[scollins]

I've been saving some cash in order to modify my E90 335i. My primary goal is to make it not only a better street car, but also a competent track car. I know that requires some compromise, as it is nearly impossible to have a great streetable car and a great trackable car all in one.

First off, my track experience is very limited, but the training budget (which is separate from the mod budget) is in place too. Since we are now in the wet & cold season here in Seattle, the HPDE sessions are pretty much done for the year. Over the winter I'd like to make some changes to the car, but only those that will not mask bad habits on the track. In other words, no r-comp tires right away! The plan is to hit the HPDE circuit hard next season, as I've got Pacific Raceways, Portland International Raceway and Bremerton Raceway all within a relatively short drive.

The question is, which changes should I make and when? The current budget is $6,000. What do you do?

Here is a list of the choices I've researched so far:

• Coilovers - Leaning towards TC Kline with camber plates, with JIC Cross a close second. KW V3 and Bilstein PSS10's as a more "budget friendly" option.
• Braces - E90 M3 OEM front strut brace and Hotchkis X-Brace
• Brakes - Alcon/Stasis 365mm front, upgraded rear brake lines and pads. I'm also looking at Stoptech, but that really eats up the budget (front & rear.)
• Wheels - Already have Advan RS 18" wheels (staggered), which reduced unsprung weight by 48 lbs
• Tires - When the time comes, looking at Dunlop Direzza Star Specs or Bridgestone RE-01Rs. I probably won't be able to run a dedicated tire/wheel combo for some time.
• Engine Performance - Exhaust only at this point (AE Quad). No plans for a piggyback, flash tune, downpipes, etc. at this point. I'm not looking for huge power gains, but mostly trying to drop a few pounds.
• Misc. - Lightweight battery setup from HP Autowerks. Collecting a few pieces of the M3 suspension that can be used.

As you can see, that list is well over the budget. Some changes will have to wait.....

Having changed out the stock wheels, getting an aftermarket exhaust and the battery switchover, I'm hoping to drop near 100 lbs off the car. I think that is about the extent of the weight loss because I'm not willing to go to Recaro seats or other more extreme weight loss measures.

What else is missing on my list? Obvioulsy, I'd love to add an LSD to the list, but it is very likely I have the welded ring gear, so that is a $4,000 mod all by itself.

So, what on that list can I do now vs. what should I postpone until I have multiple track sessions under my belt? I've been driving the car for over 17 months, so I know that I'd like to work the suspension and tires a little, just to get a better street ride. The plan is wear out the stock Potenza's before replacing them, and I'm still sitting on 7-8/32's all around. ZSP isn't bad, but I've ridden in a car with KW V3s and non-RFT tires, and it was much, much smoother on road.

Or do I save up another $4,000 and just get an E36 M3 to use a dedicated track car? If I didn't already have 3 cars in the driveway, that would be very tempting!

[e90ron]

The lightweight wheels and the alcon brake upgrade are a good starting point. Then the braces just to lessen the front chassis flex. Probably the kw's next or the bilsteins. I would start with that then take it to the track just to see how I would like it or if the mods have so far improved the car to the point that you appreciate the changes both on the road & track. But if the option of getting an E-36 M3 is a consideration, that may be the way to go. You might spend a lot less in the long run because you have to consider what might happen to your car "if" you have an offroad excursion. You did mention that you have limited track experience and a relatively brand new car is an expensive experiment. You might want to take a few classes and get some miles in. There's always a guy in these driving schools with the biggest turbo, lightest this and most expensive that. Doesn't guarantee he'll have the most fun. Just ask the Honda guys in F1. Good luck!

[leftcoastman]

I would go coilovers and tires. TcKline and camber plates + direzzas. That's the ticket.

[nicknaz]

LSD would be my first mod...

[1cleanm6]

i had JIC coils on my e46 m3...

first things first they customer service is TOP NOTCH!!...

the coils are fully adjustable from rebound, to height, to shocks..

and the best is...they make your car handle like no other..

Until today i have not driven a car that handeled as good as that car. I loved it....

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

I would go coilovers and tires. TcKline and camber plates + direzzas. That's the ticket.

After all the brake issues you had ...brakes arent on your short list?

