[2010_328i]

Hello everyone. I'm a long time BMW enthusiast with various older model BMWs. Recently, I acquired a 2010 328i sedan that cranks but does not start.

The car has 168K miles and after pulling some codes and a bit of troubleshooting, I decided to replace components that I thought relates to the crank/no start issue.

So far, I have replaced the following with new parts:
Crank Position sensor
(2) Camshaft sensors
(2) Solenoid sensors

The car cranks but does not start. If left for a day or two and reattempt to start, the first initial crank sounds like the motor wants to catch. Subsequent start attempts result in continuous crank without sounding like it wants to start.

The codes that I have are:

P0015 (Exhaust "B" Camshaft Position Timing - Over - Retarded Bank 1)
P054B (cold start B camshaft)
P0365 Camshaft Position B Circuit

Most of the codes shown shows as permanent.

I'm at a loss for ideas at the moment and opened for suggestions from the talented pool of the collective mind here. Anyone has any ideas what to do next?

Thank you in advance.

Chris

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by 2010_328i

... Recently, I acquired a 2010 328i sedan that cranks but does not start... So far, I have replaced the following
with new parts:
Crank Position sensor
(2) Camshaft sensors
(2) Solenoid sensors [VANOS Solenoids?]
The car cranks but does not start. If left for a day or two and reattempt to start, the first initial crank sounds like the
motor wants to catch. Subsequent start attempts result in continuous crank without sounding like it wants to start...
The codes that I have are:
P0015 (Exhaust "B" Camshaft Position Timing - Over - Retarded Bank 1)
P054B (cold start B camshaft)
P0365 Camshaft Position B Circuit
Chris

Those 3 Fault Codes suggest an issue with the Exhaust Cam Position Sensor wiring/ connectors between the Sensor,
Connector X6224, & DME Connector X60007. See the attached ISTA wiring diagram & Connector Location/Views.
If suggestions for TESTING with Multimeter or whatever Scan Tool/ diagnostic software you have are desired,
please advise, & provide Make/Model of Scan Tool or Software.

Here is BMW Fault Code Lookup Definition of "2AA1" & LINK to Fault Info Sheet (See Service Notes):
P0365 | 2AA1 | DME: Camshaft sensor, exhaust, signal | MSV80 | Engine electronics
https://bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagView?d...MAOQA4ADAANAA=

George

[2010_328i]

Hello Gbalthrop. Thank you for sharing the wiring diagram and input on what the culprit may be. Per your suggestion, I can test the wiring for the exhaust camshaft position sensor.

Currently, I have the FoxwellNT510Elite scanner. I also have a digital multimeter.

If you don't mind, please kindly share your suggestion on performing the tests using the tools listed above.

Thank you,
Chris

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by 2010_328i

... Currently, I have the FoxwellNT510Elite scanner. I also have a digital multimeter. If you don't mind, please kindly share your suggestion on performing the tests using the tools listed above. Chris

Hi Chris,
Starting with the "Worst-Case Scenario":
Has vehicle had the "VANOS Bolt Recall" (23V-707) performed? Those codes could be caused by any number of things, but there was recently someone with corresponding faults for Intake Cam (YOUR issue is Exhaust Cam), and he had FOUR broken VANOS Bolts.

NOT to be an alarmist, but particularly if you have NO reliable history on vehicle, I would suggest using a USB Endoscope ($20 Amazon) to view Bolt heads through Oil Filler Port. That does NOT require removal of VC. It does require a Laptop or Android Phone to which you connect the Endoscope.

Please examine the Cam Sensors you removed CAREFULLY for any indication of metal-contact to the Sensor end inserted into engine.

If there is NO alarming sound from engine (metal-to-metal contact) during cranking I would suggest using "Live data" (beginning at p.19 of NT510Elite Manual) to view (1) RPM & (2) Cam Angles (both) during Starter Cranking. That will offer some clues as to whether DME is receiving RPM signal from Crank Sensor, & Cam Angle Signals from Cam Sensors. If DME is NOT receiving those signals, it CANNOT time Spark & Injector Pulse, causing "Crank, NO Start". I don't have a Foxwell, but it appears you begin by "connecting" to the DME Module & then select "Live data" from Function Menu.

