[Kelvin1000]

Sorry this took me so long to do guys but here is the proof of what my butt dyno has been telling me:

Even though I like the Revision 2 throttle response, I think I would like to have the extra 10HP accross the meat of the curve back.

These are pics of the best 2 runs with the original flash and then with revision 2. Although I still think that it is a great product, I think that we can now agree that they detuned the reflash.

I bet if I "upgrade" to stage 3 after buying the intercooler and oil cooler that the extra boost the software gives me takes me back to those extra 10 HP... (a few thousand dollars later)...

This is dissapointing to say the least and Dinan will be hearing from me.

I FEEL CHEATED

http://www.photoworks.com/util/slide...1&startIndex=8

http://www.photoworks.com/util/slide...1&startIndex=7

Updated 11//26/2008:

Ok guys, I just spoke with the owner of one of the biggest Dinan distributors in the Southeast and he was very much aware of the situation as he had spoken to Steve Dinan himself because several customers had issues with the power reduction after the revision.

It turns out that the decision to decrease the aggressiveness of the original tune was actually mandated by BMW. Dinan had to comply with the changes they requested.

He also told me that there was no way of going back to the original because Dinan supplies them with updated software card and dealers are always required to send back the old cards.

The challenge now is to find a Dinan dealer that somehow might have kept the old program card.

The plot thinkens...

[sambonator]

I would contact Dinan directly and express your concerns. There are so many factors that determine power output from our engines, that your dynos are really meaningless without back to back testing of the two revisions on the same dyno, same day, with repeatable results going back and forth. Its become more clear that there are issues with the N54 engine, including common issues with a degrading fuel pump that begins to saps a lot of power.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by sambonator

I would contact Dinan directly and express your concerns. There are so many factors that determine power output from our engines, that your dynos are really meaningless without back to back testing of the two revisions on the same dyno, same day, with repeatable results going back and forth. Its become more clear that there are issues with the N54 engine, including common issues with a degrading fuel pump that begins to saps a lot of power.

It's not clear to me. Please explain what issues there are besides the fuel pump? The only other problem I've read about deals with the 5th and 6th cylinders.

[hun77777]

wastegate?

[Kelvin1000]

I have no issues of any sort.

As soon as I got the reflash I felt a difference in power.

Today was cooler and less humid than the last time I went to the dyno in the summertime.

My car is working fine but I know that Dinan detuned the reflash.

[vase330]

Well, I remember feeling the same that infact they detuned it vs the original, but the original AT transmission map was not very good. I had gear hunting around the 55-65mph range in hilly places which was awful because speed limits are in that zone too. Anyway it was explained that what actually happened is they re-distributed the powerband, and you got more tq down low much earlier and that made it seem like the top end was loped of. I don't know, I just know I had no choice but to accept it because I did not have a before and after dyno to go by. Nobody else had one on the same car\ same dyno to compare either. And now yours is really not admissible in all fairness because a lot of time passed between dynos and there are so many possible factors affecting the results they are merely informational and not proof of anything at all.

That said, I do agree with you, it felt as if there in fact was a detune according to my butt dyno too, and it has proved to be reasonably accurate at perceiving performance. Then again just mt butt dyno is even less admissible than your at best flawed dyno.

[M4TW]

Though I got the FMIC when I got the revision, my 1/4 mile times improved by 3-4 tenths. Boost is decreased when the temps drop with the Dinan tune but hp should be about the same so maybe that has something to do with it.

[Kelvin1000]

Originally Posted by Sparkplug

Though I got the FMIC when I got the revision, my 1/4 mile times improved by 3-4 tenths. Boost is decreased when the temps drop with the Dinan tune but hp should be about the same so maybe that has something to do with it.

Maybe the original flash is now = stage 3 flash

[Orb]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

Sorry this took me so long to do guys but here is the proof of what my butt dyno has been telling me:

Even though I like the Revision 2 throttle response, I think I would like to have the extra 10HP accross the meat of the curve back.

These are pics of the best 2 runs with the original flash and then with revision 2. Although I still think that it is a great product, I think that we can now agree that they detuned the reflash.

I bet if I "upgrade" to stage 3 after buying the intercooler and oil cooler that the extra boost the software gives me takes me back to those extra 10 HP... (a few thousand dollars later)...

This is dissapointing to say the least and Dinan will be hearing from me.

