[nuke21]

For the past month, I really started to notice a light noise, that I can only mentally relate it to the chain rattling. It is only noticed at higher RPM or when the car is about to shift (automatic), It like gets louder as the RPMs go higher and gets quieter right after it shifts. If I let off the gas and for coast, I don't hear the sound. So it feel load related. I was thinking of trying to record the sound but what I was able to record, other noises drown it out. It is something I have noticed I have to really like hone in on in the car to hear it.

At first I thought it was just a little lifter noise. I read it is a common thing to hear the lifter noise. I looked into where you add oil and the few lifters I could see look great. Including the cam lobes.

Then I started getting this P0015 code. It would pop up, then go away after a few start cycles then go a week and it would come back. I feel lately it has been on pretty solid. My code reader says: "Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P0015 stands for Exhaust “B” Camshaft Position Timing – Over – Retarded (Bank 1). This code involves your vehicle’s camshaft timing, specifically your variable valve timing (VVT) also known as variable camshaft timing (VCT). The P0015 code will be triggered once the powertrain control module or PCM detects that your vehicle’s camshaft timing is over-retarded."

I have 178,000 miles on it. Got it at 110k miles. Since I have had it I have been doing regular oil changes and treating the car well. I don't know the history of the previous owners since I got it at a dealer.

I read online that these cars have amazing timing chains and that isn't probably the issue. But if what I am hearing correctly is indeed the chain, I wonder if my tensioner is failing or if a guide is worn/broken or if the valvetronic motor is the cause of all of this.

I was just wondering if someone had any guidence or experience on something similar to steer me in the right direction.

[PhaceN52]

That P code corresponds to various bmw specific codes, can't you read 'em? They pinpoint more specifically to the causes and to what to do. If you fear the camshaft - crankshaft correlation could be caused by loss of tension on the chain/jumped teeth by a weak tensioner you can try to have a look on the check valves near it, if they are stuck open they will let oil drain back to the sump instead of keeping it in the head so the vanos and chain tensioner will not work properly, but you say you can't hear anything on deceleration so it's a long shot.
A fast way to exclude the camshaft position sensor is to swap em and check if the code follows, if not it's something else

[Tambohamilton]

Chain noise would not be related to engine load. On the N47 diesel, it's most noticeable around 1500-2000rpm generally, so I'd expect similar on other engines. Sounds like someone shaking a maraca to begin with.

Get a BMW-specific code reader instead of a generic one - it'll save you time and money.

[nuke21]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Chain noise would not be related to engine load. On the N47 diesel, it's most noticeable around 1500-2000rpm generally, so I'd expect similar on other engines. Sounds like someone shaking a maraca to begin with.

Get a BMW-specific code reader instead of a generic one - it'll save you time and money.

Okay, so I need to start by getting a more specific code. Got it. My friend gave me a BimmerGeeks cable. If I buy a membership or whatever, will that give me the more unique code?

[PhaceN52]

Originally Posted by nuke21

Okay, so I need to start by getting a more specific code. Got it. My friend gave me a BimmerGeeks cable. If I buy a membership or whatever, will that give me the more unique code?

*coff INPA bmw standard tools *cough google

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by nuke21

Okay, so I need to start by getting a more specific code. Got it. My friend gave me a BimmerGeeks cable. If I buy a membership or whatever, will that give me the more unique code?

If you use bimmergeeks protool app (android), then that will work.

Or you can find a copy of INPA/ista somewhere (for free), and that will work too

[Cloverdale]

And clean the cam shaft position sensors when you swap them as PhaceN52 suggested .

[nuke21]

I tried getting the INPA/ista somewhere free and every place I found the download links were not working so I bit the bullet and just paid for the BimmerGeeks protool so I can get started on the fix. I noticed when the check engine light is not on, I don't hear that rattle, so that makes me think it isn't a chain guide because that would happen all the time I assume.



I guess I need to start by replacing this to see if that solves my problem? I wonder if a good cleaning would fix it? Do I have to take off the valve cover to get to this?

[PhaceN52]

Clean vanos solenoids first and swap em to see if code follows, plenty of diys here in the forum, clean check valves near the tensioner and see if they are free to move or stuck open, only after that I'd open the valve cover to see if you have backed out/broken bolts on the vanos actuators... It could be the bearing ledge too, since it points to the exhaust side it would be replaceable, don't worry. Just my 2 cents

[nuke21]

Originally Posted by PhaceN52

Clean vanos solenoids first and swap em to see if code follows, plenty of diys here in the forum, clean check valves near the tensioner and see if they are free to move or stuck open, only after that I'd open the valve cover to see if you have backed out/broken bolts on the vanos actuators... It could be the bearing ledge too, since it points to the exhaust side it would be replaceable, don't worry. Just my 2 cents

Thank you very much for the suggestions PhaceN52, I took out both solenoids and let the metal parts soak in part cleaner for a little bit and then I activated the solenoid a few times to try to give it a more thorough cleaning. I put them back in the BMW in the same corresponding spot and after about 5 mi the same code came back up. I then swap their position and so far no code and it's been about a hundred miles.

