my 2008 e90 audio install progress

parboy · 10-11-2008, 04:56 PM

Got started on it last week. We got the amps hooked up and my friend John put a partial tune on them to get me by untill he can spend more time in the car. The amps are Zapco DC reference 650.6 and 500.1. Using an audio control LC8 to convert the signal. We are using the stock head unit and stock speakers. Will probably upgrade the front stage speakers with Hybrid Audio components. A JL audio 13w5 will reside in the left rear area of the trunk, similar to the 5 series stealth box. It's proving interesting to build with all the angles over there. Will probably also build a flush panel to hide the amps wiring. Heading back Monday to try to finish everything up. Will post final pics once it gets completed. Enjoy.

Album with all pics: http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/h...dio%20install/

A few teasers:

Technic · 10-11-2008, 07:08 PM

Excellent choice of amps, however unless you are de-EQ the Logic7 outputs with the Zapco's you would need a Cleansweep instead of that LC8i...

parboy · 10-11-2008, 07:51 PM

I had thought of the cleansweep, but with just 15 minutes worth of tuning, we have it sounding decent. We have turned the logic 7 processing off, and set the eq and bass/treble to flat and using the amps to tune the sound. These amps have a ton of tuning ability! I am lucky that the guy doing my tuning is a SQ champion and judge for finals. The amps are actually the ones out of his finals car. He believes that with more time in the car, he can get it sounding like it should. If not, I can always add the cleansweep in place of the lc8. The stock speakers in the car are actually pretty decent. He seems to think that a tweeter swap to something like the Hybrid Audio L1's might be all that is needed. I will probably get a set of the Hybrid Legatia's L4's up front at some point. When we get the JL sub installed in the trunk, we will run the 8's under the seat as midbass only for a 3 way front stage + the center.

Technic · 10-11-2008, 10:27 PM

Even after setting everything to flat/off (EQ, Logic7, bass and treble) there is a DSP/EQ processing going on in the OEM amp that will require a RTA to manually set the Zapco's DSP to neutralize it correctly.

Personally, I would rather go the Cleansweep route and the do my own separate EQ tuning from a fairly flat/"de-EQ" signal than just doing it manually. This is a perfect example of this issue of the Logic7 and just using an LC8 to sum only: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=28

Quote:

Originally Posted by parboy

I had thought of the cleansweep, but with just 15 minutes worth of tuning, we have it sounding decent. We have turned the logic 7 processing off, and set the eq and bass/treble to flat and using the amps to tune the sound. These amps have a ton of tuning ability! I am lucky that the guy doing my tuning is a SQ champion and judge for finals. The amps are actually the ones out of his finals car. He believes that with more time in the car, he can get it sounding like it should. If not, I can always add the cleansweep in place of the lc8. The stock speakers in the car are actually pretty decent. He seems to think that a tweeter swap to something like the Hybrid Audio L1's might be all that is needed. I will probably get a set of the Hybrid Legatia's L4's up front at some point. When we get the JL sub installed in the trunk, we will run the 8's under the seat as midbass only for a 3 way front stage + the center.

dreamk · 10-11-2008, 10:55 PM

HOT!

azwillnj · 10-13-2008, 12:29 AM

Where is your storage space so small.. the part under the floor. Mine is huge.

Technic · 10-13-2008, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azwillnj

Where is your storage space so small.. the part under the floor. Mine is huge.

It is a 335i.

TMR · 10-13-2008, 04:40 PM

How does the NAV voice and bluetooth phone sound. Great amps BTW, i have a 1000.4 and a 1100.1 and will be installing these soon.

parboy · 10-14-2008, 10:51 AM

I don't have Nav, so I can't comment on that. The voice activation stuff, bluetooth, door gong, etc were all out of control. I had to turn the gain waaaaay down on the amps to get it under control. This in turn has introduced other problems I fear. Because I have the amp gains down I have to turn the volume on the HU up quite a bit and I think some factory processing it causing some distortion at high volume levels.

