[POBEP]

2009 E91 N52K, 116,515 miles.

recent service:
- PCV heater recall (new fuse in E box), 3 weeks ago (dealer)
- Today: spark plugs and coils (DIY)

Issue:
- all electronics shut off (INKA, KOMBI, CIC, CAS, FRM, etc) randomly
- engine runs smooth during "death" event and car remans "drivable"

just like everything goes out it may also come back to life randomly
battery is relatively new, 85% charge.

When car goes in "dead" mode - not scannable at all (like if battery is disconnected)
Nearly 50 various codes, noticeably tons of KCAN communication faults.
After clearing codes everything is green until next death event

Where should I start?
Open DME box and check connections?
Perhaps I pulled a connector from DME by stretching wiring harness that goes from DME over the engine during cowl reassembly.

gbalthrop - George can you please chime in? Thanks!

[M-technik-3]

How long has this been happening?

Weather conditions different then before this started?

California just had a very wet period any chance your DME is wet?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by POBEP

2009 E91 N52K...recent service:
- PCV heater recall (new fuse in DME), 3 weeks ago (dealer)
- Today: spark plugs and coils (DIY)
Issue:
- all electronics shut off (INKA, KOMBI, CIC, CAS, FRM, etc) randomly
- engine runs smooth during "death" event and car remans "drivable"
When car goes in "dead" mode - not scannable at all (like if battery is disconnected)
Nearly 50 various codes, noticeably tons of KCAN communication faults.
After clearing codes everything is green until next death event...

Questions:
A) Last-7 Characters of VIN?
B) When "dead", is there battery voltage at OBD II Socket X19527/16 with Ignition ON? That's the TOP Socket of Inboard (closest to driver feet) column of sockets.
C) Make/Model Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software (INPA/ISTA available)?
D) If you have INPA/ISTA, please attach ScreenPrint of ALL Fault Codes in ALL Modules after "dead" event
Please List:
1) Specific Functions/Components that do NOT work, light-up, etc.
e.g. does IHKA Control Panel Light-up? Does Blower function? Does Driver Switch Cluster Function? Do Rear Windows function from rear door switches? Does ANYTHING appear on Instrument Cluster? Does Radio Display light-up? Do interior lights work when Driver Door opened? Does Gong sound when Driver Door opened with Remote Key in Insert Compartment?

2) Specific Functions/ components that DO continue to work:
e.g. engine continues to run normally (& fuel pump).

3) Do you have AT or MT?

4) WHEN did "dead" event first occur? Yesterday? Shortly after Recall performed & BEFORE coil/plug change?

5) Was anything recently done in area of JB Fuse Panel or JBE Connectors (Black & Blue) below fuse panel?

As you state, if engine continues to run normally (PT-CAN communication & Fuel Pump operation continue) but you had K-CAN communication faults and components connected to Modules on K-CAN cease to function (KOMBI, IHKA, Radio, etc.) that suggests LACK of K-CAN communication is causing "dead" mode & NOT Voltage Supply or ground issues.

Answers to questions above are needed before ASSuming anything, however.
If you have ISTA, search "K-CAN" with filter ONLY for SSP wiring diagrams, & you will see the Modules on K-CAN, & can view JBE Connectors X14271 & X14272 for K-CAN Pin/Socket Locations. I would disconnect X14271 (Blue) & inspect Pins/Sockets #10 (Green wire) & #46 (Orange/Green); then inspect X14272 (Black) Pins/Sockets #10, 12, 11, 30, 29, 31, 47, & 48.
George

[POBEP]

E91 is my daily M-F

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

How long has this been happening?

started yesterday (Sat afternoon) - right after I reassembled cover & cowl as part of spark plugs and coils replacement:
- changed 1,5 & 6: then run engine for less than a minute - all good
- changed 2,3,4: then run engine for less than a minute - all good
- put cover and cowl back: "read car on the lift" in cluster, followed by "everything dead" event

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

Weather conditions different then before this started? California just had a very wet period

- SF had light rain Tue night & Wed day: nothing like it was in SoCal

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

any chance your DME is wet?

- could be, but DME box (outside) and around was dry
- ATM lean towards "bad mechanic skills" (me) as a cause of "damage"

[ptpending]

i think fusebox B+ terminal
remove passenger footwell cover under glovebox
give a slight punch to jb/jbe

[POBEP]

thank you all for feedback.

working on gbalthrop checklist ATM

VIN: WBAUT93549A191107

Attaching fresh bimmerlink code readout (post "death" event(s) from yesterday)

small data point: I've used (first time on E91) xHP bluetooth adapter (wifi) and upon switching to bluetooth OBDLInk CX "death" events are not surfacing.
not relevant, ignore please

[POBEP]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

A) Last-7 Characters of VIN?

A191107

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

B) When "dead", is there battery voltage at OBD II Socket X19527/16 with Ignition ON? That's the TOP Socket of Inboard (closest to driver feet) column of sockets.

Yes

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

C) Make/Model Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software (INPA/ISTA available)?

