[Fuel_Economist]

Hello!
I recently acquired a 2010 335d (U.S. spec with all emissions systems in tact) and I am wondering if I should anticipate oil consumption between oil change intervals. Should I add oil between changes? How much and how often?
The car is currently at 140k miles. I use it primarily for longer trips on the highway (50 miles round-trip) about 4 times a week. I also do a very small amount of city driving.
It is probably worth mentioning one of my turbo oil lines is seeping although I do intend to get that sorted soon.
Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[POBEP]

Originally Posted by Fuel_Economist

Hello!
I am wondering if I should anticipate oil consumption between oil change intervals.

It depends on the engine condition and the way it is driven.

- my E70 35d looses ~1.2 liters every 10,000mi through CCV (126,000mi)
- my E90 335d does not loose any oil between oils changes at all (165,000mi)

check oil level every 2,000mi or so, add up to 1L when it drops to min level mark
the bigger concern on M57 could be rising oil level (though rare), which indicates fuel dilution

As you still have all emissions in place
- use LL04 approved oil only
- check coolant temp after 15 min of driving - it should be around 88C (+/- 2C ok). if not - replace thermostat ASAP

[Fuel_Economist]

Roger that. 1000 miles since the last oil change so I will be checking the level soon. Thankfully M57 has a dipstick.
By the way, what is your oil change interval? I have seen debates over 5k-7k and the indie shop I took my 335d to put a service reminder sticker on my windshield due 7k miles from that oil service date.

[lnxguy]

You shouldn't have to add much between changes if any. I like to change the oil anywhere from 6-8k miles.

[Fuel_Economist]

Originally Posted by lnxguy

You shouldn't have to add much between changes if any. I like to change the oil anywhere from 6-8k miles.

Got it, thanks!
I come from a VW Audi background where some of the cars my family had drank oil like crazy and we had to keep multiple quarts in the hatch at all times

[POBEP]

Originally Posted by Fuel_Economist

By the way, what is your oil change interval?

this is sensitive topic here.
you'll find range of responses from 5Kmi to factory OCI (13Kmi)

just like lnxguy said: ~7Kmi would be on a safe side.

my, (and only my) UOA data points:
- M57: E90 showed less than desired at 11Kmi (I am dropping it to 8Kmi for now)
- M57: E70 consistently shows healthy UOA reports at 10Kmi
- N47: F25 6Kmi yields into good UOA, 9Kmi (factory OCI) was a stretch

[Fuel_Economist]

Originally Posted by POBEP

this is sensitive topic here.
you'll find range of responses from 5Kmi to factory OCI (13Kmi)

just like lnxguy said: ~7Kmi would be on a safe side.

my, (and only my) UOA data points:
- M57: E90 showed less than desired at 11Kmi (I am dropping it to 8Kmi for now)
- M57: E70 consistently shows healthy UOA reports at 10Kmi
- N47: F25 6Kmi yields into good UOA, 9Kmi (factory OCI) was a stretch

7kmi it is!

[BB_cuda]

Originally Posted by POBEP

It depends on the engine condition and the way it is driven.

- my E70 35d looses ~1.2 liters every 10,000mi through CCV (126,000mi)
- my E90 335d does not loose any oil between oils changes at all (165,000mi)

check oil level every 2,000mi or so, add up to 1L when it drops to min level mark
the bigger concern on M57 could be rising oil level (though rare), which indicates fuel dilution

As you still have all emissions in place
- use LL04 approved oil only
- check coolant temp after 15 min of driving - it should be around 88C (+/- 2C ok). if not - replace thermostat ASAP

I would have to say you're going to be replacing T/S quite often if you change out at 86°C. I maintain 2 M57 and my replace threshold is more like 79-80C. 2nd thing is I recommend the Genuine BMW part here as we've gotten reports of quick degradation and or out and out mechanical breakage of knock off T/S. Its your money and you do what you want but I seem to get about 2 years out of the genuine ones. Best of luck.

