[KoenG]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...aendigen-m-an/

Translation of highlights:

1. What did you learn in the 3 years BMW M?

When you fight for the things you value most, you'll get it! We have changed some important things on the level of product proposal as on the level of organisation. Certainly the integration of M and Motrosport is to be noted. Finally we brought together what belonged together in the first place! Also, it was thrilling to experience the M fanbase with whom we could interact directly and which provided instant feedback. This is something really rare in the industry.

2. What was the negative experience you'd rather not had?

Nothing shocking really. When you are this intense with social media like we are, you'll get confronted with recurrent nagging comments. That's something you should be able to deal with.

3. For which things, that were important to you, you'd had to fight hard?

It was far from clear that the future of M moves in the direction of partial and full electrification. I needed to convince the organisation of this. Also, many discussions were held about the importance of motorsport in the future since in the organisation there were several conflicting opinions about that! But now, everybody agrees with the future program that we drew up.

4. For which model you'd had to fight hard?

The M3 touring, since it was never part of a model roadmap. It originated out of the brain of some creative heads in Garching and it appeared totally out of the blue (like a submarine) out the workshop. It was such an accomplished car, that the approval for mass production was achieved fast. This also shows that the organisation is extreme healthy, engaged and intrinsical motivated.

5. Why does the M3 touring comes only now, since it's clearly not a new idea?

The circumstances were never this good! The G20 touring uses the same rear axle and we offer now for the first time the X-drive option which is a necessity for high performance estates.

6. Now there is one, soon a second BEV M Performance model. What about a high performance model?

Yes, the i4M50 and a new variant for the iX. But then we'll show the concept for a BEV high performance model. And... in the context of the "new class", there will be a major transition to high performance BEVs.

7. How important is electrical autonomy of a high performance PHEV?

We want that the car has a significant electrical autonomy. We see the use particularly in the city centre.

8. Is there a synergy with the LMDh-Motorsport project that you announced for 2023?

The ICE engine is free to choose, also the power electronics. Only the hybrid-electrical hardware is a fixed standard. Yes, most certainly there are analogies between high performance PHEV for future road cars and the concept. We could imagine to use the technology of the endurance motor racing in the new M5... as a matter of speaking.

7. In integrating M Gmbh and Motorsport, the organisational aspects were priority. When will we see the impact in the products?

bla-bla-bla on sentiment and that also youngsters apparently love Motorsport. The first car that was conceived in this new structure was the M4 GT3. It is also the first car since DTM-M3 E30 coming from Garching and partially made by the same people!! Next year the M4 GT4 will come and in 2023 we will start in Daytona with the LMDh car.

8. You said three years back that a unique M-car would not necessarly had to be a sportscar. Based on our info wrt the PHEV, we would bet on a crossover. Is this also the first unique M car since the M1? (strange question isn't it?)

To be clear, there will be a unique M car.

9. When possible a sportscar? (what, previous question he was convinced it was a crossover??)

We stand for sports and high performance on the public road. We also want to endulge customers that are seeking for luxury. With the M8 we partially succeeded in this mission. Nevertheless there is still one segment we're not represented in! I can't reveal more than what I just said.

10. You also said that you would provide a series of emotional loaded cars. With the M2CS and M5CS we'd say you delivered on that promise. Can you confirm the M4CSL here and now? It's not that they remained unnoticed during their prototype trips...

The car is clearly no longer a secret. In contrast with the two cars you mention, we don't need to provide for 4 passengers. This car will be clearly lighter and more focussed than a CS.

11. So we can expect a weight reduction of >100kgs?

Yes, you can.

12. ...and it is clearly not electrified. How do you prepare the M engines for Euro7?

We have a lot of trics in our sleeves, no worries. We can still continue with the current generation until 2030, both for circuit as for public road purposes.

(what he is forgetting is that the pressure is raising very fast on CO², and there is no tric left in his sleeve for that I'am afraid).

14. What are those trics?

I can't go into detail. We perfectionised the fuel burning process in order to avoid we had to install weight increasing periphals requiring more space. It doesn't really matter how strict the final norm becomes, we know that we will comply with it! This is also true for our V8 engines.

15. No downsizing needed towards electrified 4-cyl?

No, we don't look into that when it concerns high performance solutions.