Using those "Live Data" values as initial clues, we can suggest HOW to test wiring/ connectors using your multimeter. Let us know if you already know how to measure (1) Voltage or (2) Continuity (Resistance/Ohms) using Multimeter.
George

[2010_328i]

Hello George. Thank you for the detailed reply. Yes, I have a background in electronics so am comfortable with using the mulitmeter to test voltages, resistance and so forth. I just need to get some proper leads for the multimeter to test the components that I replaced.

However, the new components (cam sensors, solenoid valves, crankshaft sensor) have all been installed and with the same symptoms and errors. Errors did not change.

As you recommended, I will purchase an endoscope as it will come in handy for other tasks as well. I have also placed an order with Autohausaz for the following items as I intend to refresh the parts anyways on a 168K miles engine that I have no maintenance records on. The engine is very dry with very little oil leaks...very pleasantly surprised for a BMW.

1: Variable valve lift eccentric shaft actuator
2: Valve cover gasket kit
3: Valve cover bolts
4: Variable valve lift eccentric shaft actuator seal
5: Spark plug tube



As of now, I do not hear any alarming sound from the engine while cranking. The only thing I noticed is the smell of fuel in the engine oil when I pulled the oil filter to examine the oil condition as well as all the parts that needed to be there (all parts present so no concern). I suspect unburned fuel made it into the oil due to multiple attempts at starting the motor.

I will report back on the "live data" extraction using the Foxwell per your suggestion.

Thank you again, George, for the troubleshooting assistance. Much appreciated brother.

Regards,
Chris

[2010_328i]

Hello George. Sorry for the late update as I haven't had much free time to continue with the troubleshooting in the last couple days. Anyways, I had some downtime tonight so went out to the garage and hooked up the Foxwell NT510Elite scanner to get some readings from Live Data menu.

I ran a couple of crank sessions and it does appear that the DME is getting signals from the cam sensors. Please see the data below:


Name: Reference Value
------- --------- -----

First Start Attempt:
---------------------

Ignition timing 2.5* Degree
advance for
#1 cylinder

Engine RPM 155- 168 RPM

Absolute Throttle 14.9 %
Position



Second Start Attempt:
-------------------------
Ignition timing 2.5* Degree
advance for
#1 cylinder

Engine RPM 180- 215 RPM

Absolute Throttle 14.9 %
Position

So what do you think of the readings? I hope that the "ignition timing" is the same difference as what you were looking for in cam angle.

Thanks,
Chris

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by 2010_328i

... Please see the data below:
Ignition timing 2.5* Degree advance for #1 cylinder
Engine RPM 155- 168 RPM

Second Start Attempt:
-------------------------
Ignition timing 2.5* Degree advance for #1 cylinder
Engine RPM 180- 215 RPM

I hope that the "ignition timing" is the same difference as what you were looking for in cam angle.

Hi Chris,
That data indicates the DME is receiving input from the Crankshaft Sensor. I CANNOT account for WHY the 1st Start Attempt shows considerably LOWER RPM than the 2nd Attempt. But since you have NO "P0335" code for Crank Sensor signal, & 2nd attempt is > 180 RPM, I don't believe the Crank Sensor signal is causing "Crank, NO Start".