[leftcoastman]

Yeah but I don't have stock power nor do I have street tires.....soooo...those things allow me to go faster and brake harder.

All very taxing on the braking system.


My thoughts on LSD are that they help you on corner exit, whereas tires and coilovers help you through the entire corner.

[2e9x's]

To be honest the e9x platform is already far more car than most mere mortal drivers (those of you not on that list know who you are) can fully exploit. I would not spend a single dollar on the car until you, as a driver, are able to consistently get 100% out of it, 100% of the time. Once the car is the limiting factor, and you are not, then you can start looking at making changes.

I have been to many events where folks have spent tons of money on their cars to make them faster, and ended-up going slower. It is not that hard to mess-up a BMW suspension setup and make the car handle WORSE. Until you have the experience under your belt to know how you like the car behave, you are just throwing away good money.

But that's just my opinion...reasonable minds may (and probably will) vary.

[scollins]

Originally Posted by 2e9x's

I have been to many events where folks have spent tons of money on their cars to make them faster, and ended-up going slower. It is not that hard to mess-up a BMW suspension setup and make the car handle WORSE. Until you have the experience under your belt to know how you like the car behave, you are just throwing away good money.

But that's just my opinion...reasonable minds may (and probably will) vary.

I know that the vast majority of people here (not in this particular sub-forum, but E90Post in general) all buy coilovers because they don't like the tire/fender gap. Their main concern is "slamming" the car for aestethic purposes. Hell, they even complain that the xi "looks like a 4x4", which I find as a most retarded statement.

So yes, I can see where some have spent a lot of money on their cars just to have them handle worse. Usually because the suspension is set at the lowest possible setting, thereby changing the geometry by which the suspension travels through, and also by drastically reducing the suspension travel. I also think these individuals tend to change the car before they have any time in them. At least in my case, I'm not swayed (much) by the aestethic issue, and I've driven the car for 17 months before even considering making changes.

At least if I make well-informed choices, the worst that I've done is stimulate the economy with some unnecessary consumer spending! At best, I take a good platform and make it better.

And in the end, if I screw it up and go back to stock, you guys will have the chance to buy some quality parts at a good discount!

[S4to335]

I say fix the loose nut behind the wheel.

[superlubricity]

Originally Posted by scollins

I know that the vast majority of people here (not in this particular sub-forum, but E90Post in general) all buy coilovers because they don't like the tire/fender gap. Their main concern is "slamming" the car for aestethic purposes. Hell, they even complain that the xi "looks like a 4x4", which I find as a most retarded statement.

So yes, I can see where some have spent a lot of money on their cars just to have them handle worse. Usually because the suspension is set at the lowest possible setting, thereby changing the geometry by which the suspension travels through, and also by drastically reducing the suspension travel. I also think these individuals tend to change the car before they have any time in them. At least in my case, I'm not swayed (much) by the aestethic issue, and I've driven the car for 17 months before even considering making changes.

At least if I make well-informed choices, the worst that I've done is stimulate the economy with some unnecessary consumer spending! At best, I take a good platform and make it better.

And in the end, if I screw it up and go back to stock, you guys will have the chance to buy some quality parts at a good discount!

well said and spot on

[kenneth]

This was my first year of HPDE, and I had good progress in those 5 days. The only mod I did after 3 track days, was to reduce the significant body rolls in turns and got myself a set of Koni Yellows and H&R springs, since I also need the car to be able to handle the war like potholes around here, and be able to drive it in the severe winter we have over here (ice/snow/cold). Coilovers was not an option, from discussions I had with experienced drivers/instructors.

City driving, the ZSP is shit as it meant airtime when hitting bumps, hitting bumps in curves was outright dangerous! So, for me at least, it was a good compromise, and did not cost a fortune. City driving smoother than the ZSP.

No other mod done, as I do not want, as you put it, mask driver mistakes. I am still on the runflats. Was going to get a tune, but scrapped that idea.

[kenneth]

Not wanting to flame anyone here, but some replies do tend to have a condescending flavor, in the likes of "Hey, you have NO track experience, so until you become an expert driver ANY mod is a no no!!"

Back to program! Sorry.