16. How long we still have to wait for a BEV M, 15,20, 25 or even more years?

We don't want to answer such a hypothetical question, we want and need to remain commercial relevant. It's no doubt the future, but when is now a question left unanswered. Also because the ICE still has a very long and important role to play. I can tell you this: as from 2025 we'll have all kinds of motors: ICE, PHEV and BEV and they will provide a solution for everybodies needs and wants.

17. But, a BEV touring car is not yet planned?

We're not going to impose principles of which we're the only ones that believe they are right. Today, we don't see the willingness nor the need of the teams to realise such a car. I don't want to abuse motorsport to artificially provoke enthousiasm! It's impossible to provoke for enthousiam anyway. There is already evidence of this in motorsport.

18. So, not even a brand cup with BEV? (this guy is working on my nerves)


No, it doesn't make any sense when you train your future pilot potential with mastering cars that are not comparable with the behaviour they can expect in the superior classes. bla-bla-bla

19. You also have personal motorsport ambitions?

For me it was a clear objective to enroll for the 24h of the Nürburgring and participate. This was revealing to me and I learned how motorsport actually works and also about top motorsport I learned some lessons, what it takes to develop a real controllable sportscar like the M4 GT3. bla-bla-bla.

[cwhands]

Couldn't get the touring approved for the US though.

Damnit Markus!

[vj123]

Looks like ICE will also be an option in M vehicles post 2025 including PHEV and BEV (as expected).

It would be interesting to see their platform specific approach as i dont expect all M platforms to have 3 different powertrains options.

[roastbeef]

He didn't like the feedback on the grille on Instagram. lol

[Jockey]

[img]https://i.gifer.com/8BoX.gif[/img]

[therealm3]

What was the negative experience you'd rather not had?

Nothing shocking really. When you are this intense with social media like we are, you'll get confronted with recurrent nagging comments. That's something you should be able to deal with.

Hahahah. Little butt sore that people don't like your baby and couldn't block them or kick them?

[MadBimmeRad]

From what I read in between the lines, M4CSL may end up being a track only car (given her says it is not make for Backseat passengers

Am I right in that understanding?

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

From what I read in between the lines, M4CSL may end up being a track only car (given her says it is not make for Backseat passengers

Am I right in that understanding?

GT3s and GT4s are track only cars from M Motorsports

The ethos of the CSL has always been that it is a road legal car optimised for the track

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

From what I read in between the lines, M4CSL may end up being a track only car (given her says it is not make for Backseat passengers

Am I right in that understanding?

The new CSL is the old GTS...

[Pinkoboe]

Does anyone know what is being discussed in question #8?

“To be clear, there will be a unique M car.” Is this a new model or just a funky google translation error?

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by Pinkoboe

Does anyone know what is being discussed in question #8?

“To be clear, there will be a unique M car.” Is this a new model or just a funky google translation error?

It's not google translated. It says what it says: there will be a M only car like the M1 was in the past.

[TractionControlDelete]

Excited to see that they're not going the 4 cylinder turbo route! Maybe investing in synthetic fuels to preserve I6 and V8 motors?

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by vj123

Looks like ICE will also be an option in M vehicles post 2025 including PHEV and BEV (as expected).

It would be interesting to see their platform specific approach as i dont expect all M platforms to have 3 different powertrains options.

Glasgow:

In the latest news updates I hear that in Belgium (say Europe) only zero emission vehicles will be allowed as from 2027. For 2nd hand cars, this rule starts as from 2029. This implies that customers buying TODAY probably best choose a BEV when they would ever want to sell their vehicle in the future. The economical value of a non BEV will drop to zero very fast the coming few years.

When this law is amended the coming weeks or months, I wonder how fast the investments in ICE/PHEV will be cut.

[JJ 911SC]

Very superstitious guy, no Q 13

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

Very superstitious guy, no Q 13

Indeed, I skipped it! This is a sign!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

GT3s and GT4s are track only cars from M Motorsports
The ethos of the CSL has always been that it is a road legal car optimised for the track

The E46 M3 CSL had normal backseats (no roll cage), featured the SMGII gearbox (no 6MT) and weighed 1385 kg. That was 110 kg less than the 1495 kg E46 M3 featuring a manual gearbox, or almost an 8% diet (see here).

Shaving almost 8% off the G82 M4 6MT while equipping a ZF8 automatic gearbox, will require lots of creativity, invasive surgery and more dedicated R&D. Backseats removal saves weight, roll cage added adds some weight again.

BMW made 1383 cars, charged a 50% markup and did not call this E46 M3 extraordinaire "limited edition" (as the BMW marketing milking folks nowadays for sure would do, likely also throwing a "1 of xxxx" plaque into the mix).