Bimmerlink (xHP wifi / OBDlink CX), Protools (and their USB cable), ISTA (and quality USB cable)

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

D) If you have INPA/ISTA, please attach ScreenPrint of ALL Fault Codes in ALL

see attached

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Modules after "dead" event


Please List:
1) Specific Functions/Components that do NOT work, light-up, etc.
e.g. does IHKA Control Panel Light-up? Does Blower function? Does Driver Switch Cluster Function? Do Rear Windows function from rear door switches? Does ANYTHING appear on Instrument Cluster? Does Radio Display light-up? Do interior lights work when Driver Door opened? Does Gong sound when Driver Door opened with Remote Key in Insert Compartment?

all of the above are "dead": no cluster, no radio, no blower, no CIC, no climate, no windows, no lights, no gong.
I "think" I hear relays clicking, but could be wrong

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

2) Specific Functions/ components that DO continue to work:
e.g. engine continues to run normally (& fuel pump).

engine still running and AT transmission shifts just fine

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

3) Do you have AT or MT?

AT

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

4) WHEN did "dead" event first occur? Yesterday? Shortly after Recall performed & BEFORE coil/plug change?

2025-02-15: right after cowl reassembly as part of coil/plug change.
2025-01-22: PCV recall date, no issues until yesterday.

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

5) Was anything recently done in area of JB Fuse Panel or JBE Connectors (Black & Blue) below fuse panel?

2015-01-19: AT shifter harness failed - re-soldered wiring in center console (I am fairly good with soldering)
2025-01-05: carplay (my12volt) installation - tried to stay away as distant as possible from Fuse Panels, etc

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

As you state, if engine continues to run normally (PT-CAN communication & Fuel Pump operation continue) but you had K-CAN communication faults and components connected to Modules on K-CAN cease to function (KOMBI, IHKA, Radio, etc.) that suggests LACK of K-CAN communication is causing "dead" mode & NOT Voltage Supply or ground issues.

Answers to questions above are needed before ASSuming anything, however.
If you have ISTA, search "K-CAN" with filter ONLY for SSP wiring diagrams, & you will see the Modules on K-CAN, & can view JBE Connectors X14271 & X14272 for K-CAN Pin/Socket Locations. I would disconnect X14271 (Blue) & inspect Pins/Sockets #10 (Green wire) & #46 (Orange/Green); then inspect X14272 (Black) Pins/Sockets #10, 12, 11, 30, 29, 31, 47, & 48.
George

X14271 & X14272 connections/pins "looks" good.

[Mike K]

Bluetooth dongles are a mixed bag. If I run mine while driving and using the Torque app, all works great. But I can't leave it plugged in or I get battery drain warnings, etc..

[POBEP]

update.

took it out for a drive this morning. all good.
scanned with ISTA, got list of codes


opened DME box:
- dry, no signs of water
- as expected, bunch of butt connectors as result of PCV wiring recal

started engine with cover open:
- all good, no issues

reassembled cowl: now have various components go in-an-out
- cluster is most noticeable, keeps resetting and shows a DOT (like someone fooled with mileage readings).
- another one is climate control, also keep resetting

crap ...

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by POBEP

update... reassembled cowl: now have various components go in-an-out
- cluster is most noticeable, keeps resetting and shows a DOT (like someone fooled with mileage readings).
- another one is climate control, also keep resetting
crap ...

Crap you say? My diagnosis differs.

First, what I believe is NOT a correct diagnosis, & WHY:
1) Such an issue COULD be caused by failure of Voltage Supply or Chassis Ground to the relevant Control Modules. That is NOT the case here because:
a) You have power to the JB Fuse Panel via X13020. We know that because the K6300 Relay (on JB PCB) activates F37 & F38, allowing the DME to be fully-powered & the engine to Start & run.
b) The CAS Fuses F36 & F55 are powered. Those Fuses power the CAS Module & the CAS Module must operate to activate the Starter.
c) The 30G relay on the JB Panel is powered & functioning. We know that 'cuz the Fuel Pump has to operate for the engine to start & run. Fuel Pump is powered via fuse F70, which is switched by KL30G.

That strongly suggests the issue is in the K-CAN Bus (Green & Orange/Green twisted pair wires). Your Fault Memory printout shows 40 faults, almost all of which are communication issues involving the K-CAN Bus. 39 of those faults are NOT currently present when the Scan occurred. I am NOT aware of any wiring related to the K-CAN Bus that exists UNDER the hood.

If ANYONE knows of K-CAN wiring under Hood, please advise. If you have Park Distance Control, 4 Ultrasonic sensors ARE in the front bumper, and that Module is on the K-CAN Bus. If you have CA (Comfort Access), an issue in the door handle MAY be involved.

Generally, if there is a short in either K-CAN wire, including a short inside one of the Modules on the K-CAN circuit, that can knock out some or all of the K-CAN Bus communications. The PT-CAN (Powertrain) Bus on which the DME & AutoTrans Modules communicate is still operative. Very little likelihood of anything amiss in the E-Box. You do show some CAS Faults related to such things as Brake Switch signal & Gear Selector (P/N) Position. However, if you are able to crank Starter when START button is pressed with foot on brake, the CAS Module is functioning correctly, along with receipt of those inputs (safety switches).

