[doughboy]

In my efforts to track down spring part numbers fitted to early M sport E90/E91's 335is' I need some VIN numbers !!

Only the last 7 digits please!!!

If you have any of the above up to March 2007, can you help?

Thanks......

[doughboy]

Hah! Genius! Found one!

If you find the car you're looking for on the BMW Aproved used website search, it tells you the reg in the ad:

AND THE VIN NUMBER THE EXPLORER ADDRESS BAR!!

see here: http://bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/auc/car_detai...VB720X0KM95377

Useful to know!!!

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by doughboy

In my efforts to track down spring part numbers fitted to early M sport E90/E91's 335is' I need some VIN numbers !!

Only the last 7 digits please!!!

If you have any of the above up to March 2007, can you help?

Thanks......

Careful though, because BMW use a minimum of THREE different springs for each model, depending on the specification. You need to consult the car's specification, and match it very closely to yours, before consulting the BMW spring table...

I'll give you an example - taking my car's specification, I use a spring part number ending in 285... if I had a sunroof however as the ONLY difference in spec, the spring number would end in 286 to account the extra weight and change in centre of gravity...

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

Careful though, because BMW use a minimum of THREE different springs for each model, depending on the specification. You need to consult the car's specification, and match it very closely to yours, before consulting the BMW spring table...

I'll give you an example - taking my car's specification, I use a spring part number ending in 285... if I had a sunroof however as the ONLY difference in spec, the spring number would end in 286 to account the extra weight and change in centre of gravity...

Thank Tony......this is getting interesting.......I suspected what you are saying, but am unable to find any used 2006 335i's with my spec. Of course aftermarket kits don't do this, even Hartge with their tough TUV testing requirements only offer 1 kit for 335i E90 and E91.

Mine is fairly full loaded and manual, but the models I have found are pretty basic (and auto's).

From the E90 335i VIN (KM95377) the EPK/spring table at my dealer gives:

Front spring: 31336767378
Rear spring: 33536767345
vehicle type VB72 (whatever that is?)

The very similar spec E91 335i VIN (FG43061) gives:

Front spring: 31336767379
Rear spring: 33536773597
vehicle type VS72

Both cars at this age have identical dampers all round.

1. What is the 'vehicle type code'?

2. How can I find the spring types used on a more option-loaded vehicle?

I don't want to keep mithering the parts guy too much, who is very helpful at present...

My thinking is to fit the E90 springs, which are visually a tad lower. I won't use the extra 100kg load rating of the E91 anyway.

Up to March 2007, the m sport specific dampers were the same across all E90 and E91, all engines from 318 to 335d. This IMO is when the M sport kits were good and hard (like my 2006 330i) before they bowed to press opinion and started softening them up. Now they're all softer and running load of different dampers across the range (m sport now uses the sam dampers as the poor road versions etc) they now offer the BMW performance kit for those who want more (not for E91 though).

Interestingy the single version BMW performance kit (33500444832) uses identical dampers and bump stops for ALL E90, E90N & E92 models from 320 to 335 i and d. Only the springs are VIN specific. So it seems that it has now taken the across-the-board position of the original M sport kits???

I'm waiting for the full parts lists on the above kit to see what is in it...

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by doughboy

even Hartge with their tough TUV testing requirements only offer 1 kit for 335i E90 and E91.

That's correct - their kit is designed for the E90/1 335i, and doesn't take into account the loading characteristics between the two models. However, the springs are stiffer than standard, and so will cope with the E91s extra loading. It's still not the ideal solution, but then the only way to do that is to have custom coilovers and springs...

Originally Posted by doughboy

From the E90 335i VIN (KM95377) the EPK/spring table at my dealer gives:

Front spring: 31336767378
Rear spring: 33536767345
vehicle type VB72 (whatever that is?)

The very similar spec E91 335i VIN (FG43061) gives:

Front spring: 31336767379
Rear spring: 33536773597
vehicle type VS72

Both cars at this age have identical dampers all round.

1. What is the 'vehicle type code'?

That's an internal BMW code - the guys I spoke to don't have a list of all the vehicle types.

Originally Posted by doughboy

2. How can I find the spring types used on a more option-loaded vehicle?

I don't want to keep mithering the parts guy too much, who is very helpful at present...

The only way to find out is to use that spring table at the parts department. Give him your VIN number - he'll bring up the spring table. The spring table has an option to select, or deselect, various optional extras (like sunroof, rear blinds etc etc). Once the correct options have been entered, the table will then give the corresponding front and rear springs.

Originally Posted by doughboy

My thinking is to fit the E90 springs, which are visually a tad lower. I won't use the extra 100kg load rating of the E91 anyway.

What is your aim in changing the springs? Is it for visual effect, or a more sporting handling balance? If it's for handling reasons, are you concerned about the amount of roll induced understeer that you are getting? If that is so, I suggest you do the Hartge ARBs first (which I believe you've been considering) and then going from there. You might find that the change in handling balance with the different ARBs is exactly what you are looking for.