BMW M walked the extra mile for the E46 M3 CSL athlete (see for example here, here and here).

"What is the E46 M3 CSL?
The E46 M3 CSL is a special variation of the standard E46 M3 coupe that features numerous lightweight components, as well as a myriad of drivetrain, chassis and cosmetic enhancements. The "CSL" moniker denotes "Coupe Sport Lightweight" and was first used on the 3.0 CSL homologation special in 1971. A total of 1,383 E46 M3 CSLs were produced to European specification between June and December of 2003 in both left-hand drive (841 built) and right-hand drive (542 built) configuration. (This figure excludes an additional series of at least a dozen pre-production M3 CSL prototypes built between September of 2002 and February of 2003.)
The E46 M3 CSL is most notably distinguished from the standard E46 M3 by its various lightweight components. The largest of these is the carbon fiber-reinforced plastic (GFP) roof panel, which weighs over 13 pounds less than its conventional steel counterpart. The front bumper support is also constructed of GFP, as is the uniquely-shaped front airdam with its single intake on the left-hand side. At the rear, the lower rear valance panel is made of GFP, while the reshaped trunk lid is made of SMC (sheet molding compound). Fiberglass-reinforced plastic is used for the rear bumper supports and this material is also "sandwiched" with thermoplastics and foam to create the trunk floor and rear bulkhead. As a final weight-saving measure, the rear window glass is extra thin. BMW claimed that the M3 CSL weighed 3,054 pounds, or roughly 10 percent less than the normal model.
The E46 M3 CSL is powered by a modified version of the usual 3,246-cc S54 inline-six that lacks a conventional mass airflow meter. Instead, the air draw is determined directly by the DME for quicker calculations. There is also a more efficient air intake system made largely of GFP and routed through larger manifolds to the circular opening in the front airdam. Further changes include modified camshafts and exhaust valves, plus a lightweight exhaust system constructed of thinner steel. The CSL-spec engine is rated at 360 hp (DIN) at 7,900 rpm and 273 lb-ft of torque at 4,300 rpm.
The M3 CSL is equipped exclusively with the SMG II transmission featuring a special launch control mode that automatically shifts at the optimum point for maximum acceleration. This is mated to the standard E46 M3 final drive and M Differential Lock. Finally, the DSC system of the M3 CSL can be switched to M Track Mode via the steering wheel-mounted button. This raises the threshold at which the system intervenes to allow for some degree of wheelspin.
The suspension of the M3 CSL is based closely upon that of the standard E46 M3. However, it does incorporate a number of changes, including front coil springs that are shorter by one winding, different spring and shock rates (for both rebound and compression), plus larger anti-roll bars in the front (30.8 mm) and rear (22.5 mm). In addition, the normal aluminum front control arms (shared with the standard E46 M3) are joined by aluminum rear suspension links with stiffer ball bushings. Rounding out the chassis upgrades are a quicker steering rack (overall ratio: 14.5:1) and larger 13.7-inch cross-drilled front brake rotors. Finally, the M3 CSL rides on lightweight cross-spoke alloy wheels measuring 8.5x19-inches in front (0.5 inches wider than the normal M3) and 9.5x19-inches in the rear. These are shod with special Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires sized 235/35ZR19 (front) and 265/30ZR19 (rear). (Conventional tires mounted to the 19-inch forged M Double Spoke II wheels from the standard E46 M3 were also offered as a no-cost alternative.)
In addition to the aforementioned lightweight body components and unique wheels, the exterior of the E46 M3 CSL is further distinguished by a special "CSL" insert in place of the usual "M3" model designation within the decorative intake grilles on either fender. In addition, there is an "M3 CSL" badge on the trunk lid. Exterior colors were limited to Silver Grey metallic (A08) and Black Sapphire metallic (475).
Though the interior of the M3 CSL retains the standard E46 M3 dashboard (with Titan Shadow trim), instruments and general controls, it differs significantly in most other areas. The minimal door panels are constructed of lightweight GFP and lack the usual side airbags. Likewise, the center console surrounding the parking brake is also made of GFP and contains the power mirror switch that normally resides on the driver-side door. The deeply-bolstered front seats (similar to those found in the M3 GTR) have GFP backings and are upholstered in a combination of Anthracite "Reflex" cloth and Amaretta (synthetic suede). The two special individually-shaped rear seats are also covered in the same materials. The Alcantara-wrapped M three-spoke steering wheel contains only the M Track Mode switch in place of the usual audio and cruise control buttons. The parking brake handle is similarly fashioned from Alcantara and both door sills contain unique trim plates.
In keeping with the lightweight, driver-focused manner of the M3 CSL, standard comforts were limited to just power windows, an auto-dimming rearview mirror, central locking and the on-board computer. The short list of extra-cost options included only an anti-theft alarm, green-tinted windshield stripe or climate comfort windshield, velour floor mats, bi-Xenon headlights with headlight washers (washers excluded on UK-spec examples), Park Distance Control, rain sensor with automatic headlight control, automatic climate control and various cassette/CD/mini-disc radios. There were also three no-cost options available: deletion of the rear "M3 CSL" badge, a "smokers package" that included an ashtray and cigarette lighter, plus the fitment of the forged M Double Spoke II alloy wheels with conventional tires from the standard M3 in place of the CSL's cross-spoke alloy wheels with Cup tires. One final factory option was the removal of the standard 155-mph top speed limiter."
(source: here)