I feel the code was popping up a lot when the weather was really warm and I had the AC going and what a surprise lately it's actually been very cold weather and I have not needed to run my AC at all so I will give it more time to see if the code comes back up.

I imagine if the solenoid is bad it will be bad on the intake side also, unless the intake side just doesn't work as much as the exhaust side so maybe the solenoid is able to keep up. I don't know but I guess I will see what happens after I give it a little bit more driving time

[Mike K]

When my faulty (and now recalled) Vanos bolts failed, it sounded like a chain rattle. Run your vin on the BMW recall site.

Here's my faulty Vanos bolts saga:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ight=whistling

[gbalthrop]

Yo, Folks! Many/Most DME Fault Codes have a P-code (here P0015) which is EQUIVALENT to a Hex-Code (Hexadecimal) Code (here 2A87). Here is BMW Fault Code Lookup definition for that Code. See also the Fault Information LINK, which follows the Definition:

P0015 | 2A87 | DME: Exhaust VANOS, mechanism | MSV80 | Engine electronics
https://bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagView?d...gAMgA1ADAANAA=

Nuke21, the VVT is the Valvetronic system which controls throttle by INCREASING Intake Valve opening/'Lift' to increase throttle, NOT by using Throttle Valve/ Butterfly in Intake. VVT has NOTHING to do with "VANOS" Cam Timing. The P0015/2A87 Code means your EXHAUST Cam is too retarded, under CERTAIN engine conditions. Apparently from your description, that is NOT always the case. It is INTERMITTENT.

Get something RELIABLE to show you HOW VANOS works. Bentley Manual is generally good for instruction on how E9x Systems work, and does a good Job of explaining VANOS (Cam timing adjustment via oil supply, per VANOS Solenoid, to VANOS Unit on each Cam) & the unrelated VVT/ Valvetronic System, which acts as "Throttle" on N52/N51 Engine used in 328i.

So, if you want to properly DIAGNOSE your issue, the BEST way, since you NOW have ProTool, is to read ProTool Manual/ Documentation on HOW to view "Live Data" when connected to the Engine Module (DME). You want to view Actual Cam Angle for BOTH the Intake & Exhaust Cams, particularly at warm idle, and record (1) the Actual Angle of Each, & (2) the "Target" Angle that DME is requesting, as well as (3) Engine Temp (ECTS signal) & RPM.

ALSO, if the 2A87 Fault Code is still present, or returns, BEFORE you clear it, view the "Freeze Frame Data" associated with that Fault Code. That will show you such things as Engine Temp, RPM, Load, Mileage/km, at the moment the Fault was Saved. Fault Codes are only the starting point for Diagnosis. You need to understand HOW a particular system works, & WHAT DATA your ProTool can display.

As example, the oil delivery requirement to each VANOS Unit is GREATEST at Idle. At Hot Idle, the oil is Least Viscous (thinnest) & has least pressure from the Oil Pump. Any restriction in the oil gallery related to that Cam, or related to the VANOS Solenoid Screen, will result in "Retardation" of that cam. Issues related to Oil Filter element (collapsed), small O-ring missing, or missing OFH Cover "Spool" that the filter is supposed to fit on (too frequently thrown away by Jiffy-Lube Rookies) can reduce Oil Pressure.

Rather than "Discourage You", I hope to ENCOURAGE YOU to take the time to ask questions, get correct understanding of how systems work, and learn the Capabiities of your ProTool.
George

[gbalthrop]

Attached are 4 ScreenPrints from Bentley Manual, related to "Valve Gear"; VANOS & VVT/Valvetronic.
George

[nuke21]

Originally Posted by Mike K

When my faulty (and now recalled) Vanos bolts failed, it sounded like a chain rattle. Run your vin on the BMW recall site.

Here's my faulty Vanos bolts saga:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ight=whistling

I checked the website and it says I only have a PC recall, I wonder if this means it has either already been done or if it didn't qualify. Maybe I will call the dealership and see if it has been done.

[Mike K]

I’ve heard that you can get a cheap usb boroscope in there to inspect the bolts. The bad ones, if still intact, have a center security pin on their torx pattern. The bolts are on the back side of the Vanos units. The exhaust are the ones that fail first.

You would rotate the crank with a big socket wrench, and then inspect the back of the Vanos to check these known bad bolts. The replacement bolts have no security pin and right now they are unobtainium which has stalled the recall dead in its tracks.

Or pull the VC as I did in my thread.

[nuke21]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Attached are 4 ScreenPrints from Bentley Manual, related to "Valve Gear"; VANOS & VVT/Valvetronic.
George

Thank you for all the great information gbalthrop! So far the information PhaceN52 gave me about swapping them has so far solves the problem. I haven't (knock on wood) had any codes pop back up since switching the intake and exhaust ones around (which is blizzar to me but it's working).