Technic, I am going to try to list out how I have everything connected and would appreciate your thoughts. It looks like the cleansweep and summing module are in my future though.

The lc8 has 4 sets of inputs. From the factory amp we have the front door left/right on input 1. The underseat 8's on input 2, which are also jumped over to input 4 so I have volume control on that output for the trunk mounted sub. The center is on input 3, but it's not being used right now. I just put it there as a "just in case". Input 2 is summed to input 1 to make a full range signal for the primary output to my 650.6. Input 4 is on seperate and is feeding my 500.1.

I have the 650.6 set to use 1 input to feed all channels. The center is wired to channel 1+2 on the amp, the doors are on 3 and 4 and the underseat 8's are on 5 and 6. No problems there, everything is playing as it should. Just to start tuning, we have the center playing from 500hz up, the doors playing from 200hz up, and the 8's going from 50-200hz. When we set this up I did not have the sub amp in the mix. The problem now with the sub amp online, which is set to play from 50hz down, seems to be that it's crossover point is affecting the interior speakers. At loud volume, the door speakers sound like they are playing well below the 200hz I have them set at. They don't seem overdriven, just trying to play below the crossover point and going nuts. If I mute the sub output, the problem goes away and the interior speakers sound great. Also with the sub amp added in, I am getting worse alternator noise and hiss. Granted, my friend is the tuning guru and knows these amps inside and out. He hasn't been back in the car since we have the sub amp hooked up and playing, which is when the problems seemed to start. So it could be a setting I am missing, which is what I am hoping!

I hope all that makes sense!

Technic · 10-14-2008, 10:59 AM

This forum member went thru the same audio tuning issues as you are right now... http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68094

The LC8 cannot overcome the Logic7 processing; that's what is messing your system up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by parboy

I don't have Nav, so I can't comment on that. The voice activation stuff, bluetooth, door gong, etc were all out of control. I had to turn the gain waaaaay down on the amps to get it under control. This in turn has introduced other problems I fear. Because I have the amp gains down I have to turn the volume on the HU up quite a bit and I think some factory processing it causing some distortion at high volume levels.

Technic, I am going to try to list out how I have everything connected and would appreciate your thoughts. It looks like the cleansweep and summing module are in my future though.

The lc8 has 4 sets of inputs. From the factory amp we have the front door left/right on input 1. The underseat 8's on input 2, which are also jumped over to input 4 so I have volume control on that output for the trunk mounted sub. The center is on input 3, but it's not being used right now. I just put it there as a "just in case". Input 2 is summed to input 1 to make a full range signal for the primary output to my 650.6. Input 4 is on seperate and is feeding my 500.1.

I have the 650.6 set to use 1 input to feed all channels. The center is wired to channel 1+2 on the amp, the doors are on 3 and 4 and the underseat 8's are on 5 and 6. No problems there, everything is playing as it should. Just to start tuning, we have the center playing from 500hz up, the doors playing from 200hz up, and the 8's going from 50-200hz. When we set this up I did not have the sub amp in the mix. The problem now with the sub amp online, which is set to play from 50hz down, seems to be that it's crossover point is affecting the interior speakers. At loud volume, the door speakers sound like they are playing well below the 200hz I have them set at. They don't seem overdriven, just trying to play below the crossover point and going nuts. If I mute the sub output, the problem goes away and the interior speakers sound great. Also with the sub amp added in, I am getting worse alternator noise and hiss. Granted, my friend is the tuning guru and knows these amps inside and out. He hasn't been back in the car since we have the sub amp hooked up and playing, which is when the problems seemed to start. So it could be a setting I am missing, which is what I am hoping!

I hope all that makes sense!

parboy · 10-14-2008, 11:33 AM

Thanks for the links Technic, those are very informative. Like I said, looks like you are right and the cleansweep and summing module are in my future. I hate that I spent pretty much all day at the shop yesterday changing how we have stuff wired and left with it the same way when I came in. Seemed like nothing made a difference. Very frustrating...... The only positive thing I can say is we got the turn off pop eliminated by using actual switched power instead of the signal sensing. Got a first layer of fiberglass on the box, so that was a positive too I guess. The box should be finished this week hopefully.