I FEEL CHEATED

http://www.photoworks.com/util/slide...1&startIndex=8

http://www.photoworks.com/util/slide...1&startIndex=7

You are missing a point that being said constantly. If you don't have a 3rd generation fuel pump then you car is detuned and this is known fact!!!!! You will keep on losing power until it dies. The software mechanism to save the engine is more aggressive as it gets worse and to BMW credit is fairly smooth and is not the same for each version of the saoftware. Any car with a tune is going have this problem unless the safety protocols are by passed like the PROcede for instance.

Orb

[vase330]

Orb, you are right. From my experience, I gradually lost mid-range punch over time and attributed it to wastegates. I knew I was loosing power for sure. Eventually I could not spin my stock run flats at will with the nannies still on.(No flashing DSC light) After the HPFP and wastegate replacement, I easily get the DSC light to light up like a flashing neon light. My power is definitely back. So it could well be that my dying fuel pump was sapping a lot of the power. I got the 3rd generation pump so knock on wood this is done deal now.

[Kelvin1000]

Originally Posted by vase330

Orb, you are right. From my experience, I gradually lost mid-range punch over time and attributed it to wastegates. I knew I was loosing power for sure. Eventually I could not spin my stock run flats at will with the nannies still on.(No flashing DSC light) After the HPFP and wastegate replacement, I easily get the DSC light to light up like a flashing neon light. My power is definitely back. So it could well be that my dying fuel pump was sapping a lot of the power. I got the 3rd generation pump so knock on wood this is done deal now.

How did you get BMW to replace the fuel pump without it dying first???

[canesr1]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

Sorry this took me so long to do guys but here is the proof of what my butt dyno has been telling me:

Even though I like the Revision 2 throttle response, I think I would like to have the extra 10HP accross the meat of the curve back.

These are pics of the best 2 runs with the original flash and then with revision 2. Although I still think that it is a great product, I think that we can now agree that they detuned the reflash.

I bet if I "upgrade" to stage 3 after buying the intercooler and oil cooler that the extra boost the software gives me takes me back to those extra 10 HP... (a few thousand dollars later)...

This is dissapointing to say the least and Dinan will be hearing from me.

I FEEL CHEATED

http://www.photoworks.com/util/slide...1&startIndex=8

http://www.photoworks.com/util/slide...1&startIndex=7

I was one of the 1st to get the original flash back in december '07. Rev 1 WAS AWESOME! I was flashed to rev 2 in april and have been regretting it ever since. There is NO DOUBT in my mind they detuned rev 2! I've been saying this since april. I even took my car back to the dealer to make sure I was on stage 2rev2 and not stage 1. Dinan contacted me also to see why I was experiencing problems and they were adamant they did not detune rev 2.
I know they did.
There is nothing else wrong with my car, ie. fuel pump/wastegate, etc..
When I picked my car up 2 hours after dropping it off, I IMMEDIATELY noticed a power loss. I don't want to hear the B.S. about my fuel pump going bad. I had awesome power for 4 months with rev1 with NO PROBLEMS AT ALL and NEVER A LOSS OF POWER. NEVER!

At this point I would be willing to take a refund and be flashed back to stock just for the principle of being deceived by Dinan and being charged for something good, only to have it taken away and replaced with a MUCH WEAKER tune. This is not what I signed up for!
This may be the last $$ I ever give dinan unless they do something about it. I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars on their products and am not happy with the bait and switch game they pulled(and continually deny!!!!!)

[Sniz]

^ouch

[Kelvin1000]

Originally Posted by canesr1

I was one of the 1st to get the original flash back in december '07. Rev 1 WAS AWESOME! I was flashed to rev 2 in april and have been regretting it ever since. There is NO DOUBT in my mind they detuned rev 2! I've been saying this since april. I even took my car back to the dealer to make sure I was on stage 2rev2 and not stage 1. Dinan contacted me also to see why I was experiencing problems and they were adamant they did not detune rev 2.
I know they did.
There is nothing else wrong with my car, ie. fuel pump/wastegate, etc..
When I picked my car up 2 hours after dropping it off, I IMMEDIATELY noticed a power loss. I don't want to hear the B.S. about my fuel pump going bad. I had awesome power for 4 months with rev1 with NO PROBLEMS AT ALL and NEVER A LOSS OF POWER. NEVER!

At this point I would be willing to take a refund and be flashed back to stock just for the principle of being deceived by Dinan and being charged for something good, only to have it taken away and replaced with a MUCH WEAKER tune. This is not what I signed up for!
This may be the last $$ I ever give dinan unless they do something about it. I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars on their products and am not happy with the bait and switch game they pulled(and continually deny!!!!!)

