[DB_Cooper]

BMW Says Manual Gearboxes Are Finished, Even For M Cars

BMW board member Frank Weber says sales figures mean it no longer makes sense to develop manual transmissions

February 14, 2024 at 07:54

BMW Says Manual Gearboxes Are Finished, Even For M Cars
by Brad Anderson

Frank Weber, a key member of BMW’s board, says the writing is on the wall for the brand’s manual transmissions and that includes its enthusiast-oriented M models.

Automotive executives have been saying the days of the stick shift are numbered for years and while there are still quite a few options on the market, the numbers are dwindling. BMW has been one of the last holdouts in the luxury segment, still offering buyers of the M2, M3, M4, and more recently, the Z4 M40i, the opportunity to row their own gears, while both Mercedes and Audi have killed off the manual.

However, during a recent interview with Italian publication Quattroruote, Frank Weber said “it’s over” for the brand’s manual models, noting that the sales figures for them don’t justify the development costs.

BMW Says Manual Gearboxes Are Finished, Even For M Cars

Weber did not specify an exact date for when BMW will axe all of its manual options but it could be soon with him adding, “If you want a manual M, you need to buy it now.”

“They are fun products, but let’s be honest, the volumes are getting smaller and smaller, and so it doesn’t make sense to develop them anymore,” he said.

Interestingly, Weber’s statements come just a few weeks after BMW unveiled the 2025 Z4 M40i with the option of a six-speed manual and confirmed that it will be sold in North America. This marks the first time the G29 Z4 has been sold with a manual in the U.S. and comes two years after the closely related Toyota Supra was made available with a six-speed.

Demand for BMW’s manuals proved strong in the U.S. last year, accounting for roughly 20% of all M3 and M4s sold as well as over half of M2 sales. Despite these figures, they’re apparently not enough to convince BMW of the long-term viability of its manuals.

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/02/bm...nual-are-over/

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

well writing is on the wall, death of ICE will go hand in hand with death of gears

[BMWCCA1]

They're looking at this all backward.

If they made fun, light, quick, great handling cars with manual transmissions they'd find the market.

But when you make only over-powered, heavy, luxury cars for rich folks, you reap what you sow. Just sticking a manual in such cars is not really what people want. Nor is it even appropriate.

Go back to the 1M if you want to find your market. Or even my 128i M-sport stick, which could be the last 4-wheeled BMW I ever buy!

[Rafichicago]

I think it’s lost cause here unfortunately majority of brand new car buyers are so excited about new technology that cars become smartphones on wheels. While there are still few enthusiasts it is simply not enough to keep some models alive, and sales figures show that. This will lead to high prices on used car market in those. Low demand but low supply as well. Unfortunately for those few interested. Bmw has been considered premium brand for years. They will simply not make another simple car without modern gimmicks. All the automotive media would bash such car for not being up to modern standards and that would lead to poor sales. Look at cars like MB CLS or BMW 8 series. When tested they are pointing at low rear headroom… Who in their right mind would buy any of those for rear headroom ? Road and track and other automotive magazines will point it out like it’s their biggest discovery. Right Sherlock. Keep them coming.
My point is this. Market moved on in the direction enthusiasts do not like and it will continue to do so. Meanwhile we will have to pay premium for what we like to drive.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Go back to the 1M if you want to find your market.

I wish they would! I'm positive it'll never happen even before this and similar articles about it. I'm amazed that the Z4 will end up with a manual in it and it's why I am on my dealer's list for (according to them at least) the 1st allocation they get. Love my 1-er but after 13 years kind of ready for something new. The Z4 comes pretty close to fulfilling that list (fun, light, quick, good handling, manual and I might add inline 6 and RWD).

[tturedraider]

This contradicts virtually everything we’ve been reading from BMW recently.

[NickyC]

For the rest of my life, manual and ice cars will still be available (if only used). I feel sorry for future generations, but oh well.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

This contradicts virtually everything we’ve been reading from BMW recently.

Like the Z4 getting a manual for 2025 (from the Supra).

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...-transmission/

Got to love the name of the package: Handschalter

[SpencerC_6MT]

We knew the G87 would be the last holdout for years now. I wouldn't be surprised if his remarks are specifically a nod to Euro customers; those emissions standards are tough enough to meet with a twin-turbo 6 and heavily-overdriven 8-speed. The poor manual turns 3000 revs at highway speed, and there's not enough money in it to develop new ratios (or a 7-speed for that matter). Wouldn't be surprised if Euro 7 is the end of manual M2/3/4 in Europe. Given the sales figures, they'll keep making 'em for North America until the G87 meets its demise.

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by jkoral

Like the Z4 getting a manual for 2025 (from the Supra).

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...-transmission/

Got to love the name of the package: Handschalter

According to BMW and the blogs they aren’t used the Supra’s MT and the one they are using was designed just for the G29. 😉

[strohw]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

According to BMW and the blogs they aren’t used the Supra’s MT and the one they are using was designed just for the G29. 😉

That's not a good thing.

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by strohw

That's not a good thing.

Try reading some of the blogs where they test drove the MT Z4. They all raved about it and gave it very high marks! 👍🏻

[DocL]

It's no surprise, but the the day the Miata is no longer available with a MT is the beginning of the end.

[MisanoblueZ4]

Writing is on the way cause the consumer doesn’t want manuals anymore. Enthusiasts willing to fork over $$$ for a manual are shrinking by the day.

Corvette C8 sales have done well without a manual at all, this is it. Blame the enthusiasts for bailing on the manuals……or can you? New automatics are the preferred transmission of most enthusiasts now as it isn’t a surprise as modern automatics are very good/better at extracting performance and chasing tenths of a second.

