follow the instructions on ISTA+ but it is possible I did something wrong.

I will say that after I re-timed the engine, nothing changed. The engine still cranked and would sometimes start for a few seconds then die. There were no new error codes either, so I am starting to think I did not re-time it correctly, which is one major reason I took it to a shop after that, as I figured if it did need to be re-timed, they would do that and bill me for it, which in this case didn't even happen.

[E92William]

I guess you can contact them and ask them to time the engine and if they think this could solve the issue aswell as they could perform a compression test to check the engines health and if any valves are damaged. However you might want to take it home and do all that yourself as I wouldn't want a person that's trying to sell me a whole engine to try and fix the one they're trying to get me to get rid of.. if you got compression on all cylinders I think the engine is good.

It's indeed frustrating every clown on YouTube claiming to be a diy bmw mechanic just sits next to the car and doesn't actually show you how to do anything for 10 minutes.

[nhhiep]

i had the same problem on my 06 with 135k miles w/o any codes. replaced the original CPS, VCG, and ESS fixed it.VCG leaked oil very bad and ESS had oil at the connector.

[JonOhh]

Really curious how the ref sync works on these DMEs. Not sure if it looks at intake cam, exhaust cam, or both to get cycle lock on startup.

As a side note, fun fact, the MSV81 is capable of remembering where the engine stopped in certain scenarios, and can start up almost immediately without a ref sync cycle...but that's irrelevant for this discussion I guess.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Jonaa24

I have the same issue with my 328i 116K miles 2010, have changed so far: ESS, MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR, MAP SENSOR, VCG, CRANKSHAFT SENSOR, DME, AND RELAYS, And still the same problem, starts and after few seconds dies. No fault codes

What Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software do you have available?
If you had INPA, you could MONITOR such things as Engine RPM (via Crankshaft Sensor), Cam Position Sensor Signals, Terminal 87 (DME Main Relay) Voltage, & Fuel Pump Speed during engine Cranking & Startup, and see WHAT signals change after several seconds causing shutdown.

OP had a Fault code, 2A9A/P0016 which indicated an issue with the Intake Camshaft Timing Signal, as correlated with the Crankshaft Sensor Signal. Since you have NO Fault Codes (?), your "shutdown" could be any loose connection, wiring issue, or component Fault which interrupts fuel supply, or DME Function to time Spark & Injector Pulse. That of course includes lack of proper signals received by DME from Crank Sensor & Cam Sensors, which are needed to time Spark/ Injector Pulse.

OP, you could do the same thing. I believe you said you have ISTA. Since INPA/BMW Standard Tools must be installed FIRST before ISTA+, then you can do this as well. INPA provides BETTER Live Data than ISTA+ in my opinion, at least I am MORE Familiar with INPA than ISTA.

I would be happy to suggest WHAT Screens to view and how to access them to anyone who has INPA running. If engine starts normally, within ~ 1.5 seconds of pressing START button, and runs smoothly for at least 2 or 3 seconds, and then stops as if you had turned off ignition (as opposed to running rough & sputtering for a few seconds), then it is likely that SOME DME function is shutting down after Startup.

Those functions that immediately come to mind are DME Main Relay (K6300) or Terminal 87 shutdown; Crankshaft Sensor Signal fault; Camshaft Position Sensor Signal fault; Fuel Pump Control, both by DME & EKPS (Fuel Pump Module). Of course Power Supply to any of those, or even intermittent Ground to complete the Power Supply Circuit, could cause the issue.

ANYONE know from actual USE of INPA: WHAT screen(s), whether Digital or Analog, show Crankshaft Sensor signal as received by DME?? There are a number of screens that show RPM (As does the Tach) or if engine is at rest (digital), but perhaps NOT ALL of those are based upon Crank Sensor Signal?

George

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Jonaa24

Thanks I'll try to use INPA, and check actual values

Attached are INPA Screens I would recommend to view during Start, Run, Stall (One at a time of course ;-):

1) DME > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 Measured Values Gp.1:
Terminal 87 (DME MAIN RELAY) Voltage: should remain 12V+, even AFTER stall
Engine RPM: ~ 150 during cranking, 800-1200 during run, and NOT drop BEFORE stall

2) DME > F6 > F1 > F4 VANOS: Use ONLY to observe; do NOT activate/Over-ride DME Control
Shows Status of each VANOS Solenoid on top Bar Graphs, Intake & Exhaust
Shows ACTUAL Cam Advance & Requested advance for Intake & Exhaust

3) EKPS > F6 Fuel Pump (EKP) Data: Look for ANY change in Speed, Volts, Amps
Occurring BEFORE Engine stall

ALL screens are connected to my 2007 328xi N52, at idle, NO Fault Codes/Issues.