Technic · 10-14-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parboy

Thanks for the links Technic, those are very informative. Like I said, looks like you are right and the cleansweep and summing module are in my future. I hate that I spent pretty much all day at the shop yesterday changing how we have stuff wired and left with it the same way when I came in. Seemed like nothing made a difference. Very frustrating...... The only positive thing I can say is we got the turn off pop eliminated by using actual switched power instead of the signal sensing. Got a first layer of fiberglass on the box, so that was a positive too I guess. The box should be finished this week hopefully.

If your shop can come up with a sub box like this...

... you can tell them that they have another customer here.

parboy · 10-14-2008, 12:25 PM

I can't see your pic here at work, but it will be similar to the stealth box for the 5 series on JL's website. We are using mostly 3/4" mdf except for the part that goes over the wheel well which we are using the glass for to gain a little extra volume. Should be close to .8 cu/ft, which is what we need for the 13tw5. I've got a few pics of it's progress and will post those when I get home.

parboy · 10-14-2008, 07:14 PM

Here are the pics of the box progress thus far:

In that last pic, to the right side interior of the box, is actually the trunk liner that we will use to carpet the exterior of the box. We have it stapled and formed to fit over the tire well. Right after that pic was taken, we put on the first layer of fiberglass resin. Will build up 3 more layers of mat for strength. I just wanted to show how well that trunk liner I found matches the factory trunk. We will build panels to form the front of the box to the contours of the trunk so it appears seamless. We have right around .8 cu/ft which should be perfect for the 13tw5.

As an update to my wiring woes, I have put in an email to Zapco to see about the possibility of finding those BTL adapters I have read about so I can ditch the lc8. I will probably still get a cleansweep, but I just wanted to see what zapco has to say about the BTL pieces integrating with the BMW factory logic 7 amp.

Bye Bye GTI · 10-15-2008, 12:02 AM

I remembered seeing a post where the user had a conversation with someone at zapco about the BTL. It stuck in my head as i had no idea what they were referring to! Anyways - hope this may be of help to you....

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=zapco

Halston@bsw · 10-15-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote the amplification going there! Like it a lot!

parboy · 10-21-2008, 04:35 PM

Heading to the shop tomorrow (Wednesday) to pull out the lc8 and install the JL summing module, cleansweep, and remote level control. The box is glassed and ready to fit to the car with trim panels and cover with matching trunk liner.

I have managed to get it sounding fairly good in the interim with some playing around with the amps. I think a lot of the problems I was having are dealing with level matching the HU volume with the lc8 gain and amp gain. Hopefully the JL stuff will make that fairly simple to set on the summing module. Also playing around with crossover points has me able to listen to it as is and enjoy it. I can't wait to have a flat signal to start with and get my tuning guru in the car to set the amps properly!

I'll post back with pics and results of the days events.

MMAJNKE · 10-21-2008, 04:36 PM

nice work

parboy · 10-22-2008, 08:26 PM

Ok, got her done today! We took out the lc8 and installed the jl summing module, cleansweep, and a JL line driver/volume control for my sub amp. This is definetly the way to go and I wish I had done it first instead of messing around with the lc8. After getting it all in and calibrated I did a quick setting of the amp gains and I believe all my problems are solved. No hiss/whine/distortion at any volume level now. All that is left is to get my tuning guru in the car to tune the amps eq settings and I will be good to go! The JL 13tw5 is an awesome sub by the way

The pics of what we did today:

pilipnoi · 10-22-2008, 09:10 PM

woooow

amazing install!! It's definitely one of the cleanest that I've ever seen on a 335. I wish I could hear it.

I'm sorry but I'm probably gonna have to make an attempt to copy your install in the future when I decide to upgrade my system.