[leftcoastman]

I know I personally harp on people who make mods prior to having experience.

If it comes across poorly, sorry, but I'm trying to have you guys avoid the fate of many of my students who have modded their cars. The beginner level students generally don't understand car dynamics (understeer/oversteer/weight transfer/etc) and therefore throw go-fast parts on just because they watched Fast and the Furious one too many times.

I would say that for my beginner students, more often than not, their mods degraded the capabilities of their car.

Until you understand why and have experienced why your car understeers on corner entry and snaps to oversteer on corner exit, throwing money at the problem doesn't help. I had a student complain about how his stock 335i was understeering like a pig and he needed x,y,z to fix it, I asked him to let me show him a lap. By coming in slower and trail braking, the understeer magically disappeared, lol.

Then there's the "masking your errors" issue. After being the passenger in a wall kissing incident involving a brand new Evo, a beginner driver and a fresh set of Hoosiers, I refuse to get into a car with R-comps unless the student has at least 6 track days under their belt, preferably more.

[kenneth]

Yes, there are those kinds of high-risk students, thinking a fast car will necessarily mean faster driver. An instructor, as you just proved, has a sixth sense about those kind of students, just by their student's body language. Your job is then to "break" them down and "rebuild" the proper attitude, or do like you did, refuse the job altogether.

Hmmmm! one could view the unmodded 335 as a modded car, and refuse any newbie, unless they come back with a Corolla!!!

FWIW, I believe the OP did mention he did not want to mask his errors, but I agree it's never enough to remind them that, but......nicely?

It's all good though, we value experienced drivers opinion, and for that thank you

[kenneth]

On the East Coast, most HPDEs are attended by middled aged farts, like myself. So that could be a difference for you guys in the West Coast?

[scollins]

Originally Posted by S4to335

I say fix the loose nut behind the wheel.

Well, that IS the plan afterall! We use a similar term in the shooting sports, except we try to "fix the loose nut behind the trigger."

As for the rest of the comments, they are appreciated. I personally didn't read any condescesion in the posts, I've got thicker skin than that. If you can't take an answer that might be given, don't ask the question. This sub-forum is pretty small really, and if you've spent any time here, you know what the guys are going to say.

And frankly, I was surprised by leftcoastman's initial response, as it was not what I expected (coilovers and tires.) Now if I had said r-comps, I know I would have been berated soundly!

And I'm most certainly in the "middle aged" group (36, wife and 2 kids.) I'm not some young kid who has had his license for 2 years and daddy bought him a 300hp car. I'm the far more dangerous "mid life crisis" guy as the wife likes to say!

[S4to335]

Well, Scott..I could almost be your dads age..I have spent way too much in the past 11 years on modding cars. I made mistakes along the way..was conservative at times..and more moderate at others. With only $6K to spend..money isnt going to go far. I would suggest getting suspension...and maybe a decent set of hybrid High Performance/track tires..just dont go to R compounds. See how your car progresses..do more events..learn your car upside down and back...

Good luck man.

[2e9x's]

And I too apologize if I came across at all condescending. That was not my intention whatsoever. I am no instructor and myself have much left to learn. In that regard, I appreciate the warnings sent by the stock setup and value how forgiving the car is. Still after 22 years of auto-x and many years of track days I find that I am the limiting factor in a stock e92. I honestly don't think I would go that much faster with all the mods in the world.

As a comment on tires...The Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec is a GREAT tire for the street and the track. They are holding up well to the abuse of the track, allowed me a 1st in class in auto-x and are wearing decently. At the recent BMW CCA school at Cal Speedway, I spent a bit of time on a wet skid pad. It was amazing how difficult it was to get them to break away. On the track the tires do not fall off as some others, give good auditory warning and do not seem to chunk. On the street ride quality is fine, but after a few track days they get noisy.

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by S4to335

learn your car upside down ...

Good luck man.

Maybe not the best choice of words?

[kenneth]

I hear good things about the Direzza as well. Surprisingly, the runflats are not all that bad on track (or maybe I am not pushing it enough )

[scollins]

Originally Posted by 2e9x's

Maybe not the best choice of words?

No kidding! You'll notice no mention of "racing harness" or "roll cage" in my mod list!