[Fuel_Economist]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

I would have to say you're going to be replacing T/S quite often if you change out at 86°C. I maintain 2 M57 and my replace threshold is more like 79-80C. 2nd thing is I recommend the Genuine BMW part here as we've gotten reports of quick degradation and or out and out mechanical breakage of knock off T/S. Its your money and you do what you want but I seem to get about 2 years out of the genuine ones. Best of luck.

What is T/S? Was that a reference to th leaking turbo oil line? If so, You recommended OEM parts and replacing ASAP?

[lnxguy]

Originally Posted by Fuel_Economist

What is T/S? Was that a reference to th leaking turbo oil line? If so, You recommended OEM parts and replacing ASAP?

Thermostat.. If you end up replacing it, stick with OEM. That's all you gotta worry about.

[Fuel_Economist]

Originally Posted by lnxguy

Thermostat.. If you end up replacing it, stick with OEM. That's all you gotta worry about.

Got it. Thanks!

[POBEP]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

I would have to say you're going to be replacing T/S quite often if you change out at 86°C. I maintain 2 M57 and my replace threshold is more like 79-80C. 2nd thing is I recommend the Genuine BMW part here as we've gotten reports of quick degradation and or out and out mechanical breakage of knock off T/S. Its your money and you do what you want but I seem to get about 2 years out of the genuine ones. Best of luck.

BB_cuda - thanks

Agreed, 86C threshold is probably overkill.
With EGR cooler still in place it is a time consuming effort to get to it.

Another interesting factor could be ambient temps (and of course load)
I noticed that my E70 holds steady at 88C when outside is above 5C
Once it gets below 0C, it struggles go above 85C @ steady rural 50mph speeds.

I waited until mine dropped to 82C - and it followed with SCR issues (sensors & cat failures).
Both were replaced under warranty (just a hair before 80Kmi).
I am still on the second one, 5Y/50Kmi. Factory one was replaced at 7Y/75Kmi.

My highest was 105C - July, trailer loaded with cement bags, passing everyone uphill

[Fuel_Economist]

Originally Posted by POBEP

BB_cuda - thanks

Agreed, 86C threshold is probably overkill.
With EGR cooler still in place it is a time consuming…

Regeneration cycles cause an brief spike in temperature, correct? Something about heating up to burn off diesel particulate/soot.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by Fuel_Economist

Regeneration cycles cause an brief spike in temperature, correct? Something about heating up to burn off diesel particulate/soot.

Probably don't affect coolant temp much - all the heat is sent out of the exhaust. That said, I reckon this is why these cars don't have a physical temp gauge.

[POBEP]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Probably don't affect coolant temp much - all the heat is sent out of the exhaust. That said, I reckon this is why these cars don't have a physical temp gauge.

The soot begins to burn out when EGT temp approaches 600C
The full regen lasts 15 minutes
Periodic less than 5 minutes

During regen 335d coolant temps rise
- +4C at highway speeds
- +10C in a traffic.

with older (non-us) DDE you can code cluster to show coolant temps instead of fuel efficiency. not possible with US DDE 7.3

[BB_cuda]

Originally Posted by lnxguy

Thermostat.. If you end up replacing it, stick with OEM. That's all you gotta worry about.

I work in thermal control systems and we say thermostat 10 times a day. T/S has been abbreviation I've used over 30 years. Sorry

[lnxguy]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

I work in thermal control systems and we say thermostat 10 times a day. T/S has been abbreviation I've used over 30 years. Sorry

No need to apologize for something like that lol.

[slipstreampilot]

A stock 335d can burn anywhere from a quart/liter every oil change to every 2000 miles depending on how much you depress your right foot, the oil you are running and the condition of your turbos. Excessive oil burn is a symptom that one or both of your turbos are leaking oil into the exhaust stream, which will plug your primary catalyst and DPF (if stock) over time. I have 2 2011 335ds and a 2013 X535d (all M57). None are stock, and every one of them has a different oil consumption rate.

