[EricJ17]

Hello! Last year I bought an 07 328i sport package sedan for summer daily driving/beginner track work. I’ve never been on the track before. I spent all spring/early summer this year replacing fluids, gaskets, water pump, a wheel bearing etc. I now believe the car is 100% ready for the track with one exception. The shocks/struts are pretty much blown and they need to be replaced. The dilemma is that I love the way the factory e90 handles and rides on the street. I think it’s perfect. But I’ve heard that when people start tracking, they really notice that the suspension is too soft for the track, like most street cars. I searched this question and I didn’t find anything from people in a similar position. I only really saw people who were essentially trying to shave tenths off their lap times or doing double digit track days every year.

So, if I’m planning on attending 2-3 HPDEs per year then upgrading to a more track focused car like a corvette if I enjoy the track and want to continue, will factory suspension get me through that absolutely beginner phase and onto my next car, or should I just plan to upgrade the suspension now? Thanks!

[Bimmer_Bro]

Originally Posted by EricJ17

Hello! Last year I bought an 07 328i sport package sedan for summer daily driving/beginner track work. I’ve never been on the track before. I spent all spring/early summer this year replacing fluids, gaskets, water pump, a wheel bearing etc. I now believe the car is 100% ready for the track with one exception. The shocks/struts are pretty much blown and they need to be replaced. The dilemma is that I love the way the factory e90 handles and rides on the street. I think it’s perfect. But I’ve heard that when people start tracking, they really notice that the suspension is too soft for the track, like most street cars. I searched this question and I didn’t find anything from people in a similar position. I only really saw people who were essentially trying to shave tenths off their lap times or doing double digit track days every year.

So, if I’m planning on attending 2-3 HPDEs per year then upgrading to a more track focused car like a corvette if I enjoy the track and want to continue, will factory suspension get me through that absolutely beginner phase and onto my next car, or should I just plan to upgrade the suspension now? Thanks!

I think suspension and brakes are some of the most important upgrades if you are tracking.
My opinion is they will feel too soft. I would go with adjustable coil overs, new endlinks and new upper and lower control arms depending on your mileage.

What size and tires are you tracking with? Have you upgraded the brakes, lines and fluid ?

[whyzee125]

Originally Posted by EricJ17

Hello! Last year I bought an 07 328i sport package sedan for summer daily driving/beginner track work. I’ve never been on the track before. I spent all spring/early summer this year replacing fluids, gaskets, water pump, a wheel bearing etc. I now believe the car is 100% ready for the track with one exception. The shocks/struts are pretty much blown and they need to be replaced. The dilemma is that I love the way the factory e90 handles and rides on the street. I think it’s perfect. But I’ve heard that when people start tracking, they really notice that the suspension is too soft for the track, like most street cars. I searched this question and I didn’t find anything from people in a similar position. I only really saw people who were essentially trying to shave tenths off their lap times or doing double digit track days every year.

So, if I’m planning on attending 2-3 HPDEs per year then upgrading to a more track focused car like a corvette if I enjoy the track and want to continue, will factory suspension get me through that absolutely beginner phase and onto my next car, or should I just plan to upgrade the suspension now? Thanks!

Koni yellows are what you want. They pair nicely with factory springs and don’t ruin the ride quality and you can stiffen them up for track days. Most would probably find a happy medium and leave them alone as they have more rebound dampening than OEM shocks but are still very comfortable. They also pair well with lowering springs if you decide to upgrade that later

[Brian86]

By all means fix the blown shocks. Koni or Bilstein are good options. Upgraded brake pads and fresh dot 4 fluid are a good idea.

Otherwise don't do anything to the car but maintenance. As a beginner all the suspension and engine gizmos in the world won't matter. Wait until you get some practice and experience.

[Torgus]

The real question is how much do you want to spend if you are only doing 2-3 a year while already planning to upgrade to a c7/c8

Once you give a budget and if you will be doing the install yourself or having a shop do it then people can help advise.

[edycol]

So, the first thing to keep in mind: you are tracking 14-year-old vehicle and you are not getting paid for it.
Here is what I think is basics you have to address:

1. Did you replace the mickey mouse flange and expansion tank? Those are the two weakest points in the cooling system and running it on track 14 year old mickey mouse flange or expansion tank is really not a good idea. Replace AT LEAST these two items. IMO you should replace those two and ALL coolant hoses. I just did that on my 2011 328 that I also track.

