[DB_Cooper]

As a fan of Jay Emm videos, I came across this one on EVs. Interesting watch.

Touches on how multi factorial the EV debate really is and how blanket adoption of EVs isn't the right way to go about integrating the tech as a primary mode of transportation.

Instead, a more nuanced approach is probably the best way to go.

[tturedraider]

Just watched a little so far, but I can tell I’m going to like this video.

I think this current, crazy push is just stupid. In a few years California is going to realize there’s no way they’re going to meet this goal the crazy people have set.

One big question I have yet to hear addressed in any way is how street parkers are going to be handled. I live in Chicago and I think there are at least as many street parkers as there are garage parkers. How are all of those folks going to charge an electric car. I live in a condominium with a parking garage with 180 parking spaces. The cost to install a charging station at each parking space will be enormous.

[chad86tsi]

Too much logic and reason in the video, so clearly it produced by ICE-loving planet-haters stuck in the past.

/sarcasm

[DanG]

He doesn't talk about all the pollution from mining lithium for the batteries. One big hole in the EV argument.

[M4Tejas]

Teslas catching on fire in Florida during the drying process. EV not ready for "prime time"......expect a rollback after the current regime is booted.

[chassis]

EV backing is from car companies, not governments.

EVs = higher profit per vehicle for car companies. The auto industry is investing tens of billions, today, to transition to majority EV production.

Debate over saving the earth, tax dollars or charging infrastructure are distractions. Watch where the auto industry is putting its capital investment.

[Murf the Surf]

Excellent video, balanced and reasonable. I like the fact that he states some very important and what should be obvious points. Diversity is clearly a key message here. Well worth the 44 minutes to watch.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Just watched a little so far, but I can tell I’m going to like this video.

I think this current, crazy push is just stupid. In a few years California is going to realize there’s no way they’re going to meet this goal the crazy people have set.

One big question I have yet to hear addressed in any way is how street parkers are going to be handled. I live in Chicago and I think there are at least as many street parkers as there are garage parkers. How are all of those folks going to charge an electric car. I live in a condominium with a parking garage with 180 parking spaces. The cost to install a charging station at each parking space will be enormous.

You obviously haven’t noticed the push to remove cars completely in cities. Problem solved.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by c1pher

You obviously haven’t noticed the push to remove cars completely in cities. Problem solved.

In Chicago?

[DB_Cooper]

https://www.globalresearch.ca/we-don...c-cars/5794721

[10"]

everyone seems to forget that MOST developments that humans have made in the past 200 years were driven by people trying to make money and EVs are no different. The next generation of post-oil businesspeople trying to strike the $$$ boom within it.

has little to do with what we need and more to do with how rich people can make more money.

No wonder humanity is so wrecked—- zombie sheep at the sight of $$$.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Just watched a little so far, but I can tell I’m going to like this video.

I think this current, crazy push is just stupid. In a few years California is going to realize there’s no way they’re going to meet this goal the crazy people have set.

One big question I have yet to hear addressed in any way is how street parkers are going to be handled. I live in Chicago and I think there are at least as many street parkers as there are garage parkers. How are all of those folks going to charge an electric car. I live in a condominium with a parking garage with 180 parking spaces. The cost to install a charging station at each parking space will be enormous.

I am always deeply confused by concerns like yours. Which overplay the negatives and ignore the rapid technical improvements and positives. Delaying the shift to EVs isn't really an option and that's even ignoring the realities of climate change.

China is the largest EV market in the world and the largest car market as well. Ignoring the shift to EVs would leave us only to buy the leftover technology that isn't being developed for the largest markets. Since the Chinese market is growing the automotive market will chase that market and not a mature market like the US. Business 101...

Same reason you didn't see the auto industry drop the EV shift when Trump rolled back to EV shift Obama put in place and the industry lobbied him for. It didn't matter what the US was doing since the global markets were growth is have moved...

The challenges of charging in cities, battery lifespan, and recyclability are all being actively worked on now that there is guaranteed demand to ensure a profit for the companies who crack the puzzles. For instance, there are EVs out to market now that can charge in 30 minutes from 0 - 100%. That means you could realistically have charging stations that could charge an urban EV within 10-15 minutes to enough charge to last a week or more. Today.

These charging stations can be, and are being built, at shopping centers and other areas. Meaning in the future people may skip gas stations, but instead charge while doing things they need to drive to anyway.

