[M3to335]

Yesterday a buddy of mine rented out VIR for an awesome day of open lapping and test & tuning. The weather was 35 degrees in the morning then ramped up to around 65 in the afternoon. I filled her up with 100 octane in the morning and ran with the standard 90% torque values. 7 Laps into it, the limp-tastic adventures began, just a they did earlier this month.

I've come to grips with the fact that the majority uses their tunes only for daily driving or for the occasional quick 1/4 mile pull. I suppose to keep things in perspective most (if not all) tunes were fine tuned on a dyno and local roads. None of those conditions are anywhere near what you see on the track. But for the handful of hardcore guys, I'd love to see a track specific map created. Of course it wouldnt be as agreesive but thats fine. Just something to give us an edge.

One interesting thing to note. My car with downpipes, no cats, and an intake, running stock, was hitting about 10~11psi max and holding right along side the no-mod SST car (which sounds about right). At first I thought limpping out was my lack of a bigger IC (running temps up/pulling timing), then I realized the no-mod SST and JB3 cars were fine.

I dunno, maybe someone can chime in with their experience. But I have a feeling Im one of the very few people running 3.2 at a track right now. To be honet hitting the track is the only reason I modified my car. I could care less about my 9 mile drive to work I do once or twice a week.

To wrap things up, I must say that for day to day driving, I absolutely love the PROcede. Im still happy as a clam and recommend this tune to everyone who asks. Just as I did yesterday to a fellow 135 owner I've been on board since the very begining and dont plan on changing over any time soon. Its come a long way, and I hope to see it continue to do so.

[Jeff335i]

Considering that many stock 335i's can't last 3 laps without limping I think you did great with a tune!

[jadeddjay]

oil cooler?

v3 with user torque at like... 70%?

[OpenFlash]

There's been a bunch of people who have run the new maps at the track now that tracks are finally opening up. Myself included. Best bet would be to read the code and see what it is. Could be a boost leak. Could be misfire. Won't know until the code is read. In general, the tune should be perfectly trackworthy assumin the rest of the car is sound.

Shiv

[Kbueno]

Are you certain it's the tune? Not one of the other countless reasons these damn cars go to limp mode. 7 laps sounds like hot temps? Did you pull codes?

[TMR]

What stage map you running? How are your plugs? Like the other guy said... oil cooler?

[M3to335]

No codes pulled, sorry. I immediately put the bypass plugs in and ran stock the rest of the day. No limps after that, which would rule out the car. Yes I have an oil cooler.

I'll check the plugs this weekend and pull codes next time out for sure.

[jadeddjay]

but do you have an upgraded oilcooler?

[PROcede_JB3]

In your original post you said JB3 cars weren't limping. Did they have similar mods as you (the only difference being the tune)?

[M3to335]

Originally Posted by jadeddjay

but do you have an upgraded oilcooler?

No sir.

Originally Posted by PROcede_JB3

In your original post you said JB3 cars weren't limping. Did they have similar mods as you (the only difference being the tune)?

Correct, that car (which ran both tunes on different days) was a tune only setup.

[M3to335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

There's been a bunch of people who have run the new maps at the track now that tracks are finally opening up. Myself included. Best bet would be to read the code and see what it is. Could be a boost leak. Could be misfire. Won't know until the code is read. In general, the tune should be perfectly trackworthy assumin the rest of the car is sound.

Shiv

Good to hear there are other folks out there. Who can you think of off the top of your head and what sort of setup do they have?

[Jeller]

Would it be best to turn down the user torque to something like 80% or lower on road corse/track days?

Last year 2 friends with procedes tracked and were throwing CELs. I am concerned with tracking this year myself with the procede installed.

Any one else have any thoughts/advice?

[Vudoo4u2]

Originally Posted by M3to335

Good to hear there are other folks out there. Who can you think of off the top of your head and what sort of setup do they have?

which stage map were you running?

[OpenFlash]

There are only a few faults that are more likely to occur in a track day than on the street. One is misfire. Another is over-temp. The other is caused by boost target not reached. Misfire can be fixed by always running fresh plugs. Over-temp can be caused by monitoring oil temp and cooling off when necessary. And the boost target not reached fault can be fixed by making sure you have absolutely no leaks in the system. The most common leak is caused by boost gauge install when the "T" joint is loose/un-tiewrapped.

Running a stock car at a track requires a pretty sound car. Running a car on a track that makes 100hp more than stock requires a perfectly running car. Good plugs, no leaks, etc,. This does not mean that the car needs to be fully modded. Even a stock car with just a tune should do just fine as long as temps are kept in check.

If you find yourself developing problems at the track, STOP. Figure out what is wrong and only then go back to running your car. If you have to run your car, drop your User Torque setting down by 40%. This will drop boost by 3-4psi and will place less stress on the ignition and cooling system. It will also make it easier for the turbos to reach their boost target in case there is a leak in the system. Chances are, this will eliminate the limp problem.

But even if you eliminated the limp with the lower UT values, the underlying problem is STILL there and should be addressed. So use a scan tool and find out what the cause of the original limp was. With the BT software now available, it should be a must-have for anyone who tracks their car.

