[sbuchana12]

https://datazap.me/u/sbuchana12/revi...25-26-27-28-29

As you can see when I hit the throttle I get a bunch of timing drops at boost onset. This does this on every revision I have had. Any thoughts?

[TunafishE93]

You don't have the octane to be running 19 psi.

[sbuchana12]

Hmmm. Nothing to do with my rail dropping at that point? As I thought that might be what is causing it. This is with boostane and meth.

[Turbod]

Methanol injection isn't instant and will start spraying a little bit after you get into boost. To me this looks like the delay before methanol starts spraying. I am surprised to see you say you are also using boostane. Are you using a small amount? I had very good results with 1 gallon of ethanol per tank when I was running primarily pump and methanol. Seeing that dip in your rail pressure though makes me less confident that your fuel system would handle adding a little bit of ethanol.

I also cannot recall, what turbo are you running?

[sbuchana12]

After that dip my rail holds strong right? It never goes below 2000psi but looks like it might take a bit to spool up?

I am using 8oz of boostane per tank. In theory that should produce well more than enough octane for a 91 and meth tune?

I have pure stage 1

[TunafishE93]

Boostane is garbage. I have done testing on it and datalog the results. With what would equals 100 octane i still couldnt run a clean run without timing corrections on MHD stage one 93 octane (only have 91 octane gas). It helped slightly but the next day that little was gone. I now have four cans of this garbage that i dont use.

So short story dont use Boostane for any octane calculation, its doesnt work as advertised and is not reliable. To answer your question it doesnt have anything to do with fuel pressure. Your pressure actually is running higher than needs be. If it was due to pressure you would see a lean condition at the same time and that lean condition would be causing preingition.

Shooting the meth a little soon and maybe more meth can help the timing but only to a point.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by sbuchana12

After that dip my rail holds strong right? It never goes below 2000psi but looks like it might take a bit to spool up?

I am using 8oz of boostane per tank. In theory that should produce well more than enough octane for a 91 and meth tune?

I have pure stage 1

Its starting to go down but it still high enough not to matter. I've had pretty good results adding a little bit of boostane. You just shouldn't rely on it for say a 100 octane tune. This looked like a PS1 based on boost and WGDC.

If you cannot increase your base octane (what is in your fuel tank) enough to avoid corrections on spool then you'll either need to shoot for a lower target or just accept them. If you were to try and ramp boost in a little slower then the car would feel pretty laggy.

[sbuchana12]

Ok thanks guys. I guess I will just have to live with them.

Tuna I am surprised you have not had success with boostane. I have heard good things from a lot of different boards about it.

[TunafishE93]

Yeah but have you seen datalogs with it? I actually logged it and results and claims don't produce. For example I should be getting no timing corrections running 100 octane on MHD stage one plus 93 map (see below). The reviews and test that I have seen has been on the dyno but they are using a butt load of the stuff and they are not letting it settle.

I think the last part is the problem with using it long term. It sinks after a day or two and separates from the gas, so it will get sucked up and your left with just 91 in the tank. You can do the experiment at home, jar of gas and add some Boostane, shake and wait to see if you have separation.

This is why I bought the Boostane because of the reviews and hope for a long term solution to crappy 91 gas. After testing Boostane is not a long term solution and the advertised octane boost is false.

This is base no Boostane stage one 91 map https://datazap.me/u/tunafish389/log...og=0&data=4-21

This boosted to "94 octane" with Boostane stage one 91 map same run as above but 14f higher https://datazap.me/u/tunafish389/log...og=0&data=4-21 you can see timing actually is worst than base line.

This is boosted to "100 octane" with stage one 93 map same run as above https://datazap.me/u/tunafish389/log...og=0&data=4-21 actually helped timing but Boostane was just put in.

This is the same tank of "100 octane" as above but 3 days late stage one plus 93 map same run as above https://datazap.me/u/tunafish389/log...og=0&data=4-21 absolutely murdered my timing. This is where I did the test above and witnessed the separation and why I abandoned the Boostane as a long term solution.

[anjuna]

If you look at your VANOS map, it changes by a considerable amount between cruise and high load. Additionally, VANOS is driven by target load, not actual load (like ignition).

This means if you call for a load of 200, you'll get your VANOS settings for 200 load.

This also means that if you're at 120 load actual but calling for target load 200, more than likely you'll have significantly less overlap than desired, causing dynamic compression to drive up, leading to instances where you get knock. This is also why the "VANOS spool" tables exist.

This has very little to do with octane. I suspect even if you pulled 3-5° from the "trouble" area, you'd still experience knock.

Look into areas that you can make realistic adjustments to your VANOS tables - i.e. you can't make 200 load at 1500rpm (well, you can, but thats rather hard on the drivetrain and conrods) so set your VANOS table accordingly, so it doesn't try to do stupid and unrealistic things.

