[Wilson335i]

My 09 335 was parked last year before winter however I would go out to start it often drive it down the road and make sure the battery wasn't draining. One day it wouldn't start maybe a few clicks and it was clear it was the battery the dash even said battery has low volts. I replace the battery but while doing so I ripped a wire that connected to the back of the bst right off(see pictures) I didn't notice it because it was dark and after replacing the battery I had the same exact no crank no start maybe a click or two. Jump to current day (today) i had the battery on charger reading 13.4 Volts before re installing and after installing I can hear 1-2 clicks faintly from starter and the fuel pump humming but still no crank all electronics work besides that. The car is in a horrible spot to be parked and probably can't be towed.
-Does any one know if this wire that broke could cause this no crank no start?
The wire is the black wire that broke off the red positive battery terminal.
-Dealership doesn't know what I'm referring to when calling.

Here's what I've tried to no avail
I've replaced the battery in non comfort access fob
Replaced car battery
Replaced Starter relay fuse that powers starter
Tried smacking my starter and starting it
Unplugging ibs

Any information will help I'm leaning towards a starter motor which I can replace my self but before spending the money maybe someone else has had similar issues. Thank you

[ctuna]

If the trigger line that goes to the starter goes high and battery that
is attached to the starter is good the starter should turn over.
(assuming the engine is not siezed)
There are lot's of DIY's on changing everything in this car on Ytube
if you search.

https://www.google.com/search?client...TkPIPhaOBkA823

Get out the voltmeter

If the BST has fired or gets damaged it cuts voltage to the motor.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.cGU&cad=rja

[Wilson335i]

Thanks for the reply ctuna would you happen to know what that black wire is and if it does anything to the BST if not connected? If that is considered damage to BST that would explain the no crank no start but how can I be sure

[ctuna]

this link
BST being triggered is also sometimes associated with seat belt error's

In order to get block and electrical diagrams you need to have Ista D.
It's a good idea to get BMW Standard Tools and Ista D going if you work
on your car.
Requires a Laptop win 7 to 11 , K/D can cable (bimmergeeks recommended)
And the time it takes to set it up.

There are Ytube Diy's on how to troubleshoot a BST problem.

GET A VOLTMETER if you haven't got one and learn to use it.

[Wilson335i]

Originally Posted by ctuna

this link
BST being triggered is also sometimes associated with seat belt error's

In order to get block and electrical diagrams you need to have Ista D.
It's a good idea to get BMW Standard Tools and Ista D going if you work
on your car.
Requires a Laptop win 7 to 11 , K/D can cable (bimmergeeks recommended)
And the time it takes to set it up.

There are Ytube Diy's on how to troubleshoot a BST problem.

GET A VOLTMETER if you haven't got one and learn to use it.

I have everything you said k dcan connecter laptop with inpa instead of the ista you said but I can get ista. I have a volt meter and know how to use it on battery but not how to check that wire or if I'm getting voltage to starter. If my BST was bad and I order a replacement the wire that is broken doesn't come with the new BST if I knew what that wire was and it's functions I'd be able to pin point if this wire is causing issues or if it's the starter it's self. I've watched the videos on the BST and can't seem to find the information I'm looking for besides how to change it out.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Wilson335i

I have everything you said k dcan connecter laptop with inpa instead of the ista you said but I can get ista. I have a volt meter and know how to use it on battery but not how to check that wire or if I'm getting voltage to starter...

Since you have INPA (and Multimeter), Check voltage at Jumpstart Terminal under Red Cap as explained in other thread. THEN:

1) Use INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 Error Memory All Modules; to read fault codes in ALL ~ 20 Modules in your vehicle; SAVE ScreenPrints of the two Screens, and attach them here.

1a) See attached pdf: "INPA Tutorial Quickstart" for example screens and HOW to save ScreenPrints to attach here.

2) Use INPA > CAS (Body | Car Access System) > F5 Status > F2 Analog Status > F1 Diagnose Terminals; Screens will look like those attached to NEXT Post.

3) Save ScreenPrint with Ignition ON (press START button WITHOUT pressing Brake/Clutch).

