[Debtm3]

For some reason my YouTube videos have all been about how great the type r is ….. and now I’m intrigued, is it worth going to test drive? Does anyone here own one or ever has?

[clydefrog]

I probably would have bought a CTR if the dealers weren't insane and charging no less than $10k over MSRP for one... it's actually what pushed me to the M2 because I was thinking if I'm already going to spend ~$60k range for a car might as well spend a little more and get something objectively faster and more luxury like the M2.

I will say as someone that didn't opt for the carbon buckets (I guess I have sport couches lol), I did feel like the seats in the CTR were really nice and sitting in the car felt a bit more 'special' like a limited edition. But with that 'specialness' comes the mark up.... so I just got an MSRP M2

No regrets!

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

I probably would have bought a CTR if the dealers weren't insane and charging no less than $10k over MSRP for one... it's actually what pushed me to the M2 because I was thinking if I'm already going to spend ~$60k range for a car might as well spend a little more and get something objectively faster and more luxury like the M2.

I will say as someone that didn't opt for the carbon buckets (I guess I have sport couches lol), I did feel like the seats in the CTR were really nice and sitting in the car felt a bit more 'special' like a limited edition. But with that 'specialness' comes the mark up.... so I just got an MSRP M2

No regrets!

same exact boat. i had a lock on a GRC Circuit that the dealer tried to screw me on (after waiting over a year for it) so i walked. i've owned a number of golden era honda products over the years but was sick to my stomach over the idea of getting ADM'd into the high 50 low 60k range for a civic.

i am very, very happy with my G87 overall. i feel it is a special car that makes me want to drive it all the time, even to nowhere in particular which is frankly the standard i use to measure my cars. would i be just as happy in a CTR? probably. i drove an ITS and really liked it, great ride handling balance, decent interior, real knobs and buttons, excellent gearbox and steering feel. but at the end of the day just couldnt justify ~65k for it, over 10k of which was ADM or dealer add on accessories . got my M2 at MSRP, in my mind the car makes sense under 70k, makes less sense as you approach 80k and beyond.

[Viggen47]

There a few existing cross shopping threads where folks have weighed in on the CTR, so defintely worth a search.

With that said, I got an allocation for a G87 back in March. I had the carbon pack spec’d and after getting pushed (a 5th time) to week 40 back in July I finally threw in the towel, flew a few states over and picked up an FL5. I didn’t have another fun car to hold me over and I really didn’t want to to wait until the spring to get the G87 (I’m in the north east and was planning on storing the car for the winter). I still have a deposit down with my dealer and plan on picking up the MY25 G87 assuming all the new color rumors are true.

I absolutely love the CTR, and it scratched the itch I was feeling after driving a boring AT vehicle for the past several years. The transmission is phenomenal, and it’s an incredibly engaging car. Though it’s not for everyone, it feels raw, it vibrates a lot, has tons of road noise, etc. As someone else mentioned, the seats are incredible and eventhough it’s “just a civic” there is sense of occasion every time I step into it. All that being said, the M2 is in a completely different league when it comes to speed, interior quality, etc. which is why I plan on eventually moving on to the G87.

My suggestion would be to test drive them both. I doubt you will have any luck getting a dealer to let you test drive an FL5, but I’m sure you can find an FK8 that will give you a good enough idea. Good luck!

[JABCAT]

Personally, I've have never looked at a Civic, not even in times when I needed just a boring daily driver & didn't have much $ to my name. I find it interesting that one would even compare a Civic to a BMW, and an M car at that. The performance is pretty pedestrian, and the cost for a Civic is just ridiculous.

I mean, look at this attempted hype job by Car & Driver, "the Civic Type-R bolted to 60 mph in 4.9 seconds and eclipsed the quarter-mile marker in 13.5 seconds at 106 mph." Seriously, both these times are snooze-worthy.

This isn't about being snobby either, one of my most fun cars was a $15k Fiat 500. Yeah a hell of a lot slower than the Civic, but also only 1/4 of the price.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Personally, I've have never looked at a Civic, not even in times when I needed just a boring daily driver & didn't have much $ to my name. I find it interesting that one would even compare a Civic to a BMW, and an M car at that. The performance is pretty pedestrian, and the cost for a Civic is just ridiculous.

I mean, look at this attempted hype job by Car & Driver, "the Civic Type-R bolted to 60 mph in 4.9 seconds and eclipsed the quarter-mile marker in 13.5 seconds at 106 mph." Seriously, both these times are snooze-worthy.