2. Is it stick or automatic? If stick you might get away in Ohio considering altitude without oil cooler. You might! If automatic IMO you will have issues. Considering that OH does not have any meaningful altitude you can go fluid/fluid heat exchanger that goes on oil filter housing. It will keep oil temperature in check imo. The absolute solution is to go oil cooler from 335 (I did that) and in N52 that will keep the engine cool on track. It is basically overkill for N52 and that is what you want. If you do not have either of these but you are eager to go on track, keep the heat on maximum with ventilation on maximum and remove cowling where AC filter is. That is just band-aid but might work.
Coolant mix? Drop it to 20/80 or 30/70. You really want more distilled water than coolant concentrate. You need enough coolant concentrate just to keep water pump lubricated. Water has higher heat conductivity and will dissipate heat faster.

3. Suspension: First, you MUST replace shocks. When shocks in BMW start to leak, they are gonna lose damping super fast. My preference is Beilstein. I have B6 on my vehicle as I want a daily driver (I drop kids every morning with it) and I ski taking BMW once a week. So lowering for me was not an option. But I found out B6 is really, really good, stiff, tough shock that does not crash over bumps. B4 is a daily driver option that is a mild upgrade over OE shocks. Make sure you change mounts and in the back use Monroe mounts as they are a really good upgrade.
But honestly, at 14 years you are looking at a complete overhaul of suspension. I did that on my 328. Since mine is xDrive I could not go M3 control arms in front so I used Lamfoerder (OE supplier) control arms, links, etc. in front, and TRW M3 upper and lower wishbone and Lamforeder long control arm in the back, as well as links for sway bar and bushing for the sway bar. I installed Powerflex street performance rear subframe bushings too. That stiffened car a lot, but kept it comfortable. It actually eliminated a lot of understeer present in xDrive models by making rear suspension quicker in turns.

4. Brakes. Pre-LCI 328 is a bit tricky on track. The rear brake sensor is too sensitive to heat and will put you in limp mode, especially if you keep DSC on. You must turn off all nannies like TC and DSC. Still, that might won't be enough. I think you can code out that but I am not familiar with how.
Still, your front brakes are not adequate on pre-LCI for the track. You only have 300mm rotor in front. IMO, you should at least install 335 front brakes (bolt-on). That does not require any coding and rotor is 348x30mm and the pad is bigger. Next best thing is to go front and rear 335. Rear 335 brakes are much bigger and coding is required. If you have ISTA you can do it or ProTool (reinforced brakes vehicle order).
- Absolutely you must have fresh brake fluid. Minimum 280c and I would go ATE TYP200. If you go trackpads like EBC Yellowstuff, Hawk HP+, Ferodo DS2500 etc. your pads will be able to take much more heat. But then it will put more strain on rotors and fluid. Next weak spot is the rotor (if you stay with your rotors) or brake fluid. In that case, you can go EBC307 fluid, TRW racing, Motul RBF600, Brembo LCF600 or even racing specific fluids like Motul RBF 660, Brembo HTC 64T.
Do not spend money on drilled rotors. At most get slotted or plain rotors from reputable manufacturers like ATE, Pagid, Textar, Zimmerman, Brembo will do it. Drilled rotors can crack on track and you really do not want to have that happening.

5. Tires? I would not go track-specific tires 200 treadwear or lower. They are more appropriate for track, but will put much more strain on your suspension and you really do not know in what conditions are your bushings etc. unless you replace all that. Get some nice summer performance tires like Yokohama Advan Apex (very good tire, cheap). I sue that tire ncs. bang for a buck and allows me to slide a bit so I do not overburden suspension parts.

6. DO NOT forget sunscreen, camping chair, some tools, spare tire, cold water (bring a small cooler with ice pack), and hat!

Edit: I forgot two key things:
1. In what condition is your OFHG? If leaking replace. Did you replace the tensioner and belt? When the belt snaps on N52 it can get sucked through front main seal and game over.
2. Oil. Get really good oil like Catrol 0W40, Mobil1 0W40 FS, Mobil1 5W40 FS. All available in Wal Mart. Must be at max or even above a bit. N52 does not like hard left turns and if G forces are very high (above 1) and sustained too long it can stay without oil pressure. So maximum level is a must if not bit over. Bring some back up oil, at least 1qt.

[EricJ17]

Originally Posted by Brian86

By all means fix the blown shocks. Koni or Bilstein are good options. Upgraded brake pads and fresh dot 4 fluid are a good idea.

Otherwise don't do anything to the car but maintenance. As a beginner all the suspension and engine gizmos in the world won't matter. Wait until you get some practice and experience.