4) Save ScreenPrint of SAME Screen at moment the START Button is pressed with Brake/Clutch pedal pressed. Terminal 50 (KL50) should have voltage and/or Amps bar graph when that happens.

Let us know the Last-7 Characters of your VIN and particularly if you have AT or MT. There are other screens to determine if P/N signal, Brake Signal, Clutch Signal are being received by CAS, and other details. Just post those screens for now, and we can suggest Next Steps.
George

[gbalthrop]

Attached are ScreenPrints of INPA > CAS > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 CAS Terminal Diagnosis, as described in prior post.

1) First ScreenPrint is with Ignition ON. KL30L & KL30E are voltages from two CAS Fuses. KLR is Radio/Brake Lights Active.
KL15 is Ignition Relay activation. KL30G is Accessory Relay Activation. Both are on JB Fuse Panel (KL15 soldered to board).

2) Second ScreenPrint is with START pressed AND Brake/Clutch pressed. KL50 is Starter Solenoid Activation by CAS.
George

[Wilson335i]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Since you have INPA (and Multimeter), Check voltage at Jumpstart Terminal under Red Cap as explained in other thread. THEN:

1) Use INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 Error Memory All Modules; to read fault codes in ALL ~ 20 Modules in your vehicle; SAVE ScreenPrints of the two Screens, and attach them here.

1a) See attached pdf: "INPA Tutorial Quickstart" for example screens and HOW to save ScreenPrints to attach here.

2) Use INPA > CAS (Body | Car Access System) > F5 Status > F2 Analog Status > F1 Diagnose Terminals; Screens will look like those attached to NEXT Post.

3) Save ScreenPrint with Ignition ON (press START button WITHOUT pressing Brake/Clutch).

4) Save ScreenPrint of SAME Screen at moment the START Button is pressed with Brake/Clutch pedal pressed. Terminal 50 (KL50) should have voltage and/or Amps bar graph when that happens.

Let us know the Last-7 Characters of your VIN and particularly if you have AT or MT. There are other screens to determine if P/N signal, Brake Signal, Clutch Signal are being received by CAS, and other details. Just post those screens for now, and we can suggest Next Steps.
George

Alright I'm going to try all this now thank you George I will be back with the screen prints shortly

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Attached are ScreenPrints of INPA > CAS > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 CAS Terminal Diagnosis, as described in prior post.

1) First ScreenPrint is with Ignition ON. KL30L & KL30E are voltages from two CAS Fuses. KLR is Radio/Brake Lights Active.
KL15 is Ignition Relay activation. KL30G is Accessory Relay Activation. Both are on JB Fuse Panel (KL15 soldered to board).

2) Second ScreenPrint is with START pressed AND Brake/Clutch pressed. KL50 is Starter Solenoid Activation by CAS.
George

Hey George, How do you know what those "KL" numbers actually mean? Are you just dynamically changing events, switches and pedals in the car and then watching the INPA screen respond?

Or, do you just know what these cryptic KL numbers actually designate? And if so how?

Thanks!

[Wilson335i]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Attached are ScreenPrints of INPA > CAS > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 CAS Terminal Diagnosis, as described in prior post.

1) First ScreenPrint is with Ignition ON. KL30L & KL30E are voltages from two CAS Fuses. KLR is Radio/Brake Lights Active.
KL15 is Ignition Relay activation. KL30G is Accessory Relay Activation. Both are on JB Fuse Panel (KL15 soldered to board).

2) Second ScreenPrint is with START pressed AND Brake/Clutch pressed. KL50 is Starter Solenoid Activation by CAS.
George

Hey sorry took awhile to get out and get the pictures but here they are

[Wilson335i]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Attached are ScreenPrints of INPA > CAS > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 CAS Terminal Diagnosis, as described in prior post.

1) First ScreenPrint is with Ignition ON. KL30L & KL30E are voltages from two CAS Fuses. KLR is Radio/Brake Lights Active.
KL15 is Ignition Relay activation. KL30G is Accessory Relay Activation. Both are on JB Fuse Panel (KL15 soldered to board).