George

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Jonaa24

I just checked the values and everything is OK, but now I just saw that if I read the codes with the car running I always have these two codes:
002D0F DME AIR MASS SENSOR SIGNAL
002D16 DME AIR MASS SENSOR SIGNAL
Like I never had a code, as soon as the car dies the code is not there, so is only when the car is running

Is the image you attached a photo of an ISTA screen? That's NOT INPA!?!?
Different Scan Tools or Software may show you different data. If you are reading a Fault Code saved in "Fault Memory" or "FehlerSpeicher", you are NOT reading live data, you are reading FAULT MEMORY. That code remains in Fault Memory until it is CLEARED, even if the Condition that caused the fault code to be saved was INTERMITTENT, such as a "misfire" condition. INPA or ISTA would tell you that the "Intermittent" fault is "NOT Currently Present" (Fehler Momentan NICHT Vorhanden).

Did the SES light come on or STAY ON after Engine Start (BEFORE Stall)?
Does the engine continue to Start normally but then Stall after ~ 3 seconds?
Can you restart it immediately after it dies, or do you have to wait "x" seconds?
Did you try watching the MAF Sensor signal with INPA during Starter Cranking and Running until Stall?
You can use the FIRST INPA Screen I attached to read MAF Signal LIVE DATA (Luftmasse, 4 bars below "Terminal 87").
Did you use the INPA Screens I suggested , or use ISTA?

Even though you can read some of the Data in ISTA instead of INPA, the MORE Parameters you are trying to read, the SLOWER the "Refresh" rate or time it takes for the data change to SHOW on your screen. If you select All, or nearly All of the Parameters a particular ISTA screen can show, the change in Data (such as drop in Terminal 87 Voltage from 12+V to ~ 0 may NOT show on the screen until ~ 2 seconds AFTER the change occurred.

The FIRST INPA Screen I attached, TOP Line, Left Column, shows Terminal 87 Voltage. Terminal 87 is what is powered by the DME Main Relay, a/k/a K6300, the relay in the top-right of the JB Fuse Panel which powers such NECESSARY things as Crankshaft Sensor, & Camshaft Sensors, as well as the DME itself. The MAF is ALSO powered via Terminal 87, although the car should start & continue to run with the MAF Sensor completely DIS-connected.

So IF you are getting some reliable indication that the MAF Signal is being LOST after engine start, but that indication goes away, and there is NO Fault Code saved in DME Fault Memory, AND the engine will fire and run again for ~ 3 seconds if you try to restart in ~ 5 seconds after Stall, here's my SWAG:

The DME Main Relay powers BOTH Fuse F11 and fuse F37 on your 2010 328i N52. F11 in turn powers the MAF Sensor and Crankshaft Sensor. F37 powers BOTH Camshaft Sensors AND most of the power to the DME Module. If the DME Main Relay (K6300) goes "open contacts" after a few seconds of current flow, then ALL those components lose their power supply, fail to provide signals to the DME, and DME shuts down. Relay cools and the cycle repeats. Of course a fault (1) IN the DME, which provides the Ground signal to the relay, or (2) in the wiring between the DME and the Relay, could produce the same result.

I believe K6300 is soldered into the JB on your model, as opposed to being a "plug-in" relay, and if that is the case, there's MORE to it than just unplugging the old relay and plugging in a new $20 relay.
ANYONE replaced the K6300 DME Main Relay on a Late 2007 or later Model?? BEFORE 3/1/2007, that Relay was a plug-in type in the E-box according to the wiring diagrams.

So you want to use INPA to see if "Terminal 87" voltage is going to 0, causing the Stall, and then returning to ~ 12V+ after a few seconds if you don't touch anything (don't press STOP button or turn off Ignition).

That's the FIRST INPA Screen I attached in previous post. Watch that top bar graph and voltage value to right of bar LIKE A HAWK, and see HOW it changes. It SHOULD change from 0 to ~ 12V when you turn of Ignition. It SHOULD drop to ~ 10.5V during Starter Cranking, and then jump to ~ 14V when Alternator begins to charge battery. If engine did NOT stall, it should remain ~ 14V while engine is running. If the engine stalls due to some condition OTHER than a faulty K6300 Relay, that voltage value should NOT drop below 12V, even after engine dies (if ignition is still ON -- you don't press STOP button). It should drop to 0 when STOP is pressed & ignition is turned off, or within a few seconds of doing that.

I would try that once or twice using INPA > DME > F5 > F2 > F1.

Since you have ISTA installed, I presume you know HOW to use "Text Search" to view wiring diagrams for "Air Supply" (MAF Sensor), & "Valve Gear" (Camshaft Sensors). To view Fuse Circuits: Vehicle Management > Troubleshooting > Component Structure > Components > Fuses > F11 then F37. Wiring Diagrams are "SSP" Document Types. Please share what you find or any questions, so we can ALL learn something, and "Play Along" at home.

George