[suspect]

Is this normal? Stage 1 98 RON. All the cylinders are getting corrections after shift.

2x WOT runs 3rd to 4th gear:
https://datazap.me/u/suspect/stg198w...5&zoom=198-586

[suspect]

The more I read about these timing corrections the more I see someone say they are normal and equally someone saying they are bad. I can't tell what the cause could be other than the STFT are too much at -11%. I am using 99 RON (93-94 oct). Is this causing huge accelerated wear on my engine?

[suspect]

Can anyone chime in please? I cant tell if this is normal/okay or not.

[335i54n]

not normal imo but not super high corrections either but all over the place. something to downtune and look into

[suspect]

Originally Posted by 335i54n

not normal imo but not super high corrections either but all over the place. something to downtune and look into

can you think of what to look into? The injectors seem ok, the boost target is met, HPFP looks ok too. The AFRs are in low 12s at high RPM which is how it should be I think. The only thing that stands out to me is STFT but they are close together, both the O2 sensor cant go bad as the same time. IATs are not crazy high although I think these corrections only appear once the engine coolant is at operating temperature. The only other thing could be fuel but I don't have ethanol available.

[335i54n]

so many possible minor issues that could contribute imo, not an expert. return to stock and relog and go from there imo. hows the compression, coils, walnut, injector (index 12 and yr), pcv and plug coloring etc

[suspect]

Originally Posted by 335i54n

so many possible minor issues that could contribute imo, not an expert. return to stock and relog and go from there imo. hows the compression, coils, walnut, injector (index 12 and yr), pcv and plug coloring etc

Compression is 160-175 psi across all cylinders. Coils and plugs are max 10k miles old. Two index 12s the rest index 1. Never changed the PCV might be worth doing but not sure how it would cause timing retards? Need to pull the plugs to see colouring. I have a set of 1 step colder plugs ready to go but reading around this forums it seems unnecessary.

Havnt got stock log again yet but heres downtune to 91oct/95 RON stg1 and shift from 3rd to 4th wot:
https://datazap.me/u/suspect/log-170...22&zoom=38-262

Timing pull on cyl 4 and 6 as soon as the WGDC jumps by 18%. cyl6 has a new index 12. Got rattling wastegates on decel, could that be it?

[335i54n]

how old are those index 12, (replace those index 1 imo), you need at least 3 known good (new, less than 5yr old imo index 12) to swap bank to bank for diagnosis and plug color inspections.

[suspect]

Originally Posted by 335i54n

how old are those index 12, (replace those index 1 imo), you need at least 3 known good (new, less than 5yr old imo index 12) to swap bank to bank for diagnosis and plug color inspections.

The index 12 are less than a year old. No wet spark plugs. Wouldn’t bad injectors show up as lazy AFRs or misfire?

[Shoooter_j]

How fast are you shifting? Curious if you feel the infamous shift bog

[suspect]

Originally Posted by Shoooter_j

How fast are you shifting? Curious if you feel the infamous shift bog

A ~500ms shift at a little over 6500 RPM then I definitely feel the shift bog. Its like the throttle is nearly closed and nothing happens for a little bit after a shift. Linear throttle map has made this worse. The rpm continues to nearly 7000 RPM as I let go off the accelerator, disengage and engage the clutch. At this time the 2048 torque limiter also kicks in. The log in the first post did not have a shift bog though.

heres a log with shift bog
https://datazap.me/u/suspect/shiftbo...3-22-28&solo=2

[Shoooter_j]

Hmm…like 335i54n noted, hard to pinpoint.

Definitely pull plugs to see more detail - I just did yesterday as noted in my linked post below and hoping there’s some correlation with what I’m seeing re: timing corrections on cyl 1. Same boat as you running 2 index 12’s and the rest index 1:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...ostcount=24072

Also, what tune are you running? If MHD, might be worth turning on the shift bog fix to see if it helps. I’m still running an old school cobb with PTF tune targeting 21psi peak - its a solid tune but seeing timing corrections on 2-3 cyl at any given time (consistent on cyl 1 though) above 4.5-5k rpm, so hoping fresh coils and plugs will help.

Lastly, when did you last do a walnut blast?

[335i54n]

^dont look the best, kinda all over

https://powersport.net.in/spark-plug-when-to-change/

unless youre on newer index 12s imo it pointless trying to pinpoint Minor timing corrections.

[suspect]

Originally Posted by Shoooter_j

Hmm…like 335i54n noted, hard to pinpoint.