Back in 2003: E46 M3 base price (6MT) + 56% = E46 M3 CSL base price (SMGII) (€85K).

Base price E46 M3 - E46 M3 Cabrio - E46 M3 CSL (September 2003):
(source: here)



Base price E46 M3 CSL + options list (May 2003):
(source: here - standard features: see pages 4-5)





On a final note: for a word of caution about unrealistic weight reduction expectations, read what BMW M engineer Jürgen Schwenker replied in a Spring 2011 interview regarding the 1M (see here or here):

"Q: Would it not have been possible to reduce the weight of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé to closer to 1,400 kilos instead of the 1,570 kilos achieved? After all, a number of body parts had to be redeveloped anyway. What would have been the additional cost for the customer if the 1,400 kg target had been reached ?
A: It is unrealistic to expect a weight reduction of 170 kilos on an existing basic vehicle. The M3 CSL and M3 GTS show where the reasonable limits lie. It would be necessary to develop a completely new car from scratch – which would, of course, also mean a completely different price scale. [...]"

[thaalrasha]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Glasgow:

In the latest news updates I hear that in Belgium (say Europe) only zero emission vehicles will be allowed as from 2027. For 2nd hand cars, this rule starts as from 2029. This implies that customers buying TODAY probably best choose a BEV when they would ever want to sell their vehicle in the future. The economical value of a non BEV will drop to zero very fast the coming few years.

When this law is amended the coming weeks or months, I wonder how fast the investments in ICE/PHEV will be cut.

All the political bullshit can shift 5 times again between now and then. BEV is no viable for many, and it's a powerfull chinese lobby on battery production, I see the future electric but not with BEV unless we have sorted out recycling and many other nasty side of this. When everyone plugs their 30Amp charger we will see either the grid blows or how everyone will have slow charging speed.
BEV advocates conveniently avoid the recycling / mining questions and also electricity grid, hell they already think there will be blackouts in winter that's even before any massive electric car deployments.

Also from latest summit they are at last find out that Methane is much worse than Co2 (between 5 times and 80 times depending who you ask) and cars represent only a fragment of Co2 emissions, when people actually tackles what matter most, annoying people with private cars should no longer be a priority... I'd be curious to see what methane emission is coming from stop gaps natural gas / oil / biomass plants when they need to operate very inefficiently (outside their designed efficient ranges) just to makes up for the wind and solar down times all this to charge up all the "green" BEVs they trying to push so hard.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by cwhands

Couldn't get the touring approved for the US though.

Damnit Markus!

Brother come on. How many Americans would really want a station wagon Brady Bunch mobile sports car??

Originally Posted by vj123

Looks like ICE will also be an option in M vehicles post 2025 including PHEV and BEV (as expected).

It would be interesting to see their platform specific approach as i dont expect all M platforms to have 3 different powertrains options.

To me that was the most important part of the interview. It looks like BMW unlike Mercedes has some balls and is not backing down on ice. Maybe cooler heads will prevail in the next few years and we can stop this nonsense towards going all EV.

Originally Posted by roastbeef

He didn't like the feedback on the grille on Instagram. lol

No man. He didn’t give a crap. I would’ve thought that was pretty obvious by now. But some of you guys are still hanging on.

Originally Posted by therealm3

What was the negative experience you'd rather not had?

Nothing shocking really. When you are this intense with social media like we are, you'll get confronted with recurrent nagging comments. That's something you should be able to deal with.