Enjoy it while it lasts, purchase one and keep it forever. Cause that level of driver engagement will disappear.

[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

They're looking at this all backward.

If they made fun, light, quick, great handling cars with manual transmissions they'd find the market.

But when you make only over-powered, heavy, luxury cars for rich folks, you reap what you sow. Just sticking a manual in such cars is not really what people want. Nor is it even appropriate.

Go back to the 1M if you want to find your market. Or even my 128i M-sport stick, which could be the last 4-wheeled BMW I ever buy!

Yes, you know more about it than they do.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

Yes, you know more about it than they do.

I'm simply saying their current line-up does not lend itself to a manual-transmission car. You can't blame lack of "take" for manuals for killing them off if you don't offer them in anything but real "M" cars. For years manuals were the standard transmission and the autos the option. Then came cell phones, Starbucks, and other things that used up all your hands while driving.

I have made my living selling BMWs since 1976, so I think I do know more about it than many currently at BMW. The right car with a manual is a great car. BMW hasn't had their hearts in the manual since around 2011. The F10 with a manual was an ergonomic disaster. But if you look at the current value of any older BMW stick compared to the same car in an automatic, the difference is stunning. The secondary market for used BMW sticks has been the same as the secondary market for BMW Tourings (wagons) and yet BMW continues to prove that we don't want wagons by bringing in only the M5 in a wagon. That is some self-fulfilling prophecy in which they stack the deck to prove their point. They did this when the E36/5 (318ti) came out and said they were discontinuing it because of poor sales saying Americans just don't buy high-line hatchbacks, when in its lasts full year of production it outsold the combination of all the 3 and 5-series wagons imported. And look at the MINI sales back then, and it's nothing more than a high-line hatchback.

Maybe their stick sales are too poor to continue it, but what I'm saying is don't blame the transmission until you do some sole-searching and see if BMW ever gave the stick a fighting chance by offering it in cars other than the M2/3/4.

When you think back over the BMW models that came ONLY in stick, there are some real winners: M1, 1M, E30 M3, M635Csi/M6, Z8 (non-Alpina), and the first three generations of the M5. So what do you think has changed since then?

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

They're looking at this all backward.

If they made fun, light, quick, great handling cars with manual transmissions they'd find the market.

But when you make only over-powered, heavy, luxury cars for rich folks, you reap what you sow. Just sticking a manual in such cars is not really what people want. Nor is it even appropriate.

Go back to the 1M if you want to find your market. Or even my 128i M-sport stick, which could be the last 4-wheeled BMW I ever buy!

I agree, was just looking at the latest M2 and they intentionally made the AT (ugh, even though it's the touted ZF) better performance-wise, w better gearing and more suited for the car than the MT. It's sad that the 2-series is supposed to be (near) their smallest car but it comes in at 3,814 lbs/1,730kg(!).

That guy was a bit snarky but has a pt: unfortunately, most ppl don't care about performance (in terms of handling). They did make those cars as you've said, it's called 'Lotus' and they had to be saved by Geely as the Brit brand was losing so much money. Ppl simply want big nasty straight-line speed vehicles that pretend to be all-in-ones nowadays. Why do you think we have M SUVs? Insane.

Anyway, 'save the manuals', what about 'save the DCTs'? They were phased out even earlier at least at BMW. I'm a pragmatist, there used to be a time when having a MT meant better performance but that time had long sailed off. DCTs are still the pinnacle in performance but BMW decided to go w a slushbox for cost-savings and anticipating the full move to EVs. There's something about an AT M car that doesn't sit right w me.

[GabesSlowM4]

Guess i'll sell my manual for a premium in 10 years from now!

[eliphil]

This is why I bought a C7 Corvette in 2019 with a M7 STICK. Four years later and still loving it. I drove the C8 wouldn’t swap my C7 for it.

[GabesSlowM4]

Originally Posted by eliphil

This is why I bought a C7 Corvette in 2019 with a M7 STICK. Four years later and still loving it. I drove the C8 wouldn’t swap my C7 for it.

Can Confirm, buddy lemme drive his manual C7 and its a blast. Nothing like a V8 and a MT to downshift

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

I'm simply saying their current line-up does not lend itself to a manual-transmission car. You can't blame lack of "take" for manuals for killing them off if you don't offer them in anything but real "M" cars. For years manuals were the standard transmission and the autos the option. Then came cell phones, Starbucks, and other things that used up all your hands while driving.

I have made my living selling BMWs since 1976, so I think I do know more about it than many currently at BMW. The right car with a manual is a great car. BMW hasn't had their hearts in the manual since around 2011. The F10 with a manual was an ergonomic disaster.

I remember an F10 manual sitting in my dealership’s showroom for months. I also remember it was about halfway through the E90 run that BMWNA gave in and switched from the manual transmission being standard to the automatic being standard. The overall price of the car didn’t change. They raised the MSRP by $1,200. But, it was a psychological barrier for consumers when they saw this expensive BMW they were buying had to have an automatic transmission added at a cost of $1,200. They never noticed the increase in the MSRP, but they noticed there was no longer a $1,200 charge on the options list. And you are correct, that was a turning point in BMWNA’s view of the manual transmission.

[No one]

Originally Posted by MisanoblueZ4

New automatics are the preferred transmission of most enthusiasts now as it isn’t a surprise as modern automatics are very good/better at extracting performance and chasing tenths of a second.

Enthusiasts of what? An automatic transmission is extracting performance and chasing tenths of a second instead of you. You're just a passenger carried fast. It's like they bake a cake for you and eat it to save you the effort (they make a fast car that goes fast without your involvement).