Definitely pull plugs to see more detail - I just did yesterday as noted in my linked post below and hoping there’s some correlation with what I’m seeing re: timing corrections on cyl 1. Same boat as you running 2 index 12’s and the rest index 1:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...ostcount=24072

Also, what tune are you running? If MHD, might be worth turning on the shift bog fix to see if it helps. I’m still running an old school cobb with PTF tune targeting 21psi peak - its a solid tune but seeing timing corrections on 2-3 cyl at any given time (consistent on cyl 1 though) above 4.5-5k rpm, so hoping fresh coils and plugs will help.

Lastly, when did you last do a walnut blast?

Have you got any of your logs? Is cylinder 1 on the left (last picture)? The darkest one? Running rich should prevent knock which is what triggers timing corrections.

I have a MHD stage 1+ tune with FMIC. In two minds about trying the shift bog, I think it removes the factory rev limiter which I am not sure is okay or not. I need to pull my plugs. Might go one step colder.

Walnut blast was done like 6k miles ago.

I have probably looked at like a 100 logs now and except a few logs, the timing corrections are present on almost all of them.

[suspect]

Originally Posted by 335i54n

^dont look the best, kinda all over

https://powersport.net.in/spark-plug-when-to-change/

unless youre on newer index 12s imo it pointless trying to pinpoint Minor timing corrections.

I will check the spark plugs first. Index 12s are also pulling timing for me. Do you get timing corrections too?

[Shoooter_j]

Originally Posted by suspect

Have you got any of your logs? Is cylinder 1 on the left (last picture)? The darkest one? Running rich should prevent knock which is what triggers timing corrections.

I have a MHD stage 1+ tune with FMIC. In two minds about trying the shift bog, I think it removes the factory rev limiter which I am not sure is okay or not. I need to pull my plugs. Might go one step colder.

Walnut blast was done like 6k miles ago.

I have probably looked at like a 100 logs now and except a few logs, the timing corrections are present on almost all of them.

Yeah, cyl 1 is on the left and the darkest one. Good point - makes sense on timing corrections = running rich.

Here's one of the cleaner recent logs I have from Sept prior to the spark plug & coil change, but just after I got a walnut blast and reset adaptations - you'll see the timing corrections on cyl 1, and later on cyl 2:

https://datazap.me/u/shoooterj/sept-...og=0&data=3-15

I had to do an ECU adaptation reset via Cobb since I was getting throttle adaptation codes right after the walnut blast, although it was pulling like a freight train up top - from a Virtual Dyno plot, it looked like an NA car and moved the power band to the top and was around a 30whp gain, but lost power in the midrange. Throttle sensitivity even getting in first gear was sloppy however, and I accidentally stalled a couple of times thinking it was user error.

Will be interesting to see what your plugs look like when you get a chance to take a look.

[Shoooter_j]

Originally Posted by 335i54n

^dont look the best, kinda all over

https://powersport.net.in/spark-plug-when-to-change/

unless youre on newer index 12s imo it pointless trying to pinpoint Minor timing corrections.

Agreed its not optimal looking and as suspect noted, timing corrections = rich conditions.

Just dug up some other posts / threads of interest below too that might be helpful/related for this thread:

Possible causes of plugs looking all over the place (these plugs were in place prior to a needed walnut blast):
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...11&postcount=8

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...2&postcount=12

What causes timing corrections:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1001936

How much timing correction is too much:
https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792980

I also realize this could be a neverending game of chasing something that isn't really a big issue too, esp. noting the comments in the last thread above but worth a try if it doesn’t necessarily need to go to the extremes of new injectors 🙂

[suspect]

Originally Posted by Shoooter_j

Yeah, cyl 1 is on the left and the darkest one. Good point - makes sense on timing corrections = running rich.

Here's one of the cleaner recent logs I have from Sept prior to the spark plug & coil change, but just after I got a walnut blast and reset adaptations - you'll see the timing corrections on cyl 1, and later on cyl 2:

https://datazap.me/u/shoooterj/sept-...og=0&data=3-15

I had to do an ECU adaptation reset via Cobb since I was getting throttle adaptation codes right after the walnut blast, although it was pulling like a freight train up top - from a Virtual Dyno plot, it looked like an NA car and moved the power band to the top and was around a 30whp gain, but lost power in the midrange. Throttle sensitivity even getting in first gear was sloppy however, and I accidentally stalled a couple of times thinking it was user error.

Will be interesting to see what your plugs look like when you get a chance to take a look.

I think you misunderstood me. I think lean mixture/hotter burn is more likely to cause knocking/timing corrections than rich unless the mixture is really rich like <10. I could be wrong though. Have you changed your plugs yet? What are the timing corrections like now? Log STFT too.

I reset lambda regulation and lambda sensor adaptation and it didnt make much difference to mine.