Thereafter, if you then want to firm up the suspension more, I would strongly suggest looking at a separate Bilstein solution (which Kevin and I are working on right now and will have available in a week or two). This solution will be using adjustable coilovers, not setup for track use necessarily, but to offer a much more sophisticated damping solution, combined with progressive springs that retain as much primary and secondary bump absorption as possible, whilst giving tactile feedback and secure handling.

Originally Posted by doughboy

Up to March 2007, the m sport specific dampers were the same across all E90 and E91, all engines from 318 to 335d. This IMO is when the M sport kits were good and hard (like my 2006 330i) before they bowed to press opinion and started softening them up. Now they're all softer and running load of different dampers across the range (m sport now uses the sam dampers as the poor road versions etc) they now offer the BMW performance kit for those who want more (not for E91 though).

Interestingy the single version BMW performance kit (33500444832) uses identical dampers and bump stops for ALL E90, E90N & E92 models from 320 to 335 i and d. Only the springs are VIN specific. So it seems that it has now taken the across-the-board position of the original M sport kits???

I'm waiting for the full parts lists on the above kit to see what is in it...

This is my issue with BMW - in order to save costs, they specified largely the same damper across the entire E9x range, save for one or two noticeable differences. The springs and bump stops are how BMW tuned each suspension setup to each individual car. The Performance Range can't possibly be developed to encompass every single car and option range, as it would cost far too much, and so BMW again have adopted the blanket approach... the result is that the Performance suspension will work better with one particular type of car (as a guess I would suggest that is the 330i), and not necessarily as well with something like a 330d (which has a heavier engine and therefore greater front bias)

The early E9x dampers were made by Boge/Sachs - and they are very cheap, and not particularly sophisticated. There is a degree of variance in valving between each damper set that results in an inconsistency of damping over time.

Alpina's are renowned for their subtle approach to suspension, and that is because they canvass the ENTIRE range of BMW parts, dampers from the 5 series for instance, springs from a 7 series etc etc, to create a BMW OEM-sourced, but yet bespoke, suspension system for the Alpina range of cars....

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

What is your aim in changing the springs? Is it for visual effect, or a more sporting handling balance? If it's for handling reasons, are you concerned about the amount of roll induced understeer that you are getting? If that is so, I suggest you do the Hartge ARBs first (which I believe you've been considering) and then going from there. You might find that the change in handling balance with the different ARBs is exactly what you are looking for.

Handling wise, if the spring / damping combo was like me previous E90, I would have just fitted the ARBs. My 330i 'felt' like it turned around the centre of the car i.e. my seating position, but the turning point of new E91 seems to change throughout a turn because the car changes attitude so much for such tiny inputs of throttle and steering. (maybe this is more down to ARBs than I credit?)

Also, visually, the E90 (and old E91's) had a subtle nose down stance, which the (my) current E91 doesn't have, so yes a 1/2" drop on the nose would be nice too. BMW, in setting the car 'level' have given it a visually larger gap between front tyre/wing and rear tyre/wing making it seem worse.

My car has a much more noticeable front / rear pitching under braking and acceleration than my e90 ever did. Pull away at the lights and you can see the bonnet lift / rear view drop. It also 'wallows' slightly in turns after direction changes at nowhere near 10/10ths. I don't think ARBs will address these issues???

Thus I want to in effect, recreate the older model spring / damper combo prior to fitting ARBs. Using standard black OEM parts no one need ever know. The BMW parts are fairly cheap too.

I don't want to go the coil-over aftermarket route, just make it feel like my 330i felt. No firmer than that, it was spot on. After 50k miles it was as good as new. With the ARBs it would be perfect IMO.

My thinking about using the E90 springs is that if people like Hartge offer 1 kit for both E91 & E90, then using the same ride height / springs / bump stops etc for both must be physically OK and safe for the car. So if I get springs for a similarly equipped 335i E90 these should suffice for my E91.

My logic is simple, i think,:

3 years ago M sport dampers WERE markedly firmer (and a single part number for all means getting the right part is easy)
3 years ago M sport spring rates WERE markedly firmer on E90/E91 (a bit lower on E90 too)

Therefore by fitting appropriate parts from mid 06 it MUST be better (better for what I want) than now?

Currently (from 06/2008) the E90 335i uses Bilstein units front and rear? Are these any better quality?

Edit:

Pic added of side view below for reference....

[doughboy]

bump.... any help oh wise one...?

[NFS]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Up to March 2007, the m sport specific dampers were the same across all E90 and E91, all engines from 318 to 335d. This IMO is when the M sport kits were good and hard (like my 2006 330i) before they bowed to press opinion and started softening them up. Now they're all softer and running load of different dampers across the range (m sport now uses the sam dampers as the poor road versions etc) they now offer the BMW performance kit for those who want more (not for E91 though).

This is good info. I had no idea that BMW had softened the msport suspension settings. Backward step in my opinion.

Originally Posted by doughboy

Therefore by fitting appropriate parts from mid 06 it MUST be better (better for what I want) than now?

I can't offer any technical advice, but this sounds perfectly logical and I can't see what would be 'wrong' with it as a concept. You would simply be converting your suspension back to the OEM standard for 2006.

It's difficult to imagine that it would make things any worse. But I suspect the only way to find out would be to do it and accept that you may need to revert back if not happy.