Technic · 10-22-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parboy

Ok, got her done today! We took out the lc8 and installed the jl summing module, cleansweep, and a JL line driver/volume control for my sub amp. This is definetly the way to go and I wish I had done it first instead of messing around with the lc8. After getting it all in and calibrated I did a quick setting of the amp gains and I believe all my problems are solved. No hiss/whine/distortion at any volume level now. All that is left is to get my tuning guru in the car to tune the amps eq settings and I will be good to go! The JL 13tw5 is an awesome sub by the way

The pics of what we did today:

Congratulations...

Why the installer is only using the front and the underseat subs as inputs to the summing module? What happened with the rear inputs?

dvpouldar26 · 10-22-2008, 09:52 PM

Very nice install, but why a shallow mount sub like the TW5, and not a conventional sub like the w6? Did you sound deaden the trunk because I once put in my subs in my e92 ( they are much much more powerful than the TW5), and the trunk and rear parcel shelf would rattle and flex alot. You would be able to see my trunk actually bending, and my rear quarter panels flexing. Some SPL and SQ can be gained if you sound deaden the car.

10-11-2008, 04:56 PM	#1
parboy Private 6 Rep 79 Posts Drives: 2009 corvette c6 6 speed Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Little Rock, AR iTrader: (1)	my 2008 e90 audio install progress Got started on it last week. We got the amps hooked up and my friend John put a partial tune on them to get me by untill he can spend more time in the car. The amps are Zapco DC reference 650.6 and 500.1. Using an audio control LC8 to convert the signal. We are using the stock head unit and stock speakers. Will probably upgrade the front stage speakers with Hybrid Audio components. A JL audio 13w5 will reside in the left rear area of the trunk, similar to the 5 series stealth box. It's proving interesting to build with all the angles over there. Will probably also build a flush panel to hide the amps wiring. Heading back Monday to try to finish everything up. Will post final pics once it gets completed. Enjoy. Album with all pics: http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/h...dio%20install/ A few teasers:
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10-11-2008, 07:08 PM	#2
Technic Lieutenant General 2470 Rep 13,132 Posts Drives: 2025 Countryman S, 2024 i4 M50 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Florida iTrader: (18)	Excellent choice of amps, however unless you are de-EQ the Logic7 outputs with the Zapco's you would need a Cleansweep instead of that LC8i...
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10-11-2008, 07:51 PM	#3
parboy Private 6 Rep 79 Posts Drives: 2009 corvette c6 6 speed Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Little Rock, AR iTrader: (1)	I had thought of the cleansweep, but with just 15 minutes worth of tuning, we have it sounding decent. We have turned the logic 7 processing off, and set the eq and bass/treble to flat and using the amps to tune the sound. These amps have a ton of tuning ability! I am lucky that the guy doing my tuning is a SQ champion and judge for finals. The amps are actually the ones out of his finals car. He believes that with more time in the car, he can get it sounding like it should. If not, I can always add the cleansweep in place of the lc8. The stock speakers in the car are actually pretty decent. He seems to think that a tweeter swap to something like the Hybrid Audio L1's might be all that is needed. I will probably get a set of the Hybrid Legatia's L4's up front at some point. When we get the JL sub installed in the trunk, we will run the 8's under the seat as midbass only for a 3 way front stage + the center.
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10-11-2008, 10:55 PM	#5
dreamk Banned 125 Rep 9,946 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: south nj iTrader: (2) Garage List 2007 e90 335i [0.00]	HOT!
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10-13-2008, 12:29 AM	#6
azwillnj First Lieutenant 342 Rep 388 Posts Drives: 2023 M340i xDrive Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Northern VA iTrader: (0)	Where is your storage space so small.. the part under the floor. Mine is huge. __________________ Current: 2023 G20 LCI M340i xDrive History: 2005 E90 325i > 2008 E90 328xi > 2011 E90 LCI 335i xDrive > 2013 F30 328i xDrive > 2016 F30 LCI 340i xDrive > 2020 G20 M340i xDrive WE ARE!
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10-13-2008, 04:40 PM	#8