THIS IS CORRECT and I agree 100% as I too noticed the difference the very same day. At first I thought that maybe because the throttle response was a bit better that I did not notice the sudden surge of power but my car has never been the same.

Unless my fuel pump went bad the same day of the reflash, Then I have to arrive at this same conclusion.

The original flash will be missed.

Shame on Dinan.

[sambonator]

ybbiz34? ybbiz34? ...Bueller?

[Orb]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

THIS IS CORRECT and I agree 100% as I too noticed the difference the very same day. At first I thought that maybe because the throttle response was a bit better that I did not notice the sudden surge of power but my car has never been the same.

Unless my fuel pump went bad the same day of the reflash, Then I have to arrive at this same conclusion.

The original flash will be missed.

Shame on Dinan.

You are both in denial as you think that the 2nd generation pump is fine. The pump will fail sooner or later and leave your stranded on the side road. Your ignorance is your worst enemy. You’re not even close to being the first to having these problems and all have been resolved with either a new pump or spark plugs and the power increase and gas mileage improved drastically.

As the code is upgraded they use the same base code from BMW so all those safety protocols are left untouched for the most part. The newer flash will use 29.x base code and they will match the latest code every few months or they risk incompatibility with other sub system. The newer programming for BMW is more aggressive at cutting throttle and pulling back time and even short shifting auto just to preserver the engine when fuel demand is not being met. I am one of the few that have seen this first hand how drastic it can on race track…it cuts back power to a stand still and is fully controlled. BMW does not have choice in this. If they don’t take drastic steps to preserve the engine it can be written off in just a few seconds.

The problem is the BMW has screwed me and every 335i owner on this site with lack of response to fuel pump replacement. If you have tune you have no choice to replace the pump on your own dime or wait for the recall.

Orb

[vase330]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

How did you get BMW to replace the fuel pump without it dying first???

They claimed it passed the pressure test, but I just laughed at them. It means nothing since the car was not even drivable. I asked them to test drive it. And tech barely left dealership before the car sputtered out. Pump was 99% dead, and I was just puzzled how it could pass their test yet be unable to drive the car even a mile. Field Engineer gave the green light to change it. What were they going to do, send me home with car that couldn't go a mile without dying?

[Simp03]

My dinan stage 2 tune was installed in October 08. It is D90030T3 software 1.6. Is this the original or the revised stage 2? My car runs great the way it is (01-08 production) but if this is the revised tune I would love to have felt the old tune.

[Bubbles]

Kelvin and Cane.

Get your fuel pump replaced. The failing pump and foul plugs are your problem.

[Kelvin1000]

Guys,

I am not "ignorant" when it comes to this.

Please understand that I felt the difference the same day I got my reflash...

Lets put it another way:

Find me a Dinan Stage 2 (Revision 2) dyno giving you 330+ to the wheels with no other mods. I bet there aren't any.

Now look for the original Dinan flash and you will find several including mine which did 335+WHP.

Either way, I will try to get it replaced as I respect and appreciate the advice you guys are giving me.

BTW, I called BMW and the recall goes by VIN # and they say my car does not have a recall for the fuel pump but I can bring it in for a "diagnostics" check.

I have to say I like going to the dealer about as much as I like going to the dentist.

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

...BTW, I called BMW and the recall goes by VIN # and they say my car does not have a recall for the fuel pump but I can bring it in for a "diagnostics" check.

All Rev2 pumps need to be recalled, but to cut costs BMW have limited the recall to a few early VINs.

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

I have to say I like going to the dealer about as much as I like going to the dentist.

I'd rather go to the dentist than go through BMW service...

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

Guys,

I am not "ignorant" when it comes to this.

Please understand that I felt the difference the same day I got my reflash...

Lets put it another way:

Find me a Dinan Stage 2 (Revision 2) dyno giving you 330+ to the wheels with no other mods. I bet there aren't any.

Now look for the original Dinan flash and you will find several including mine which did 335+WHP.

Either way, I will try to get it replaced as I respect and appreciate the advice you guys are giving me.

BTW, I called BMW and the recall goes by VIN # and they say my car does not have a recall for the fuel pump but I can bring it in for a "diagnostics" check.

I have to say I like going to the dealer about as much as I like going to the dentist.

Well, I with you on preference of the original flash. Granted my turbos, spark plugs and fuel pump were replaced. I would love to go back to the linear response of the Original, but that is no longer an option.

How many miles have you put on the car post-flash?