Which Bilsteins? Would even the B4 be a decent upgrade over the factory Sachs or would I need B8 or better to notice much of a difference? If I spend much more than the cost of B4s I will most likely get a B12 kit. Your response is exactly my thought process though. Any other upgrades will be completely lost on me and a waste of money. I don’t mind spending a little on a nice suspension setup I just don’t want to waste money on something I can’t even utilize due to a lack of ability.

I am probably going to do fluid and pads but stop there for now. The fluid was just replaced 7k miles ago but I need to check the service records to see if it was dot 4. Thanks for the advice!

[EricJ17]

Originally Posted by edycol

So, the first thing to keep in mind: you are tracking 14-year-old vehicle and you are not getting paid for it.
Here is what I think is basics you have to address:

1. Did you replace the mickey mouse flange and expansion tank? Those are the two weakest points in the cooling system and running it on track 14 year old mickey mouse flange or expansion tank is really not a good idea. Replace AT LEAST these two items. IMO you should replace those two and ALL coolant hoses. I just did that on my 2011 328 that I also track.

2. Is it stick or automatic? If stick you might get away in Ohio considering altitude without oil cooler. You might! If automatic IMO you will have issues. Considering that OH does not have any meaningful altitude you can go fluid/fluid heat exchanger that goes on oil filter housing. It will keep oil temperature in check imo. The absolute solution is to go oil cooler from 335 (I did that) and in N52 that will keep the engine cool on track. It is basically overkill for N52 and that is what you want. If you do not have either of these but you are eager to go on track, keep the heat on maximum with ventilation on maximum and remove cowling where AC filter is. That is just band-aid but might work.
Coolant mix? Drop it to 20/80 or 30/70. You really want more distilled water than coolant concentrate. You need enough coolant concentrate just to keep water pump lubricated. Water has higher heat conductivity and will dissipate heat faster.

3. Suspension: First, you MUST replace shocks. When shocks in BMW start to leak, they are gonna lose damping super fast. My preference is Beilstein. I have B6 on my vehicle as I want a daily driver (I drop kids every morning with it) and I ski taking BMW once a week. So lowering for me was not an option. But I found out B6 is really, really good, stiff, tough shock that does not crash over bumps. B4 is a daily driver option that is a mild upgrade over OE shocks. Make sure you change mounts and in the back use Monroe mounts as they are a really good upgrade.
But honestly, at 14 years you are looking at a complete overhaul of suspension. I did that on my 328. Since mine is xDrive I could not go M3 control arms in front so I used Lamfoerder (OE supplier) control arms, links, etc. in front, and TRW M3 upper and lower wishbone and Lamforeder long control arm in the back, as well as links for sway bar and bushing for the sway bar. I installed Powerflex street performance rear subframe bushings too. That stiffened car a lot, but kept it comfortable. It actually eliminated a lot of understeer present in xDrive models by making rear suspension quicker in turns.

4. Brakes. Pre-LCI 328 is a bit tricky on track. The rear brake sensor is too sensitive to heat and will put you in limp mode, especially if you keep DSC on. You must turn off all nannies like TC and DSC. Still, that might won't be enough. I think you can code out that but I am not familiar with how.
Still, your front brakes are not adequate on pre-LCI for the track. You only have 300mm rotor in front. IMO, you should at least install 335 front brakes (bolt-on). That does not require any coding and rotor is 348x30mm and the pad is bigger. Next best thing is to go front and rear 335. Rear 335 brakes are much bigger and coding is required. If you have ISTA you can do it or ProTool (reinforced brakes vehicle order).
- Absolutely you must have fresh brake fluid. Minimum 280c and I would go ATE TYP200. If you go trackpads like EBC Yellowstuff, Hawk HP+, Ferodo DS2500 etc. your pads will be able to take much more heat. But then it will put more strain on rotors and fluid. Next weak spot is the rotor (if you stay with your rotors) or brake fluid. In that case, you can go EBC307 fluid, TRW racing, Motul RBF600, Brembo LCF600 or even racing specific fluids like Motul RBF 660, Brembo HTC 64T.
Do not spend money on drilled rotors. At most get slotted or plain rotors from reputable manufacturers like ATE, Pagid, Textar, Zimmerman, Brembo will do it. Drilled rotors can crack on track and you really do not want to have that happening.

5. Tires? I would not go track-specific tires 200 treadwear or lower. They are more appropriate for track, but will put much more strain on your suspension and you really do not know in what conditions are your bushings etc. unless you replace all that. Get some nice summer performance tires like Yokohama Advan Apex (very good tire, cheap). I sue that tire ncs. bang for a buck and allows me to slide a bit so I do not overburden suspension parts.

6. DO NOT forget sunscreen, camping chair, some tools, spare tire, cold water (bring a small cooler with ice pack), and hat!