TMR Brigadier General 398 Rep 3,159 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Torrance iTrader: (12)	How does the NAV voice and bluetooth phone sound. Great amps BTW, i have a 1000.4 and a 1100.1 and will be installing these soon. __________________ 2015 M3 BPM Tuned, Eibach, Magnaflow and more www.tmrmzine.com/m3/f80 SOLD E92 Slēk Carbon Fiber Widebody M3 www.tmrmzine.com/m3/slek/ SOLD E92 335i Stage 3+ with all the toys www.tmrmzine.com/335/ SOLD E39 M5 Modded, What a great car! www.tmrmzine.com/m5/
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10-14-2008, 10:51 AM	#9
parboy Private 6 Rep 79 Posts Drives: 2009 corvette c6 6 speed Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Little Rock, AR iTrader: (1)	I don't have Nav, so I can't comment on that. The voice activation stuff, bluetooth, door gong, etc were all out of control. I had to turn the gain waaaaay down on the amps to get it under control. This in turn has introduced other problems I fear. Because I have the amp gains down I have to turn the volume on the HU up quite a bit and I think some factory processing it causing some distortion at high volume levels. Technic, I am going to try to list out how I have everything connected and would appreciate your thoughts. It looks like the cleansweep and summing module are in my future though. The lc8 has 4 sets of inputs. From the factory amp we have the front door left/right on input 1. The underseat 8's on input 2, which are also jumped over to input 4 so I have volume control on that output for the trunk mounted sub. The center is on input 3, but it's not being used right now. I just put it there as a "just in case". Input 2 is summed to input 1 to make a full range signal for the primary output to my 650.6. Input 4 is on seperate and is feeding my 500.1. I have the 650.6 set to use 1 input to feed all channels. The center is wired to channel 1+2 on the amp, the doors are on 3 and 4 and the underseat 8's are on 5 and 6. No problems there, everything is playing as it should. Just to start tuning, we have the center playing from 500hz up, the doors playing from 200hz up, and the 8's going from 50-200hz. When we set this up I did not have the sub amp in the mix. The problem now with the sub amp online, which is set to play from 50hz down, seems to be that it's crossover point is affecting the interior speakers. At loud volume, the door speakers sound like they are playing well below the 200hz I have them set at. They don't seem overdriven, just trying to play below the crossover point and going nuts. If I mute the sub output, the problem goes away and the interior speakers sound great. Also with the sub amp added in, I am getting worse alternator noise and hiss. Granted, my friend is the tuning guru and knows these amps inside and out. He hasn't been back in the car since we have the sub amp hooked up and playing, which is when the problems seemed to start. So it could be a setting I am missing, which is what I am hoping! I hope all that makes sense!
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10-14-2008, 11:33 AM	#11
parboy Private 6 Rep 79 Posts Drives: 2009 corvette c6 6 speed Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Little Rock, AR iTrader: (1)	Thanks for the links Technic, those are very informative. Like I said, looks like you are right and the cleansweep and summing module are in my future. I hate that I spent pretty much all day at the shop yesterday changing how we have stuff wired and left with it the same way when I came in. Seemed like nothing made a difference. Very frustrating...... The only positive thing I can say is we got the turn off pop eliminated by using actual switched power instead of the signal sensing. Got a first layer of fiberglass on the box, so that was a positive too I guess. The box should be finished this week hopefully.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-14-2008, 12:25 PM	#13
parboy Private 6 Rep 79 Posts Drives: 2009 corvette c6 6 speed Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Little Rock, AR iTrader: (1)	I can't see your pic here at work, but it will be similar to the stealth box for the 5 series on JL's website. We are using mostly 3/4" mdf except for the part that goes over the wheel well which we are using the glass for to gain a little extra volume. Should be close to .8 cu/ft, which is what we need for the 13tw5. I've got a few pics of it's progress and will post those when I get home.
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10-14-2008, 07:14 PM	#14