Ignition timing is NOT the same as Cam Timing/ Angle.
That is the timing of SPARK to ignite fuel during Starter Cranking, showing 2.5 degrees BEFORE TDC (Top Dead Center) or just before piston reaches top of its travel in "Compression Stroke". I have NO Idea if that is ACTUAL spark or rather (Probably) "Target" Ignition Timing. If you have a cheap (~ $5 at HFT) Spark Tester that is connected "In-line" between Coil & Spark Plug, that would be easiest way to determine IF there is actual spark:
https://www.harborfreight.com/in-lin...ker-63590.html

You could also use a mechanic's stethoscope (cheap/ basic tool) to listen to one or two injectors for "Click" or pulse during Starter Cranking, to see if dme is pulsing the injectors. The three codes related to Exhaust Cam Sensor, together with "Crank, NO Start", suggest the dme is NOT getting needed Cam Sensor Signal. Lack of Spark & Injector Pulse would confirm that:
https://www.harborfreight.com/mechan...ope-63691.html

You CAN just use a Long-handled Screwdriver, with bit end against injector body, & handle to your ear. "Shade Tree Mechanic" techniques sometimes work better, or at least as well for some things, than expensive Electronics.

Suggestions:
1) Use "Freeze Frame data" to View/ Save/ Post the System Conditions at the moment EACH of the three Fault Codes was saved. That can offer "Clues" of WHY a code is saved. See this description of FF data:
https://www.obdautodoctor.com/tutori...ame-explained/

2) See what "Live Data" your Foxwell is able to Display. See "Complete List" on page 20 of your Foxwell Manual. Look for: VANOS, Intake Cam, Exhaust Cam. Those are possible "Parameters" or labels for desired data. See my INPA "VANOS" Screen from my 3/2007 build N52K, MSV80 dme, attached to NEXT Post. Since the "Target" angle during Starter Cranking is NOT same as Exhaust Cam Angle after engine start & warmup, that LIVE data may NOT be terribly helpful.

3) Report results from above, and we can suggest "Next Steps".
George

[gbalthrop]

INPA Live data showing VANOS Signals with Ignition ON, PRIOR to Starter Cranking, MSV80 dme, 3/2007 N52K.
Auslass = Exhaust; Sollwert = Target/ Setpoint
George

[2010_328i]

Hi George,

A short report back while I had half hour to work on the car this evening.

1: I do have a mechanic's stethoscope and inline spark tester (these were used extensively on my '91 850i when I was troubleshooting rough idle and no start issues a number of years back).

2: With the stethoscope and a helper, I was able to confirm that the DME was commanding the fuel injectors as I hear the click, click click sound while the helper cranked the engine for a few seconds at a time (all 6 injectors firing).

3: My Lisle inline spark plug tester is too short on both ends (spark plug and coil plug) so I ended up having to order another tester from Amazon that looks like it would work.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

4: I haven't had time to read up on the user's manual to do the freeze frame but will be getting around to that tomorrow hopefully.

5: I removed the new cam sensors (intake and exhaust) and measured resistance on the plugs for each sensor. The resistance values of both sensor electrical connectors match.
For example, 3 three cables on the plug main colors are:
Orange Black Yellow

Orange to Black = 4ohm
Yellow to Black = 2.64Kohm
Orange to Yellow = 2.64Kohm

One thing worth mentioning is that the first attempt to start the motor after removing and reinstalling the cam sensors, the first 2-3 seconds sound like the motor want to catch but then it just cranks.

Previous times when the motor sounds like it wants to catch on the first attempt of start was when the motor was left alone for a couple of days. Not sure how I can correlate that event to something yet.

Thanks,
Chris

[2010_328i]

Hello George.

A little more to report back. I took delivery of a pair of inline spark plug tester. However, I still had some trouble getting the inline tester to fit between the spark plug coil and the spark plug. The inline tester that I purchased from Amazon, the wire lead is still about 3 inches too short. I made it to work but it was clumsy and had to get a friend to hold the inline tester metal end tightly against the ignition coil for it to conduct (with rubber gloves for protection).

I ran the test on cylinder 1 and the friend verified that the inline tester light up so there is ignition. Would you think I also need to randomly select another cylinder to test or would testing the ignition coil at cylinder number 1 would suffice to verify there is spark?