1. I just replaced the Mickey Mouse flange 100 miles ago and the expansion tank was done by the previous owner and most of the hoses (amazingly no aluminum Mickey Mouse flange though) at 83k miles and the car now has 99k.

2. It’s a manual. I will look into the cooling options.

3. Thanks for the insight/options. I’ll look into some of that. The rear diff bushings are the only things I’m currently neglecting. The previous owner was on top of having bushings and control arms replaced as needed, evidenced by service records. I’ve replaced engine mounts and inner/outer tie rod ends and I have transmission mounts ready to go in but uninstalled.

4. As for brakes I’m going to be careful about running the right pads and fluid and I don’t want anything getting too hot but I’m hoping that will be sufficient for a first timer. As of right now I don’t want to replace the calipers. I’ve read up on the rear brake overheating issue. My understanding is it’s not an actual sensor as there is no temperature sensor, but it’s software controlled based on various variables the ecm receives. I don’t think I’ll be doing enough my first few times out to have an issue but that’s a chance I’m willing to take.

5. I’m planning on getting some Continental ExtremeContact Sports soon but I honestly may just use the all season RFTs that came with the car and have less than 5k miles my first time out. Again, it’s my first time and I don’t think I’m going to have the ability to out drive the tires. The brakes are a bigger concern for me.

6. Always good things to keep in mind!

[aphael]

Originally Posted by EricJ17

Which Bilsteins? Would even the B4 be a decent upgrade over the factory Sachs or would I need B8 or better to notice much of a difference? If I spend much more than the cost of B4s I will most likely get a B12 kit. Your response is exactly my thought process though. Any other upgrades will be completely lost on me and a waste of money. I don’t mind spending a little on a nice suspension setup I just don’t want to waste money on something I can’t even utilize due to a lack of ability.

I am probably going to do fluid and pads but stop there for now. The fluid was just replaced 7k miles ago but I need to check the service records to see if it was dot 4. Thanks for the advice!

I thought the car came with bilstein b4 actually. atleast on my e92 sport 328i it did. To be honest, what edycol said was great information but I think you should do the maintenance fixes then track to see what you actually need. My mickey mouse flange just broke last week when removing it to do OFHG so definitely upgrade it to a metal one.

People like different setups and really on track you can start noticing what you would like the car to do better. I think a good summer tire will be pretty adequate if you dont have a set of spare wheels like the indy500, ps4s, continental ecs, or the advans he suggested. They all tend to break off progressively so you can explore the limits vs some 200tw tires that can snap when they break.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by EricJ17

1. I just replaced the Mickey Mouse flange 100 miles ago and the expansion tank was done by the previous owner and most of the hoses (amazingly no aluminum Mickey Mouse flange though) at 83k miles and the car now has 99k.

2. It’s a manual. I will look into the cooling options.

3. Thanks for the insight/options. I’ll look into some of that. The rear diff bushings are the only things I’m currently neglecting. The previous owner was on top of having bushings and control arms replaced as needed, evidenced by service records. I’ve replaced engine mounts and inner/outer tie rod ends and I have transmission mounts ready to go in but uninstalled.

4. As for brakes I’m going to be careful about running the right pads and fluid and I don’t want anything getting too hot but I’m hoping that will be sufficient for a first timer. As of right now I don’t want to replace the calipers. I’ve read up on the rear brake overheating issue. My understanding is it’s not an actual sensor as there is no temperature sensor, but it’s software controlled based on various variables the ecm receives. I don’t think I’ll be doing enough my first few times out to have an issue but that’s a chance I’m willing to take.

5. I’m planning on getting some Continental ExtremeContact Sports soon but I honestly may just use the all season RFTs that came with the car and have less than 5k miles my first time out. Again, it’s my first time and I don’t think I’m going to have the ability to out drive the tires. The brakes are a bigger concern for me.

6. Always good things to keep in mind!

Ok,
So IMO you have several things to consider:
1. Brakes are biggest concern. 335 calipers are uber cheap. Actually you can get at NAPA rebuilt ones for $100 something. Or get used and replace on your own seal and boot.
2. B4 shocks are 10% harder. Nice upgrade on your OE spring. B6 are much better on track and serious stuff. B8 are same as B6 just for lowered vehicles.
3. Bridgestone DriveGuards on a car? You might. I tried when I was "feeling " the car. I actually ripped off part of the thread. It depends how tough track is on the vehicle? Which track you going to?