Your log only has bank 1 AFR, are you on N55? If this was N54 I think you are on the richer side at higher RPM (11.91 AFR) but it should be high 11 low 12 so its good within range. When my injector was going bad I had no hard starts or wet plugs but one plug would turn black.

If timing corrections have not gone away, pull your new cylinder 1 plug out and see if its black again, if it is then swap plug and injector from another cylinder and see what happens. It is weird if it turns out to be your brand new injector but they have a warranty. Did you code the injectors in?

[Shoooter_j]

Originally Posted by suspect

I think you misunderstood me. I think lean mixture/hotter burn is more likely to cause knocking/timing corrections than rich unless the mixture is really rich like <10. I could be wrong though. Have you changed your plugs yet? What are the timing corrections like now? Log STFT too.

I reset lambda regulation and lambda sensor adaptation and it didnt make much difference to mine.

Your log only has bank 1 AFR, are you on N55? If this was N54 I think you are on the richer side at higher RPM (11.91 AFR) but it should be high 11 low 12 so its good within range. When my injector was going bad I had no hard starts or wet plugs but one plug would turn black.

If timing corrections have not gone away, pull your new cylinder 1 plug out and see if its black again, if it is then swap plug and injector from another cylinder and see what happens. It is weird if it turns out to be your brand new injector but they have a warranty. Did you code the injectors in?

Ah thanks for the clarification, makes more sense. I’m N54 and only logged bank 1 due to a limit of parameters with Cobb. Will see what I can take out instead to include bank 2 and STFT.

Haven’t even started the car since swapping coils and plugs the other day. Will suspect (no pun intended) its best to do a log when its warmer, no winter gas / snow on the ground so will likely wait to log again come spring.

Good suggestion on troubleshooting process. Hoping that cyl 1’s darker plug isn’t injector related - its got an index 12 from 2018 in there for the last 21k miles, which replaced an index 1 that leaked, leading to bad misfiring. Funny you mention coding - definitely got coded originally and after the plug/coil swap the other day, I went into INPA to code it again to be sure (but of course nothing changed since the values were already correct). Lets see what some miles and a spring log will bring, will circle back here when completed!

[Shoooter_j]

Originally Posted by suspect

I think you misunderstood me. I think lean mixture/hotter burn is more likely to cause knocking/timing corrections than rich unless the mixture is really rich like <10. I could be wrong though. Have you changed your plugs yet? What are the timing corrections like now? Log STFT too.

I reset lambda regulation and lambda sensor adaptation and it didnt make much difference to mine.

Your log only has bank 1 AFR, are you on N55? If this was N54 I think you are on the richer side at higher RPM (11.91 AFR) but it should be high 11 low 12 so its good within range. When my injector was going bad I had no hard starts or wet plugs but one plug would turn black.

If timing corrections have not gone away, pull your new cylinder 1 plug out and see if its black again, if it is then swap plug and injector from another cylinder and see what happens. It is weird if it turns out to be your brand new injector but they have a warranty. Did you code the injectors in?

Managed to get some warm-ish weather - runs were done on winters as well. Unfortunately the timing corrections persist on cyl1, with a couple of runs having timing corrections across all 6 cyl at some points. I've included the cleanest 2 runs below with updated parameters:

https://datazap.me/u/shoooterj/log-1708656346

https://datazap.me/u/shoooterj/log-1708656604

The good news is that with fresh coils/plugs, low end partial throttle response is much better/stronger. Lambda and STFT also both look OK, but tell me otherwise. Car also pulls like a freight train overall and at this point, especially with the PTF writeup "oldie but a goodie" I found below, I'm inclined to just send it and enjoy the car as long as we're code-free

https://blog.protuningfreaks.com/201...eliable-power/

[suspect]

Originally Posted by Shoooter_j

Managed to get some warm-ish weather - runs were done on winters as well. Unfortunately the timing corrections persist on cyl1, with a couple of runs having timing corrections across all 6 cyl at some points. I've included the cleanest 2 runs below with updated parameters:

https://datazap.me/u/shoooterj/log-1708656346

https://datazap.me/u/shoooterj/log-1708656604

The good news is that with fresh coils/plugs, low end partial throttle response is much better/stronger. Lambda and STFT also both look OK, but tell me otherwise. Car also pulls like a freight train overall and at this point, especially with the PTF writeup "oldie but a goodie" I found below, I'm inclined to just send it and enjoy the car as long as we're code-free

https://blog.protuningfreaks.com/201...eliable-power/

Your AFR look ok to me and your stft are similar to mine. In the warmer weather you will get more timing corrections. Your cylinder 1 timing is correcting again and again and probably would be the only concern. Otherwise I agree with you. Almost every log I have seen including N55, B58 there are timing corrections and its rare to see none. The car runs fine so maybe its normal-ish.