Hahahah. Little butt sore that people don't like your baby and couldn't block them or kick them?

Nope. That’s not what I got from it at all. As I said to the previous comment it’s very clear to me and should be to you by now that BMW doesn’t care that you hate it. It’s the highest selling M3 they’ve ever had and will continue to be so. So it appears someone made the right choice there.

[Tallest]

BMW is widely seen in investment community as laggard in EV game. This is clear as they are very confused and have very limited offering and losing a lot to Daimler and VW.

I sampled some EVs that drove very well. And - they will only get better, infrastructure will only get better. BMW needs to push M into EV future and commit to it properly. THey cannot, and this is gonna hurt them.

IX and i4 is not it... the design is an issue. EVs need to look sleek and beautiful as their platform allows it.. and Ix and I4 is not pretty. :S

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

GT3s and GT4s are track only cars from M Motorsports

The ethos of the CSL has always been that it is a road legal car optimised for the track

I should have been more careful with my wording. As you rightly point out, GT3/4 is purely for the track and not the road.

The F82 GTS is a track-focused road car but for my money, I would hate to drive it on the road because of many reasons but mostly, I don't want to carry 4Lt of distilled water for every time I go for a drive around town. Therefore, to me at least, it'll be more like a track car with road capabilities than the other way.

The E46 CSL, on the other hand, was a much nicer less uptight setup, imho, than the F82 GTS. I had hoped the G82 CSL would be more like the E46 CSL

I think my reasoning to be accurate because I see E46CSLs on the road but have never seen a GTS being driven around.

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

The new CSL is the old GTS...

Thank you, I think they announced this last year of I recall correctly.

Originally Posted by KoenG

It's not google translated. It says what it says: there will be a M only car like the M1 was in the past.

Question 9 was answered like: With the M8 we partially succeeded in this mission. Nevertheless there is still one segment we're not represented in! I can't reveal more than what I just said.


Could it be the M9? A super car or a hyper car is what is missing from BMW. Are they trying to take on Lamborghini?

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Tallest

BMW is widely seen in investment community as laggard in EV game. This is clear as they are very confused and have very limited offering and losing a lot to Daimler and VW.

I sampled some EVs that drove very well. And - they will only get better, infrastructure will only get better. BMW needs to push M into EV future and commit to it properly. THey cannot, and this is gonna hurt them.

IX and i4 is not it... the design is an issue. EVs need to look sleek and beautiful as their platform allows it.. and Ix and I4 is not pretty. :S

As we get forced into EV by people who are convinced we are all dead if we don’t I am going to be thoroughly amused as I watch all these things run out of juice and pull off to the side of the road littering the highways. Also can you imagine these charging stations of which you had better get busy building them absolutely everywhere there is a gas station now but now instead of fueling up in less than five minutes there will be lines of people waiting to hook their cars up for at least 15 minutes to an hour. So you have some problems. You’ve got a lot of work to do. You have to build hundreds of thousands of charging stations all over Europe , North America and the other continents that are pushing this down the citizens throats. What kind of carbon footprint will that be? That’s a lot of building and construction. Then you’re going to have to hire gas using tow trucks to collect these vehicles as they run out of juice all over the place. This is going to be a total mess if it’s allowed to continue the way it is now.

Now if you would just allow capitalism to move it forward naturally then people can make choices whether they want these vehicles or not. Obviously you like them so you’ll buy one and I think that’s awesome. There are many others like you. If the market naturally starts to change to EV vehicles than the infrastructure will change to accommodate that. Let capitalism work. If this is forced upon us like it is right now it will be a nightmare and a calamity.

Lastly reading your comment you make it sound as if the whole world obviously wants these things and BMW and other slow auto manufactures changing over are making a mistake. I assure you sir you are in the minority on this but you do happen to have most governments on your side especially the European Union. So you feel confident that this is wanted by most people when it’s not. I realize a lot of the people on your side don’t care about that and are fully on board with forcing it on the people of the earth but I just don’t want you to be mistaken thinking you are in the majority. I would argue you’re not even close to the majority.

Meanwhile I’m proud of BMW for sticking with some ice options especially being in Europe with that type of government pressure on their throats. Good for you guys BMW. Stick to it.

[JT88]

Originally Posted by Pinkoboe

Does anyone know what is being discussed in question #8?

“To be clear, there will be a unique M car.” Is this a new model or just a funky google translation error?

Looks like he's talking about the XM