VANOS and timing go hand in hand, but are driven different ways. It's up to you to make them cooperate.

Examples....
VANOS Intake


VANOS Exhaust


Log to match
https://datazap.me/u/marshessn/log-1...om=11187-11313

[sbuchana12]

Very interesting read Anjuna. So are you saying if I went WOT at 4000 compared to 2000 I would get less/no know on boost onset? Or maybe if I roll into a pull instead of just hammer it at 2500?

[TunafishE93]

I wouldnt take to much to what he says to heart unless you are running EWG. Which most of the cars on here are PWG which doesnt translate. I seen his how to and most doesnt cross reference.

[anjuna]

Originally Posted by TunafishE93

I wouldnt take to much to what he says to heart unless you are running EWG. Which most of the cars on here are PWG which doesnt translate. I seen his how to and most doesnt cross reference.

It's people like you who think they understand everything through sheer ignorance, spread misinformation, and make people like me (who are actually trying to help people understand and the community a better place) want to say "fuck this i'm out"

Your comment on EWG vs PWG drives the entire point home. VANOS has NOTHING to do with EWG vs PWG. On top of that, I AM PWG.

You simply lack a basic and fundemental understanding of how tunes work, how definitions work, how many DME's there are out there, and what the values you are tweaking in your BIN actually mean. You have no idea what the "VANOS" table you're tweaking actually is for, nor how many actually exist for your DME. Then you have the audacity to criticize my explanation thread, which also walks you through how to properly scale table values.

Sick of you Tuna. and sbuchana12 you can thank Tuna for ruining my desire to respond. All this child does is chase me down, criticize my help, and pretend he knows better.

[TunafishE93]

No it people like you that have no experience with the platform that is the problem. You don't even have a E9x car, why are you here?

And your the one that stocked my tread after repeating asking you to stop. Three times to be exact.

To say the octane has little to do with his timing correction when he's running 91 is just bad advice. Fix your octane or bring down your boost/timing and problem will be solved.

[f87CSdrifterential]

My mods are listed in my signature, I won't be logging again until the spring. I have pages of similar logs with a PS2 from repeated map revisions to trying OTS maps with meth (AEM 3350 1000cc w/ 80% meth) off. I am still trying to get this nailed down and getting rather discouraged at this point. Maybe someone will see something in mine that can help us both.

https://datazap.me/u/flashredslc/3rd...31-32-33-34-35

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by e82drifterential

My mods are listed in my signature, I won't be logging again until the spring. I have pages of similar logs with a PS2 from repeated map revisions to trying OTS maps with meth (AEM 3350 1000cc w/ 80% meth) off. I am still trying to get this nailed down and getting rather discouraged at this point. Maybe someone will see something in mine that can help us both.

https://datazap.me/u/flashredslc/3rd...31-32-33-34-35

If you spray too much methanol you will often bog and see timing corrections. You went WOT at 2,000rpm with methanol and have too large of nozzle for that boost target. If you had or have a progressive controller I would try adjusting it. Full spray around 14psi unless you plan to turn it up some more.

[sbuchana12]

What are your thoughts on this Turbod....In his log his STFT does not start pulling fuel until 3300rpm. I wonder if he is actually spraying meth during his initial pull?

Also, When you had your meth setup what percent did you start spraying? currently i am at 40 start and 70 full on the AEM meth controller. I am not sure what boost that is for start/full currently on the 5v system. Would that even start spraying during my Initial boost onset?

Actually now looking at my log again, I notice the corrections happens right before i start spraying! haha they start at 3300rpm till 3800rpm. Then i start pulling fuel cause of the meth registering at 3800rpm and corrections disappear.... hmmmm. so i need to start spraying at 5psi maybe and full at 14 like you suggested.

[f87CSdrifterential]

Originally Posted by Turbod

If you spray too much methanol you will often bog and see timing corrections. You went WOT at 2,000rpm with methanol and have too large of nozzle for that boost target. If you had or have a progressive controller I would try adjusting it. Full spray around 14psi unless you plan to turn it up some more.

11 PWG w/ 89k

The log posted was on OTS 2+ map with no meth spraying. Normally meth starts at 7-8 PSI with full spray at ~17psi through a 1100 nozzle into a single bung at the charge pipe. I have since purchased smaller nozzles to try in the spring.

I have tried 7 different revisions including a couple that the meth was removed from the map for diagnostic purposes. Logs have also been made with OTS maps and reset adaptations.

I have tried different intakes, Precision Racing Coils, Boostane (only 93 available where I live), went from 50:50 to 80:20 Meth blend, new spark plugs, smoke tested for boost leaks (ask much as you can), and finally removed my BFI solid mounts (because other platforms have false knock issues). The corrections are always there.

The LPFP is new, the HPFP and injectors are original as far as I know. Thinking about getting a 55 gallon drum of E85 and keeping it at my house.