The first 335d I bought had to have the big turbo replaced at 65k miles (shortly after a tune change), 80k miles later the small turbo is starting to cause a higher burn rate. My second 335d burns a steady 0.75-1 quart over 5-6k miles. My X5 burns almost no oil until around 5k miles, which is the cue I use to change oil in that car.

[lnxguy]

Originally Posted by slipstreampilot

A stock 335d can burn anywhere from a quart/liter every oil change to every 2000 miles depending on how much you depress your right foot, the oil you are running and the condition of your turbos. Excessive oil burn is a symptom that one or both of your turbos are leaking oil into the exhaust stream, which will plug your primary catalyst and DPF (if stock) over time. I have 2 2011 335ds and a 2013 X535d (all M57). None are stock, and every one of them has a different oil consumption rate.

The first 335d I bought had to have the big turbo replaced at 65k miles (shortly after a tune change), 80k miles later the small turbo is starting to cause a higher burn rate. My second 335d burns a steady 0.75-1 quart over 5-6k miles. My X5 burns almost no oil until around 5k miles, which is the cue I use to change oil in that car.

Most excessive oil burn is from worn valve stem seals, not turbos. If the turbos go, your oil consumption skyrockets. If you're burning a quart every 2k miles you've got a serious issue.. This isn't normal.

[slipstreampilot]

The likelihood valve stem seals are leaking on a M57 is extremely low. The turbos on these cars degrade gracefully in a majority of cases and with leak oil into the exhaust stream a tiny amount at first, and increase over time. You see this with a puff of smoke at startup that gradually increases over time. I replaced the offending turbos in the cars I mentioned and consumption goes back to negligible. The gentleman who tuned my cars has been working on European diesels for decades and specializes in M57 cars - as well as VAG diesels, and the words I posted are essentially what he told me a few years ago when the fist turbo started going bad. No play on the shaft, just leaking oil.

He recently tuned his X5 to explore the limits of the stock parts after installing injectors and a R90. He tracks that vehicle and was producing nearly 870 lb ft at the wheels when the stock small turbo did exactly what I described.

[slipstreampilot]

One of the biggest sources of turbo destruction in these cars are boost leaks. Whether intercooler hoses (seals), intake manifold gasket leaks, vacuum lines leaking - they all lead to the turbos working harder than they should, and expediting failure. That’s stock or tuned. The charge hoses on these cars are infamous for leaking. That orange hose on the (U.S.) passenger side of the intercooler many times is so caked with oil it’s crazy. That is one of many boost leak culprits that force your car to try to pressurize the atmosphere with those turbos, of course to no avail. Eventually they start pissing oil into the exhaust side - and of course into the compressor side is not heard of.

I asked my tuner if he has seen valve stem seals leak on an M57. He laughed and said - once. The car had almost 400k on it, and the the valve stems were not the major problem with the motor.

The small turbo is usually the most common culprit. Occasionally it’s the big turbo.

[lnxguy]

Originally Posted by slipstreampilot

The likelihood valve stem seals are leaking on a M57 is extremely low. The turbos on these cars degrade gracefully in a majority of cases and with leak oil into the exhaust stream a tiny amount at first, and increase over time. You see this with a puff of smoke at startup that gradually increases over time. I replaced the offending turbos in the cars I mentioned and consumption goes back to negligible. The gentleman who tuned my cars has been working on European diesels for decades and specializes in M57 cars - as well as VAG diesels, and the words I posted are essentially what he told me a few years ago when the fist turbo started going bad. No play on the shaft, just leaking oil.

He recently tuned his X5 to explore the limits of the stock parts after installing injectors and a R90. He tracks that vehicle and was producing nearly 870 lb ft at the wheels when the stock small turbo did exactly what I described.

Valve steam seals leak on these all the time, and are the usually the cause of the 'smoke on startup'

No idea where you're getting your information from, but you should probably double check it instead of regurgitating incorrect information.