Thank you,
Chris

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by 2010_328i

... I ran the test on cylinder 1 and the friend verified that the inline tester light up so there is ignition...Chris

Hi Chris:
My understanding is:
1) You bought the car as "Crank, NO Start", and have NEVER seen it run;
2) You have 3 Codes related to Exhaust Cam Position Sensor, NO other DME Codes;
3) You have NOT yet used Endoscope to check status of Exhaust VANOS bolts;
4) You have NOT tested COMPRESSION on cylinders during Cranking;
5) Mechanic's Stethoscope indicates Injector Pulse during cranking;
6) Spark Tester indicates Spark, at least on ONE cylinder, during cranking.

Please refer to Post #4 above, VANOS Bolt Recall. RCRIT from 2014 recall is attached here. Your 2010 328i is included in the 2023 recall. I would suggest doing ONE of the following to determine Exhaust Cam Function:

1) Compression Test: remove plugs from all cylinders and measure compression on ALL.

2) Use Endoscope to examine Exhaust Cam (Lower-Right side of Engine) VANOS Bolts. You would have to rotate Crankshaft, turning it CLOCKWISE as viewed from Front, to see ALL FOUR Bolts.

I never like to ASSume the worst, but if my understanding of your facts is correct, I fear the Exhaust Cam is NOT turning, and the engine has serious internal issues. Please let us know the results of either test above.

BTW, since the coils put out voltage in range of 50,000 V, and that CAN KILL you, I would NOT get within several inches of anything connected to coil plug boot during Cranking. Rubber Gloves are NOT proper protection.
George

[2010_328i]

Hello George. Thank you again for your continued support on my issues. I did have a look with an endoscope but did not see anything unusual. I didn't see any metal shavings or metallic bits inside. I won't say that my inspection was thorough as I was not aware that I need to rotatr the motor to see all 4 bolts.

I have received all the parts I ordered to perform a valve gasket replacement so I will be taking the valve covers off in the next 2-3 days. I will have everything exposed under the valve cover by then to assess for mechanical damage (keeping fingers crossed that won't be the case). I will report back.

Thank you,
Chris

[2010_328i]

I apologize for the long wait between updates. It's been a crazy couple weeks and no time to work on the car so nothing to report back. However, after a bit more research and reading, George, I think your prognosis about the Exhaust CAM issue internally may have some truth to it in my case. It can only be confirmed once I have the time to take the valve cover off.

Thanks,
Chris

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Maybe it's out of time.

[2010_328i]

Hello George. I finally got a few hours this evening to work on the car again. I managed to get the valve cover off and had a good look at the camshaft sprockets for both intake and exhaust.

Bad news. All four bolts on the exhaust camshaft sprocket has sheared off. I was only able to locate 1 that was sitting in a crevice by the sprocket. The rest I couldn't find.

I'm attaching some pictures for all to view.

One picture shows the intake camshaft with all four bolts still attached.
The other picture shows the exhaust camshaft sprocket with missing bolt head.

At this point, I can't really do a compression test because the valve cover is off.
I am contemplating what to do next, but one thing I know for sure, I need to get a new replacement exhaust camshaft sprocket and probably 4 new bolts for the intake camshaft sprocket.

I know I should drop the oil pan and look for the missing bolt heads if there are any of them left. I have no idea how much damage those sheared bolt heads have caused.

I did some research on dropping the oil pan for the N52 and it's a pain in the arse.

Not sure what I to do next.

[NZE90]

Did you check if it's covered by the recall for this problem?

[2010_328i]

Originally Posted by NZE90

Did you check if it's covered by the recall for this problem?

I had thought about it but not sure if I would be too lucky. I'm not the original owner and it's luckily past the allowed timeframe for the recall work, but please educate me if I'm wrong.

Thanks,
Chris

[Mike K]

Sorry for your woes but not surprised. Run your VIN on the BMW recall website. A safety recall is a safety recall and it doesn't matter if you are the original owner. Don't confuse this latest safety recall with BMW's previous voluntary Vanos recall that expired a few years back. Trouble is currently, none of the dealers have the bolts so now the recall is stuck in a long holding pattern.