2) Second ScreenPrint is with START pressed AND Brake/Clutch pressed. KL50 is Starter Solenoid Activation by CAS.
George

I've also installed new starter and having same symptoms no crank no start no different after installing new Bosch starter I've used multi meter to check the grounds all of the positive grounds are reading 12 plus volts constantly in the engine bay including the one with red cap I've also tried jump starting the car to no avail but I was getting higher volts from the battery reading 14 plus volts when jumper cables are on. I have not tried reading volts from the jumpstart terminals with key on yet.

[Wilson335i]

Originally Posted by Wilson335i

Alright I'm going to try all this now thank you George I will be back with the screen prints shortly

Module codes

[Wilson335i]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Since you have INPA (and Multimeter), Check voltage at Jumpstart Terminal under Red Cap as explained in other thread. THEN:

1) Use INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 Error Memory All Modules; to read fault codes in ALL ~ 20 Modules in your vehicle; SAVE ScreenPrints of the two Screens, and attach them here.

1a) See attached pdf: "INPA Tutorial Quickstart" for example screens and HOW to save ScreenPrints to attach here.

2) Use INPA > CAS (Body | Car Access System) > F5 Status > F2 Analog Status > F1 Diagnose Terminals; Screens will look like those attached to NEXT Post.

3) Save ScreenPrint with Ignition ON (press START button WITHOUT pressing Brake/Clutch).

4) Save ScreenPrint of SAME Screen at moment the START Button is pressed with Brake/Clutch pedal pressed. Terminal 50 (KL50) should have voltage and/or Amps bar graph when that happens.

Let us know the Last-7 Characters of your VIN and particularly if you have AT or MT. There are other screens to determine if P/N signal, Brake Signal, Clutch Signal are being received by CAS, and other details. Just post those screens for now, and we can suggest Next Steps.
George

-

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Wilson335i

Alright I'm going to try all this now thank you George I will be back with the screen prints shortly

Originally Posted by Wilson335i

Hey sorry took awhile to get out and get the pictures but here they are

Originally Posted by Wilson335i

I've also installed new starter and having same symptoms no crank no start no different after installing new Bosch starter I've used multi meter to check the grounds all of the positive grounds are reading 12 plus volts constantly in the engine bay including the one with red cap I've also tried jump starting the car to no avail but I was getting higher volts from the battery reading 14 plus volts when jumper cables are on. I have not tried reading volts from the jumpstart terminals with key on yet.

Welcome back!!
I just do this stuff to try to "stay sharp", but at my age, I forget most of what I knew two weeks ago.

Sorry you wasted time/money on new starter. LOTS of codes there, but FIRST we should concentrate on CAS Module Codes and Live Data. I have NOT looked-up definitions of all the codes in modules other than CAS & DME yet, but the CAS is what must send voltage (KL50) to the Starter Solenoid to get Starter to Crank Engine, and that is NOT happening, even though you have 12+V at the Jumpstart B+ Terminal under the hood.

Good ScreenPrints of the CAS Terminal Status! Several things jump out from those ScreenPrints, compared to my properly-functioning Start Circuit in ScreenPrints attached to Post #7 in this thread:
1) In your first ScreenPrint of CAS Terminal Diagnosis attached to Post #10, the KL15, KL30G and KLR voltages are fine, with Ignition ON, but START NOT pressed with foot on brake.
2) HOWEVER, notice that KL50 Amps is ".81A". That suggests a short internal to the CAS Module, as there should NOT be any current flow from KL50 until START & Brake pressed at SAME time. Your KL50 Voltage is also .13V instead of "0.00V".
3) In your 2nd ScreenPrint of CAS Terminal Diagnosis, when START is pressed with Brake pressed, KL50 voltage is 11.70V while KL30L voltage is 11.83V (that is the Load Fuse voltage).
4) There is virtually NO Voltage drop, which should be ~ 1.5V to 2.0V; that means all voltage readings should be in ~ 10.0V range when START & Brake are pressed; that means your Starter is NOT drawing any current -- the Starter Solenoid is NOT being activated despite an apparent KL50 start signal (voltage sent to Starter Solenoid).
5) KL50L Amps should be ~ 10A when START is pressed. NOTE that my KL50L Current (Amps) in the 2nd attachment to post #7 is "0". That is an issue with that particular version of INPA, as another version of INPA clearly shows nearly 10A KL50L Current when START is pressed.