There are TWO "Intermediate Connectors" other than the connectors at the various K-CAN Modules which bear checking:
1) X275 Left Seat Module connector, under seat;
2) X1716 located on floor, left side of Driver Footwell.
There is also an X1276 Trailer Module Connector in Cargo bay near battery. I will attach ISTA ScreenPrints to NEXT Post so you can see K-CAN Bus wiring & connector Locations. If you have an issue with your ISTA installation, as far as being able to view SSP wiring diagrams, or finding the "K-CAN" wiring info, please ask, or see pdf: "ISTA as Shop Manual" attached to this post.

As stated in Prior Post, I would BEGIN by disconnecting the Black & Blue Connectors, X14272 & X14271 on front of JBE Module under the JB Fuse Panel, & check the Pins & Sockets associated with the Green & Orange/Green K-CAN bus wires. If nothing is found there, then check the other two intermediate connectors listed above.
Please let us know what you find,
George
George

[gbalthrop]

Attached are ISTA ScreenPrints related to prior post, K-CAN Bus on 2009 328i E91.
George

[jsunma]

Has your car had the battery cable recall done? (the long cable that goes between the battery and the fuse box)

[POBEP]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Crap you say? My diagnosis differs.

thank you

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

First, what I believe is NOT a correct diagnosis, & WHY:
1) Such an issue COULD be caused by failure of Voltage Supply or Chassis Ground to the relevant Control Modules. That is NOT the case here because:
a) You have power to the JB Fuse Panel via X13020. We know that because the K6300 Relay (on JB PCB) activates F37 & F38, allowing the DME to be fully-powered & the engine to Start & run.
b) The CAS Fuses F36 & F55 are powered. Those Fuses power the CAS Module & the CAS Module must operate to activate the Starter.
c) The 30G relay on the JB Panel is powered & functioning. We know that 'cuz the Fuel Pump has to operate for the engine to start & run. Fuel Pump is powered via fuse F70, which is switched by KL30G.

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

That strongly suggests the issue is in the K-CAN Bus (Green & Orange/Green twisted pair wires). Your Fault Memory printout shows 40 faults, almost all of which are communication issues involving the K-CAN Bus. 39 of those faults are NOT currently present when the Scan occurred. I am NOT aware of any wiring related to the K-CAN Bus that exists UNDER the hood.

If ANYONE knows of K-CAN wiring under Hood, please advise. If you have Park Distance Control, 4 Ultrasonic sensors ARE in the front bumper, and that Module is on the K-CAN Bus. If you have CA (Comfort Access), an issue in the door handle MAY be involved.

thanks, it took me almost a day to realize that I do no see any Green & Orange/Green twisted pair wires in the area where I was focusing.
I have no CA and no PDC.
I closed the hood

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Generally, if there is a short in either K-CAN wire, including a short inside one of the Modules on the K-CAN circuit, that can knock out some or all of the K-CAN Bus communications. The PT-CAN (Powertrain) Bus on which the DME & AutoTrans Modules communicate is still operative. Very little likelihood of anything amiss in the E-Box. You do show some CAS Faults related to such things as Brake Switch signal & Gear Selector (P/N) Position. However, if you are able to crank Starter when START button is pressed with foot on brake, the CAS Module is functioning correctly, along with receipt of those inputs (safety switches).

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

There are TWO "Intermediate Connectors" other than the connectors at the various K-CAN Modules which bear checking:
1) X275 Left Seat Module connector, under seat;
2) X1716 located on floor, left side of Driver Footwell.
There is also an X1276 Trailer Module Connector in Cargo bay near battery. I will attach ISTA ScreenPrints to NEXT Post so you can see K-CAN Bus wiring & connector Locations. If you have an issue with your ISTA installation, as far as being able to view SSP wiring diagrams, or finding the "K-CAN" wiring info, please ask, or see pdf: "ISTA as Shop Manual" attached to this post.

I managed to find K-CAN diagram in ISTA & locate X14272 & X14271 connectors.

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

As stated in Prior Post, I would BEGIN by disconnecting the Black & Blue Connectors, X14272 & X14271 on front of JBE Module under the JB Fuse Panel, & check the Pins & Sockets associated with the Green & Orange/Green K-CAN bus wires. If nothing is found there, then check the other two intermediate connectors listed above.

I unplugged X14272 & X14271, performed brief visual, found nothing suspicions and reconnected.
I'll repeat tomorrow and perform close inspection of all K-CAN pins/sockets as well as X275 & X1716

[POBEP]

Originally Posted by jsunma

Has your car had the battery cable recall done? (the long cable that goes between the battery and the fuse box)

Yes

[POBEP]

gbalthrop

found wet carpet in the corner, right above X1716 connector.

"seems" to be first time - no mold / no smell - just that corner.

hopefully just a door leak, and water made its way up to the foam Thu-Fri after Wed rain

[POBEP]

24h update (since drying X1716 connector) - all KCAN issues are gone.

carpet foam still wet-ish, keeping it off the surface.
I will continue with cheap "heater down" + "cat litter in a sock" drying effort