parboy Private 6 Rep 79 Posts Drives: 2009 corvette c6 6 speed Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Little Rock, AR iTrader: (1)	Here are the pics of the box progress thus far: In that last pic, to the right side interior of the box, is actually the trunk liner that we will use to carpet the exterior of the box. We have it stapled and formed to fit over the tire well. Right after that pic was taken, we put on the first layer of fiberglass resin. Will build up 3 more layers of mat for strength. I just wanted to show how well that trunk liner I found matches the factory trunk. We will build panels to form the front of the box to the contours of the trunk so it appears seamless. We have right around .8 cu/ft which should be perfect for the 13tw5. As an update to my wiring woes, I have put in an email to Zapco to see about the possibility of finding those BTL adapters I have read about so I can ditch the lc8. I will probably still get a cleansweep, but I just wanted to see what zapco has to say about the BTL pieces integrating with the BMW factory logic 7 amp.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-15-2008, 12:02 AM	#15
Bye Bye GTI Private First Class 8 Rep 127 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: May 2008 Location: Alberta iTrader: (0)	I remembered seeing a post where the user had a conversation with someone at zapco about the BTL. It stuck in my head as i had no idea what they were referring to! Anyways - hope this may be of help to you.... http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=zapco Last edited by Bye Bye GTI; 10-15-2008 at 12:26 AM..
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10-15-2008, 11:11 AM	#16
Halston@bsw Guest 16 Rep 180 Posts Drives: 99 M3 - 89 325i - 86 535i Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	Quote the amplification going there! Like it a lot!
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10-21-2008, 04:35 PM	#17
parboy Private 6 Rep 79 Posts Drives: 2009 corvette c6 6 speed Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Little Rock, AR iTrader: (1)	Heading to the shop tomorrow (Wednesday) to pull out the lc8 and install the JL summing module, cleansweep, and remote level control. The box is glassed and ready to fit to the car with trim panels and cover with matching trunk liner. I have managed to get it sounding fairly good in the interim with some playing around with the amps. I think a lot of the problems I was having are dealing with level matching the HU volume with the lc8 gain and amp gain. Hopefully the JL stuff will make that fairly simple to set on the summing module. Also playing around with crossover points has me able to listen to it as is and enjoy it. I can't wait to have a flat signal to start with and get my tuning guru in the car to set the amps properly! I'll post back with pics and results of the days events.
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10-21-2008, 04:36 PM	#18
MMAJNKE MMA Changed My Life! 336 Rep 6,627 Posts Drives: e92 m3 & f30 328i Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: so cal iTrader: (48) Garage List "2006 sport bi ... [0.00] 2008 e92 coupe [0.00]	nice work
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10-22-2008, 08:26 PM	#19
parboy Private 6 Rep 79 Posts Drives: 2009 corvette c6 6 speed Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Little Rock, AR iTrader: (1)	Ok, got her done today! We took out the lc8 and installed the jl summing module, cleansweep, and a JL line driver/volume control for my sub amp. This is definetly the way to go and I wish I had done it first instead of messing around with the lc8. After getting it all in and calibrated I did a quick setting of the amp gains and I believe all my problems are solved. No hiss/whine/distortion at any volume level now. All that is left is to get my tuning guru in the car to tune the amps eq settings and I will be good to go! The JL 13tw5 is an awesome sub by the way The pics of what we did today:
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10-22-2008, 09:10 PM	#20
pilipnoi Lieutenant 30 Rep 478 Posts Drives: '09 335i Sedan Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Edison, NJ iTrader: (7)	woooow amazing install!! It's definitely one of the cleanest that I've ever seen on a 335. I wish I could hear it. I'm sorry but I'm probably gonna have to make an attempt to copy your install in the future when I decide to upgrade my system.
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10-22-2008, 09:52 PM	#22
dvpouldar26 Major 65 Rep 1,498 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 328i, Porsche 987.1 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Beverly Hills, CA iTrader: (4)	Very nice install, but why a shallow mount sub like the TW5, and not a conventional sub like the w6? Did you sound deaden the trunk because I once put in my subs in my e92 ( they are much much more powerful than the TW5), and the trunk and rear parcel shelf would rattle and flex alot. You would be able to see my trunk actually bending, and my rear quarter panels flexing. Some SPL and SQ can be gained if you sound deaden the car.
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