I will provide specific steps in post tomorrow:
A) How to "Hotwire" Starter Solenoid using "Jumper" 12V+ supply to a connector in the E-box that runs directly to the Starter Solenoid, so you don't have to remove the intake manifold. IF your intake manifold is still removed from Starter Replacement, please let me know.
B) How to measure for voltage from the CAS Module (KL50 Voltage Signal) when START button is pressed, at same connector in E-box under hood.
C) How to use INPA to quickly test for Brake and P/N signals as received by the CAS. Those Signals MUST be received to send KL50 Signal to Starter Solenoid.

This may seem like an insurmountable problem, but we can probably at least get the engine started so you can move the car. You appear to have either:
1) a wiring fault in the KL50 line from the CAS to the Starter Solenoid (which passes through two connectors in the E-box), OR
2) an internal fault in the CAS Module, which hopefully can be repaired at reasonable cost by a Module Repair Shop.

Part II to come in 12 hours or less.
George

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

... I will provide specific steps in post tomorrow:
A) How to "Hotwire" Starter Solenoid using "Jumper" 12V+ supply to a connector in the E-box that runs directly
to the Starter Solenoid, so you don't have to remove the intake manifold. IF your intake manifold is still removed
from Starter Replacement, please let me know.
B) How to measure for voltage from the CAS Module (KL50 Voltage Signal) when START button is pressed, at
same connector in E-box under hood.
C) How to use INPA to quickly test for Brake and P/N signals as received by the CAS. Those Signals MUST be
received to send KL50 Signal to Starter Solenoid...

Attached are ISTA ScreenPrints showing "S_50" Starter Signal line from CAS Module to Starter (M6510a) Solenoid, with
Location diagrams and Connector Views of the two Intermediate Connectors of that line, X6011 & X60551/X60531 in E-box.
I would assume that the entry "X60531" in the wiring diagram should be X60551, or vice versa for the X60551 in location.

A) You can "Hotwire" the Starter Solenoid:
MAKE SURE PARK SELECTED & HANDBRAKE FIRMLY SET. You are defeating the "Safety Switches" related to FootBrake application
& P/N Gear Selection when you hotwire the Solenoid. Open the E-box, identify Connector X6011. There should be a Black wire
(medium-large thickness, 2.5mm-squared cross section) at Pin #1 of X6011. That is the KL50 Signal wire from CAS Module.
Disconnect X6011 and identify the Pin/Socket the Black wire from CAS was connected to. THAT is the line to the Starter.
"TAP" (very brief application of Voltage) that Pin/Socket with 12V+ from the B+ Jumpstart Terminal (under Red Cap), to
see if the starter solenoid clicks. If it does, and if PARK SELECTED, apply voltage there (carefully) and see if Starter
turns engine. If it does NOT, check back for other suggestions.

B) With Helper to Press START Button with foot on Brake, test for 12V+ in reference to Chassis Ground, at Black Wire,
X6011/1, when START Button is pressed. Let us know what you find in that test. If there is NOT 12V+, there is an issue
with the wiring between CAS Module and X6011/1, or the CAS Module itself.

C) IF there was NOT 12V+ at the Black wire, X6011/1 when START pressed with foot on brake, use INPA as follows:
INPA > CAS (Body | Car Access System) > F5 Status > F1 Digital > F2 Terminal Control
That is the "Menu Selection Sequence" to connect to the CAS Module and read Live Data related to Brake & P/N
Signals which must be received by the CAS Module BEFORE it will send KL50 Start Signal voltage to Starter Solenoid.
The two circles on top row MUST be filled/black when "P" selected & Brake pressed, with Ignition ON.