And if you want to run a tune on the track, do yourself and your car a favor and run a strong mixture of unleaded race gas. 50/50 should be fine. On a track, a tuned car will generate heat at a much faster rate than it can be dissipated. So the extra octane can be considered cheap insurance against knock.

My 2c
Shiv

[M3WC]

Limp modes in a modded 335i while tracking, is a fact of life.

Upgraded oil cooler would help, check out the VK motorwerkes upgraded oil cooler.

Honestly if you plan doing a lot a track days, this car can be a bitch. I am talking road courses not 1/4 crap.

[M3to335]

Originally Posted by Vudoo4u2

which stage map were you running?

Stage 2

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

There are only a few faults that are more likely to occur in a track day than on the street. One is misfire. Another is over-temp. The other is caused by boost target not reached. Misfire can be fixed by always running fresh plugs. Over-temp can be caused by monitoring oil temp and cooling off when necessary. And the boost target not reached fault can be fixed by making sure you have absolutely no leaks in the system. The most common leak is caused by boost gauge install when the "T" joint is loose/un-tiewrapped.

Running a stock car at a track requires a pretty sound car. Running a car on a track that makes 100hp more than stock requires a perfectly running car. Good plugs, no leaks, etc,. This does not mean that the car needs to be fully modded. Even a stock car with just a tune should do just fine as long as temps are kept in check.

If you find yourself developing problems at the track, STOP. Figure out what is wrong and only then go back to running your car. If you have to run your car, drop your User Torque setting down by 40%. This will drop boost by 3-4psi and will place less stress on the ignition and cooling system. It will also make it easier for the turbos to reach their boost target in case there is a leak in the system. Chances are, this will eliminate the limp problem.

But even if you eliminated the limp with the lower UT values, the underlying problem is STILL there and should be addressed. So use a scan tool and find out what the cause of the original limp was. With the BT software now available, it should be a must-have for anyone who tracks their car.

And if you want to run a tune on the track, do yourself and your car a favor and run a strong mixture of unleaded race gas. 50/50 should be fine. On a track, a tuned car will generate heat at a much faster rate than it can be dissipated. So the extra octane can be considered cheap insurance against knock.

My 2c
Shiv

All good advice, thanks for chiming in.

I was running straight 100 octane with the tune, so thats OK. Oil temps were the same on and off the tune. Can the plugs or boost leak be an issue when the car was fine for 2hrs without the tune? I guess anything is possible and it wont stop me from checking. Also, after the first limp I pitted in, turned the car off, back on and switched to map 2 with 60% UT values (not a 40% drop though). That didnt work either.

Around town the PROcede is rock solid as always. So I guess it wont be until Aprils PCA event that I can attempt to induce a limp and get a look at it with the BT software.

[kenneth]

Last year a friend and I tracked our cars, he has a coupe and I a sedan. I was completely stock and he had the afe DCI and an oil catch can, stock otherwise. We both have the OEM oil cooler, but he pulled limps while I was fine. One thing he mentioned to me was that he noticed his temps were up after the oil catch can install.

So he was running higher temps, but he was not pushing harder than me.

[dlbrooks18]

I think it's inevitable that a piggy will cause limp modes at the track even with upgraded FMIC and/or oil cooler and whatever else.. IMO a flash is better suited for running laps

[335e92tx]

Ran my JB3 at the track with the initial version (1.0) and factory OC and on the same pump93 I always use. Never had any probs with limbs. Probably had a total of 8 twenty min sessions. Was not really flooring it too often - was right at the limit of keeping the rfts on the road anyway.

[e90southfl]

Originally Posted by M3to335

No codes pulled, sorry. I immediately put the bypass plugs in and ran stock the rest of the day. No limps after that, which would rule out the car. Yes I have an oil cooler.

I'll check the plugs this weekend and pull codes next time out for sure.

From personal exprience, our cars cannot handle a tune while doing road course events. The car club I usually run with has 45-60 minute sessions and if I am running hard, I am just staying under the point where the car would go into limp mode, with oil temps running between 285-290. I am not sure you noticed, but even running stock you will notice that your first 3-5 laps the car is much more powerful. After that, the computer starts pulling timing and slows things down. If you do a search, BUBBLES posted some data logs he got while running at a track event. With a tune, this is just going to happen faster. I am actually looking forward to the release of the BMW Performance tune with the additional cooling capabilities since this will have the biggest impact on maintaining power levels while driving hard. There is a reason BMW is increasing cooling capabilities with a mild tune.

[Nikolas]

Cooling components are probably the most important factor at a track to avoid these problems. Honestly, if tracking was your number one desire with this car, I would have spent the money on suspension and brake upgrades. Those two modifications would have made for much faster laps than any engine modification ever will.

[OpenFlash]

We've tested the PROcede is two 12 hr endurance races. No issues. But that was at 12-13psi with additional cooling mods/race prep. Bunch of other people have done track days (including myself) with no issue during 15-20 min sessions.

If:
-Ambient temps are warm
-You are making more power/more boost
-you are running longer sessions

Then look into additional cooling mods (upgraded oil cool, radiator, fmic, ducting, etc,.)

If you don't think heat was the issue for the limp, read the code. Could be something completely unrelated and easy to solve.

Shiv