Read my saga regarding this same issue:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ight=whistling

The faulty Vanos bolts (with the center security pin) are in your oil pan most likely, but check around above carefully too. I found a couple bits there.

[2010_328i]

@Mike

I read that thread you shared the link above. Wow, what a journey you travelled with the faulty Vanos bolts. I also checked the recall status on my 328i and there is indeed 1 open recall pertaning to the faulty Vanos bolts.

What should I do? The valve cover is off and I'm about to place an order for the needed parts to take care of the issue. I've already replaced the vanos solenoids, cam sensors, crankshaft sensors, and I have the Vanos actuator ready to be installed.

Should I call BMW to take in my car to do the repair? If this route is possible, I will need to reinstall everything back before they take the car away for work.

What you all think I should do?

Thanks,
Chris

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by 2010_328i

I had thought about it but not sure if I would be too lucky. I'm not the original owner and it's luckily past the allowed timeframe for the recall work, but please educate me if I'm wrong. [See attached "Education" ]

Hi Chris,
There was an "early recall/ Warranty" in 2014, and then, last November (2023) Recall 23V-707 was announced. I attach the 2014 RCRIT which explains the procedure then, and the Safety Recall Report for 23V-707.

Apparently the "FIX" if 4 bolts are broken on Exhaust VANOS:
1) Replace Exhaust VANOS Unit;
2) Replace all 8 VANOS Bolts;
3) Remove Pan & find any VANOS Bolt heads/pieces which are NOT found on top of head;
4) Check for any damage to Exhaust Valves if Cam timing lost.

Register here, & then look for outstanding recalls, to ensure your vehicle is subject to this recall; also check NHTSA site:
https://login.bmwusa.com/oneid/#/log...pt?language=en

Then call your local BMW dealer & see what they suggest. Please let us know how it goes. Be aware that some dealers are NOT able to get parts or otherwise proceed with 23V-707 recall. WHY is NOT Clear.

Edit: There is a reimbursement process for claiming repayment for your parts/expenses.
George

[2010_328i]

Hello George,

Thank you for the suggestions and the attached PDFs. They are both very useful. I'm feeling a little heroic here and am willing to tackle the repair work rather than wait for BMW to approve my request. The car has been sitting in the garage for too long and it's taking up the space of the garage queen (e31).

As you mentioned about the "reimbursement process", how would one get started? I've registered my car just now by going to the link you provided above.

Again, a Big "Thanks" to you and others that have provided feedback, suggestions, advices. They are all very valuable to me and hopefully to others that are experiencing or will be experiencing this issue down the road.

Best regards,
Chris

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by 2010_328i

... As you mentioned about the "reimbursement process", how would one get started?...

Hi Chris,
Here is link to BMW page that addresses Recalls & Tread Act Reimbursement:
https://www.bmwusa.com/safety-and-emission-recalls.html

I would suggest getting "Genuine BMW directions" from dealer or BMW/NA on:
1) WHAT you need to submit to document reimbursement: photos, receipts, etc., and SAVE anything you might need as if an impending trial.
2) ASK dealer/ BMW/NA about SOURCE of replacement VANOS Bolts. Part# I have seen on Recall Invoice posted on Forum is NOT Available when I searched several parts suppliers. Recall says dealer may NOT use old stock, but says NOTHING about new bolts. Parts Retailers may NOT have full info on this.
3) Ask for "WRITTEN INSTRUCTIONS" (at least email) from dealer/ BMW/NA on Tread Act procedure & comply with that. I've never made a claim & CANNOT advise on that.
4) Bear in mind that this is an EXPENSIVE endeavor for BMW, with time & expenses often in $2,000 range if new VANOS unit(s), drop pan to retrieve bolts, gaskets, 10+ hours labor, etc. Expect BMW to NOT want to pay if you do NOT comply with (or get) written instructions.
5) "Trust but VERIFY." AKA: CYA/ prepare like a litigator.

Good luck, & please let us know your experience.
George