If any questions following the above, don't be afraid to experiment with INPA menu selections in F5 Status.
Please let us know what you find,
George

[mattwval]

I was doing a pull in my 335i when a whooshing noise like a boost leak started but then my car said engine malfunction and proceeded to slowly die. When I coasted off the road I tried to start it but all that there is is a whirling noise from the starter. The car also threw camshaft sensor codes for inlet and exhaust. As well as firing 1-6 cylinders. Does anyone know what this is or has had this same issue?

[Supahone]

That plug for me was associated with the air bag and seat belt sensors in my 328xi. My car would start with it disconnected though. When I reattached it the dash lights all cleared.

[Franklinfatulo]

i had a similar issue when i bought my car, had a brand new battery, one day i turned it on to let idle for a bit since i didnt use it as much, turned it off worked on it for bit here and there then try to turn it on again it didnt cranked at all, it was a ground strap, one i believe under driver side chassis to engine, good luck.

[rick_flying_machine]

Hi gbalthrop

I have a similar issue on my 135i/N55. I replaced the starter and HPFP this winter as I was having long cranks and I was happy to see that everything was resolved as it fired right up afterwards (not sure if the issue was the HPFP or starter, but the starter is fairly cheap and being in the area, it seemed like a good idea)

I used the car a few times with no problem and then after a longer trip, the car wouldn't start and I had to have the car towed. I thought the new starter was maybe bad, but after putting back the old one, I'm still left with the same issue.

I checked the clutch and INPA confirm all is ok when pressed/depressed. The KL50L shows however an amp overload. As I've eliminated the starter as being the issue, what next steps would you take? I've attached the inpa screenshots without and with the start sequence engaged. thanks!

[rick_flying_machine]

For those who might have similar readings in INPA and symptoms, the culprit was the B+ positive cable that runs to the starter and alternator. It was completely corroded at one of the junctions. Just replaced it and it starts fine now!

[Marc_28i]

I have the exact same issue on my n54 128i (yes it is swapped) it is intermittent no crank no start but I doubt it is the b+ cable due to the fact that :
-0.41 amp consistent draw at kl50 when the ignition is on even if I don't press the start button
-sometimes when it decides that it doesn't want to start I pull CAS live data the current drawn at start on the terminal 50 overshoot the required current and I have a low voltage which doesn't trigger the starter relay.
-but if I hotwire the starter from the ecu box at the starter relay pin the car starts which eliminates the probability of a B+ cable issue because it supplies power to the starter.
-i have been facing this issue for a long time but it got worse now because it frequently decides not to start especially on a hot summer day.
-what I have already tried:
-hot wire from the ecu box (works)
-hot wire from the cas directly black wire (works)
-pulled the cas 3 out checked for any apparent short on the board no damages noticable
My car has been torn to pieces trying to find the culprit and I am not driving it due to this issue although I miss this rocket with full rear m3 subframe swap.
Has anyone faced a similar issue I am trying to solve it before pulling the trigger on a new cas 3 as I can't find any reasonable explanation to this issue.

[NZE90]

Originally Posted by Marc_28i

I have the exact same issue on my n54 128i (yes it is swapped) it is intermittent no crank no start but I doubt it is the b+ cable due to the fact that :
-0.41 amp consistent draw at kl50 when the ignition is on even if I don't press the start button
-sometimes when it decides that it doesn't want to start I pull CAS live data the current drawn at start on the terminal 50 overshoot the required current and I have a low voltage which doesn't trigger the starter relay.
-but if I hotwire the starter from the ecu box at the starter relay pin the car starts which eliminates the probability of a B+ cable issue because it supplies power to the starter.
-i have been facing this issue for a long time but it got worse now because it frequently decides not to start especially on a hot summer day.
-what I have already tried:
-hot wire from the ecu box (works)
-hot wire from the cas directly black wire (works)
-pulled the cas 3 out checked for any apparent short on the board no damages noticable
My car has been torn to pieces trying to find the culprit and I am not driving it due to this issue although I miss this rocket with full rear m3 subframe swap.
Has anyone faced a similar issue I am trying to solve it before pulling the trigger on a new cas 3 as I can't find any reasonable explanation to this issue.

My money is on the CAS internal starter relay, which is not replaceable.