This isn't about being snobby either, one of my most fun cars was a $15k Fiat 500. Yeah a hell of a lot slower than the Civic, but also only 1/4 of the price.

This

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

I fully agree with JABCAT Why are these two drastically different cars even being considered & mentioned in the same sentence... ? How can a highly overpriced FWD Civic be even remotely comparable to a base model RWD G87 M2... ?

[albertM3]

I own both and have to admit they did a wanderful job on the Type R. The review of Chris Harris was very accurate. The seats are amazing specially being a fan of the BMW M seats myself. The manual transmission has a great feel to it. The car reminds me of the original NSX. The connection with the road and suspension is excellent. Like the old NXS is about the same power which I believe is more than enough for a front wheel drive car. The M2 I find also playful and challenging with the rear wheel drive. This S58 is so fast, impressive. That being said, had to put the PSI mid pipe. I have a C8 and that aspirated V8 entices other senses with that growl.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by albertM3

I own both and have to admit they did a wanderful job on the Type R. The review of Chris Harris was very accurate. The seats are amazing specially being a fan of the BMW M seats myself. The manual transmission has a great feel to it. The car reminds me of the original NSX. The connection with the road and suspension is excellent. Like the old NXS is about the same power which I believe is more than enough for a front wheel drive car. The M2 I find also playful and challenging with the rear wheel drive. This S58 is so fast, impressive. That being said, had to put the PSI mid pipe. I have a C8 and that aspirated V8 entices other senses with that growl.

No matter how well built the top shelf Civic is, at the end of the day it's still a FWD platform. So it doesn't matter if we're talking about a new Integra Type-S or Civic Type-R, it all gets put into the same FWD category. Great road feel, yes. Great build quality, okay. But tru dynamic capabilities on a track powering out of a corner... You get the drift. Still have no clue on why these machines are being cross shopped. I'd certainly want to sit down & go over a few of the simple basics if someone I knew thought these were in the same league. You can't compare apples to oranges.

[keonigt]

I cross shopped with the g87, ctr, and integra type s. I ended up choosing the quicker and more luxurious car. G87 is definitely stronger in all categories imo.

[two_three_two]

CTR and G87 are both awesome road car experiences that are priced within 10-12% of each other with ADMs and people who care about driving experience will cross shop anything in the same price class. this isnt complicated, especially if you want a stick. they are wildly different in execution but if you value fun on a road surface both will do the trick. CTR can be pushed further on public roads since it will run at 75% of the acceleration pace. BMW has more luxury. if you dont believe me go drive one

[M2siast]

Already a long discussion on it, and we have a member here with both cars and he answers some questions directly:

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2041894

[clydefrog]

Here is another thread with an owner of both CTR vs G87 comparison and a nice video to boot: https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2022549

To all the people 'OMG why would you ever consider a civic as a cross shop??'

Not everyone is trying or comfortable spending $70k-$80k (post tax depending on where you live) on a car. If you're looking for a sporty/enthusiast manual option and this is the TOP of your price range, but would prefer to spend lower, what are your options?

BRZ/GR86, Miata, WRX, Elantra N, Mustang, Camaro (soon gone), GR Corolla, Nissan Z(unobtanium) Civic Type R (Still rare with high ADM), Acura Type S (ADM baked in), Supra (rare in manual + ADM), G87 M2.

I tried to put that list in order of approximate cost to get into a manual but didn't try too hard so don't go crazy. Anything else 'comparable' to an M2 in both performance and luxury like a 4/5-Blackwing or a Porsche or Lotus is going to be higher.

Not everyone is cross shopping just on features and performance and luxury. I was cross shopping on driving experience and on my financial ability.

I wouldn't say I stretched to get an M2 but I definitely would have preferred to spend $50k on a CTR instead of the $70k+ I did (high tax state, then PPF.. etc.. omg it just keeps coming), but given I think they will stop offering an ICE only CTR in 2025-2026 I just felt like I would never see one at MSRP.

Like I said, no regrets but people being mind boggled that cross shopping doesn't always happen in the same price bracket is ridiculous. There are multiple threads asking about this for a reason.

[Carefree]

When the sun sets at day’s end, the Civic is still a Honda.