The world changes because those with vision force the rest of us to eventually see their vision. Similar to how no one could have seen the world we have now with smartphones and their power when PDAs came out in the early 90s or even when Windows Mobile smartphones came out in the early 2000s. Yet today they've completely rewritten telecommunications and all of their shortcomings are distant memories as they've been solved. So much so that Apple smartphone CPUs outperform the most powerful Intel chips in desktop computers today...

EVs will reduce our dependence on foreign oil increasing national security...

Really wild how our own Government's 9/11 commission investigation confirmed a link between Saudi and the 9/11 hijackers, but we levied no punishment on Saudi Arabia due to how dependent we are on their oil...

Don't fight the tide...

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I am always deeply confused by concerns like yours. Which overplay the negatives

The challenges of charging in cities, battery lifespan, and recyclability are all being actively worked on now

Is it not overplaying the positives when you are relying on something as-yet uninvited to support a decision to act now?

I mean optimism is nice and all, but is isn't it more or less as rational or irrational as pessimism?

It concerns me we are making important decisions based on on hopes and dreams.

[NickyC]

I have no idea what is going to happen with EVs as a whole, but it sure did get quiet from all the self driving car proponents from just a couple years ago.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by NickyC

I have no idea what is going to happen with EVs as a whole, but it sure did get quiet from all the self driving car proponents from just a couple years ago.

It will be here any day now, they have a guy working the problem right now...

4 years later, I can't hardly wait...

The future is going to be great. When it gets here is the problem.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Is it not overplaying the positives when you are relying on something as-yet uninvited to support a decision to act now?

I mean optimism is nice and all, but is isn't it more or less as rational or irrational as pessimism?

It concerns me we are making important decisions based on on hopes and dreams.

No it isn’t the same.

Pessimism is what prevents you from taking action — action that leads to improvements.

People overly concerned about the drawbacks of EVs based on the state of things today are focused on not moving things forward out of fear that the problems are so large as to be unsolvable. We know very well from our technological history that large problems can be solved and the current reality isn’t guaranteed to be the same reality tomorrow.

The government putting laws in place to force business to move forward and start solving problems is a step on the optimistic path. If the goals prove to actually be too high they can be adjusted down or removed altogether. In the meantime, business and industry has motivation to solve the problems.

We should seriously be pushing for the path of optimism for all the reasons I noted earlier. Us burying our collective heads in the sand and pretending the world isn’t moving away from ICE is only going to hurt us in the long run.

Another analogy I can give you that is very similar to the shift to EVs here. TVs. The LCD was invented before the CRT in the 1800s. But was too technically challenging and expensive to manufacture so CRTs dominated TVs for over 60 years. When LCD TVs first came to market people detested them as a bad deal that wouldn’t take off. They draw less colors than CRTs, have backlights that wear out, don’t downscale well, are expensive, etc etc etc. Now you never see CRTs around unless you’re watching vintage content on Netflix… The first cars were EVs and cars look to be following a similar path to TVs… Where the better tech does win in the end. Just took a long time for that to happen.

EVs have challenges that are actively needing to be sorted out, but pretending ICE has a future is Luddite thinking.

[CoreyWebster]

Originally Posted by DanG

He doesn't talk about all the pollution from mining lithium for the batteries. One big hole in the EV argument.

The mining of lithium and cobalt is a huge issue that EV lovers tend to overlook.
I like to ask EV owners how many African children were killed mining their Tesla batteries. They love that. Also Gasoline burns cleaner than coal. They don't know what to make of that one.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by CoreyWebster

The mining of lithium and cobalt is a huge issue that EV lovers tend to overlook.
I like to ask EV owners how many African children were killed mining their Tesla batteries. They love that. Also Gasoline burns cleaner than coal. They don't know what to make of that one.

I could ask you the inverse. How many American lives have been lost securing our access to oil?

Obviously, any lives lost needlessly is a problem. Africans shouldn’t be dying for access to Lithium and American service members shouldn’t be dying so we can protect oil access.

But we should discuss lives honestly. Not pretend to care about them when you’re trying to get a rise out of someone.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Onesie

Source?

Source for what? American lives lost securing access to oil?

Why else have we expended countless American dollars and lives in the Middle East?