[EricJ17]

Originally Posted by edycol

Ok,
So IMO you have several things to consider:
1. Brakes are biggest concern. 335 calipers are uber cheap. Actually you can get at NAPA rebuilt ones for $100 something. Or get used and replace on your own seal and boot.
2. B4 shocks are 10% harder. Nice upgrade on your OE spring. B6 are much better on track and serious stuff. B8 are same as B6 just for lowered vehicles.
3. Bridgestone DriveGuards on a car? You might. I tried when I was "feeling " the car. I actually ripped off part of the thread. It depends how tough track is on the vehicle? Which track you going to?

Gotcha, thanks. So the tires are my biggest “not sure” of the entire process. Again, just because I don’t want to waste money, not because I want to be cheap. I’m planning on Mid-Ohio as my first track.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by EricJ17

Gotcha, thanks. So the tires are my biggest “not sure” of the entire process. Again, just because I don’t want to waste money, not because I want to be cheap. I’m planning on Mid-Ohio as my first track.

I understand. You can by all means go with your current set up. I have seen regular Chevrolet Impalas, Cruze's, etc. with some seriously inadequate tires. People just come to blow off steam. So, keep RFT and see where you at. If you like it, find on Craiglist used BMW wheels. Don't go aftermarket unless reputable manufacturer like BBS, Apex, Borbet etc. BMW wheels are made by BBS and Borbet. They are hard, good for track. Than get summer performance tire like Continental Ex. contact, Advan etc. PSS or PS4S are best of the best but expensive IMO for bit of fun on track.

[edycol]

That track IMO will be hard on brakes.
Also, if you go with current RFT tires, don't go wild with track pads. Tires won't be able to utilize that much braking force. Check Stoptech Sport pads. They can sustain bit more heat but are not that aggressive as some better pads. You can go EBC Redstuff which are very good street performance pad. They might do ok since 328 is not that powerful.

[Brian86]

Mid-O is gentle on brakes. A lot of winding up and down in 3rd gear around the circuit. The surface is bad. It's rough, and traction is both very low and inconsistent because there is a ton of race rubber down and it's been abraded very smooth.

It's also pure joy to drive.

For an HPDE you'll be on the club circuit so the chicane decelerates you before keyhole. China beach is the only place that will spike the temps. Stick with a 7-pedal there and you'll be fine. As a beginner you'd be insane to drive into China beach at 120mph and attempt to threshold anyway.

Seriously.... Throw on some shocks, get some high temp pads, bleed the brakes, send the club your money, and get behind the wheel.

If you keep reading this thread the car will never be 'ready'

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by edycol

N52 does not like hard left turns and if G forces are very high (above 1) and sustained too long it can stay without oil pressure

Where did you get this info? I’ve only seen that posted in relation to N54/55 motors never once heard of a N52 being oil starved on a track. From all the research I did if you are on street tires (not R compound) then you will not have to be concerned about starvation.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

Where did you get this info? I’ve only seen that posted in relation to N54/55 motors never once heard of a N52 being oil starved on a track. From all the research I did if you are on street tires (not R compound) then you will not have to be concerned about starvation.

I stumbled on enough info here too about N51/52 starvation issues.
I can see that street tires could mitigate that issue. I personally don't go 200W or lower bcs. this reason and suspension.

[lowrydr310]

Originally Posted by EricJ17

Which Bilsteins? Would even the B4 be a decent upgrade over the factory Sachs or would I need B8 or better to notice much of a difference? If I spend much more than the cost of B4s I will most likely get a B12 kit. Your response is exactly my thought process though. Any other upgrades will be completely lost on me and a waste of money. I don’t mind spending a little on a nice suspension setup I just don’t want to waste money on something I can’t even utilize due to a lack of ability.

I am probably going to do fluid and pads but stop there for now. The fluid was just replaced 7k miles ago but I need to check the service records to see if it was dot 4. Thanks for the advice!

I just did a suspension refresh on my 330 and went with the B4 struts up front and Sachs OEM shocks in the rear (all for original sport package springs that came on the car.) Supposed to have B4 in the rear too but Bilstein had some supply issues with incorrect machining of the top mount threads. The ones I received wouldn't work with the upper strut mount nut and the replacements were backordered too far out so I settled on the Sachs for now.

I went back and forth deciding on this setup (OEM equivalent pretty much) or the B12 or even B14 kit, and settled on this for a few reasons, mostly because it was a lot cheaper but also because I'm not very experienced on the track with this car, and it'll be plenty capable as-is. Despite the interest, I haven't made it to any track events yet, just some occasional canyon cruising at the posted speed limits which is plenty of fun.

I may still upgrade to the B12 or B14 next year if I run out of things to do on this car.