[MineralGreyMetallic]

My first new car was a Civic DX (roll up windows!) and I modded that thing into a little go-cart, so I don't hate. I'm always happy to see enthusiast cars because I can remember many times in the past 20 years when there weren't great options across the board.

Who exactly is a $50k+ Civic for?

What market?

[TheLegend]

Originally Posted by MineralGreyMetallic

My first new car was a Civic DX (roll up windows!) and I modded that thing into a little go-cart, so I don't hate. I'm always happy to see enthusiast cars because I can remember many times in the past 20 years when there weren't great options across the board.

Who exactly is a $50k+ Civic for?

What market?

Inflation has really raised prices across the board. I mean an M2 close to 70k for a decently speced version, M3 hitting 80k-100k. I don't even want to talk about Porsche.

Personally I'm considering a Civic Type R for an engaging driving experience and practicality over the G87 M2 and G80 M3. The speed of the s58 means nothing to me on the streets and I'd rather have a better shifter and a more connected driving experience. New Bmw M cars are too refined and the manual just isn't good.

I do believe there is just way too much hype around this car. I couldn't test drive the new FL5 but did drive the FK8 and to be honest it was good but did not blow me away as the reviews seem to suggest. I think it's well priced at 45-46k but I sure as hell am not willing to pay a markup for it.

[c1pher]

No.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

Here is another thread with an owner of both CTR vs G87 comparison and a nice video to boot: https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2022549

To all the people 'OMG why would you ever consider a civic as a cross shop??'

Not everyone is trying or comfortable spending $70k-$80k (post tax depending on where you live) on a car. If you're looking for a sporty/enthusiast manual option and this is the TOP of your price range, but would prefer to spend lower, what are your options?

BRZ/GR86, Miata, WRX, Elantra N, Mustang, Camaro (soon gone), GR Corolla, Nissan Z(unobtanium) Civic Type R (Still rare with high ADM), Acura Type S (ADM baked in), Supra (rare in manual + ADM), G87 M2.

I tried to put that list in order of approximate cost to get into a manual but didn't try too hard so don't go crazy. Anything else 'comparable' to an M2 in both performance and luxury like a 4/5-Blackwing or a Porsche or Lotus is going to be higher.

Not everyone is cross shopping just on features and performance and luxury. I was cross shopping on driving experience and on my financial ability.

I wouldn't say I stretched to get an M2 but I definitely would have preferred to spend $50k on a CTR instead of the $70k+ I did (high tax state, then PPF.. etc.. omg it just keeps coming), but given I think they will stop offering an ICE only CTR in 2025-2026 I just felt like I would never see one at MSRP.

Like I said, no regrets but people being mind boggled that cross shopping doesn't always happen in the same price bracket is ridiculous. There are multiple threads asking about this for a reason.

I guess if you're shopping brand new, but you could get a garage queen C6 Z06 or C7 Grand Sport, Camaro ZL1 (if you needed back seats) if you wanted a manual & "driving experience".

[IAmSpeed]

If I were shopping for a BMW like you, I wouldn't even consider the CTR. People have already mentioned the differences in specs, so I won't repeat that. Another thing I dislike about owning a Japanese sports car is just looking at the community in general—tons of high school kids (not even sure if they went to college) who drive like assholes on the roads most of the time. We would have a much better and more mature conversation with a BMW owner. Trust me, coming from a GR86 and Spura.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by IAmSpeed

If I were shopping for a BMW like you, I wouldn't even consider the CTR. People have already mentioned the differences in specs, so I won't repeat that. Another thing I dislike about owning a Japanese sports car is just looking at the community in general—tons of high school kids (not even sure if they went to college) who drive like assholes on the roads most of the time. We would have a much better and more mature conversation with a BMW owner. Trust me, coming from a GR86.

Funny you should mention the Japanese crowd. Yesterday on Arizona 101 a young kid pulled up on me in one of those WRX sti matchbox toy cars driving like an a**hole looking for action. It lasted about 10 seconds.

[NewToM]

Originally Posted by Carefree

Funny you should mention the Japanese crowd. Yesterday on Arizona 101 a young kid pulled up on me in one of those WRX sti matchbox toy cars driving like an a**hole looking for action. It lasted about 10 seconds.

His car was THAT much faster than the M2?!

[izzyM2]

I would have gotten a type r if not for its crazy pricing. But the G87 is just getting better and better in my eyes and the interior with the stick and buckets is just sooo nice.