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/t...-oil-strategy/

https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/olj...ia05_duj01.pdf

[DB_Cooper]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

No it isn't the same.

Pessimism is what prevents you from taking action — action that leads to improvements.

People overly concerned about the drawbacks of EVs based on the state of things today are focused on not moving things forward out of fear that the problems are so large as to be unsolvable. We know very well from our technological history that large problems can be solved and the current reality isn't guaranteed to be the same reality tomorrow.

The government putting laws in place to force business to move forward and start solving problems is a step on the optimistic path. If the goals prove to actually be too high they can be adjusted down or removed altogether. In the meantime, business and industry has motivation to solve the problems.

We should seriously be pushing for the path of optimism for all the reasons I noted earlier. Us burying our collective heads in the sand and pretending the world isn't moving away from ICE is only going to hurt us in the long run.

Another analogy I can give you that is very similar to the shift to EVs here. TVs. The LCD was invented before the CRT in the 1800s. But was too technically challenging and expensive to manufacture so CRTs dominated TVs for over 60 years. When LCD TVs first came to market people detested them as a bad deal that wouldn't take off. They draw less colors than CRTs, have backlights that wear out, don't downscale well, are expensive, etc etc etc. Now you never see CRTs around unless you're watching vintage content on Netflix… The first cars were EVs and cars look to be following a similar path to TVs… Where the better tech does win in the end. Just took a long time for that to happen.

EVs have challenges that are actively needing to be sorted out, but pretending ICE has a future is Luddite thinking.

Wait, the government is taking steps to solve our problems? Lol…Talk about optimism.

Let's focus all our efforts on EVs and ignore the water crisis, lead poisoning in flint, healthcare, education, voting equality, getting involved in Ukraine, student debt, etc., etc, etc. oh and let's also ignore all the environmental and societal damage done to many third world nations by mining for raw materials used for battery production and a greater dependence on China for battery manufacturing.

This is all ass backwards.

[10"]

Originally Posted by DB_Cooper

Wait, the government is taking steps to solve our problems? Lol…Talk about optimism.

Let's focus all our efforts on EVs and ignore the water crisis, lead poisoning in flint, healthcare, education, voting equality, getting involved in Ukraine, student debt, etc. oh and let's also ignore all the environmental and societal damage done to many third world nations by mining for raw materials used for battery production and a greater dependence on China for battery manufacturing.

This is all ass backwards.

Exactly—-what logical apex is recycling is the rhetoric thrown around by businesspeople who WANT us all to switch to electric so they can switch their bank accounts to $$$. He bought that rhetoric and lapped it up.

We have far larger issues at hand, including world hunger, unsustainable environmental standards such as way too much livestock farming, destruction of forests and greenery, as well as a money-based lust for warfare and wealth control.

Making cars more environmentally friendly?? Sure why not. But it's hardly the biggest issue we have it comes way down the line and if it comes to that we should rethink transportation altogether like the video states

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by DB_Cooper

Wait, the government is taking steps to solve our problems? Lol…Talk about optimism.

Let's focus all our efforts on EVs and ignore the water crisis, lead poisoning in flint, healthcare, education, voting equality, getting involved in Ukraine, student debt, etc., etc, etc. oh and let's also ignore all the environmental and societal damage done to many third world nations by mining for raw materials used for battery production and a greater dependence on China for battery manufacturing.

This is all ass backwards.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time…

The shift to EVs, including US sourcing rules in the latest tax incentives, are aimed at blunting our dependency on Chinese manufacturing. The US still has a sizable automotive manufacturing sector.

If we ignore the EV shift, as I said earlier, then we’ll lose that sector to China. Guaranteed. As China is the largest auto market now both in size and growth. Car manufacturers no longer focus on the US. That’s business 101.

Originally Posted by 10"

Exactly—-what logical apex is recycling is the rhetoric thrown around by businesspeople who WANT us all to switch to electric so they can switch their bank accounts to $$$. He bought that rhetoric and lapped it up.

We have far larger issues at hand, including world hunger, unsustainable environmental standards such as way too much livestock farming, destruction of forests and greenery, as well as a money-based lust for warfare and wealth control.

Making cars more environmentally friendly?? Sure why not. But it's hardly the biggest issue we have it comes way down the line and if it comes to that we should rethink transportation altogether like the video states

See above.

The “we have more important issues” logical fallacy.