If you really want that 06 suspension feel I'd be happy to swap cars with you

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Handling wise, if the spring / damping combo was like me previous E90, I would have just fitted the ARBs. My 330i 'felt' like it turned around the centre of the car i.e. my seating position, but the turning point of new E91 seems to change throughout a turn because the car changes attitude so much for such tiny inputs of throttle and steering. (maybe this is more down to ARBs than I credit?)

Right - first of all, your MSport LCI car is running exactly the same suspension settings as a non-LCI MSport 335i from March 2007 onwards. The dampers are the same, the secondary bump stops are the same... the antiroll bars are even the same item from a 2006 E91 335i !! Yes, BMW are now using the MSport dampers for the "poor road" versions and the "official unmarked" (ie police cars), but actually they haven't changed the MSport dampers (they've changed the other dampers to use the MSport versions, if that makes sense!)

The only difference between the feel of your 'early 2006' car and the new generation cars are the spring rates, and the early MSport dampers which were made by Boge/Sachs... they changed to Bilstein in March 2007, and these dampers have a much better damping consistency and valving characteristics.

The new LCI car runs a wider track both front and rear, but still uses the same ARB as both the 2006 and 2008 model 335i. Quite why you're feeling this wallowing in the suspension I'm not really sure. To be honest, it shouldn't be the dampers making any difference, as the primary ride and handling is largely dictated by the springs and secondary springs (ie bump stops).

Given that the bump stops haven't changed, that leads me to suspect the springs are the main culprit of the difference in handling balance. The LCI cars have been made to be a tad more compliant and refined, perhaps at the expense of the last degree in cornering feel. Certainly it shouldn't feel as bad as you're describing though!

So - bottom line is, you've got two options...

1) Replace your existing springs with the original springs from a pre-March 2007 E91 335i. To do this, you'll need a VIN number of a suitable donor car, then you need to get onto your local friendly dealer and bombard him for information. With the donor car VIN number, he will be able to bring up the options list for the spring table - as long as you tell him everything you have your new car, he should be able to give you the correct spring part number for the same spec car, but pre-March 2007 version.

I personally don't think you should change the dampers - there's no need to and they won't be the items making the primary difference you're feeling. However, if you must go back to original Boge/Sachs shocks, then the part numbers are the following - FL MSport - 31318036553... FR Msport - 31318036554... RL and RR MSport - 33528036026 (you'll need two)

If you are going to change the springs, then I would also suggest you replace the front bump stops with the items from a 335xi - these bump stops are a little firmer and sharpen up the front end a tad - it's what I'm using on my car (and the Alpinas on the B3) and I found a very positive difference - part number is 31336783481 and you'll need two of them

2) The second option I would consider is actually going aftermarket - not necessarily to adjustable coilovers, but a specially developed and matched suspension setup for your car. I am thinking the Bilstein B12 suspension kit, Bilstein part number SE5-C621 - this comprises the Bilstein B12 monotube dampers, with a very high-quality custom matching H&R spring. Cost is around £850 including VAT for the dampers and springs.

I have driven a car with this exact setup - it was a E90 335i saloon from early 2008... and it was really very very good. The damping characteristics were MUCH better than OEM - primary ride was firm but jolt free, and the secondary damping gave the car a lot more control than standard. If it weren't for the fact I'm using the Alpina setup, I would have gone for this B12 kit myself.

Originally Posted by doughboy

My car has a much more noticeable front / rear pitching under braking and acceleration than my e90 ever did. Pull away at the lights and you can see the bonnet lift / rear view drop. It also 'wallows' slightly in turns after direction changes at nowhere near 10/10ths. I don't think ARBs will address these issues???

No, the ARBs will have NO effect on front/rear pitch and dive. The ARBs are only working on lateral forces, effectively making the car corner flatter as it requires greater force to flex the ARBs from side to side. The pitch/dive effect you are having is largely to do with the springs.

Originally Posted by doughboy

Thus I want to in effect, recreate the older model spring / damper combo prior to fitting ARBs. Using standard black OEM parts no one need ever know. The BMW parts are fairly cheap too.

I understand this - there is some sense in keeping to OEM BMW parts. This is especially true if you are only buying replacement BMW springs - the extra cost of something like the Bilstein kit is excessive in comparison. However, if you wanted to do the dampers too, then I think you'd do far better and get something like the Bilstein kit (or even the Hartge kit, although the rear spring rates are a little too firm for my liking).

Thereafter, the Hartge ARBs would be ideal. I seem to remember you're quite far away from the Heathrow area... if you weren't doing anything this coming Monday, and you fancy a drive down the M40 to Heathrow, you can meet me at Kevin Bird's and have a drive of both the Hartge car and mine... that will give you some idea of how the car feels with a sorted suspension and ARBs.


Hope all of this above helps!!!

[doughboy]

Thats all great info... thanks a lot..

So the 2006 m sport dampers (across the range ones) are no different in spec to the post march 2007 types when E90 and E91 started using different parts? It was just a make change then? I've never driven a post march 07 E91, so I don't know how it felt. My only reference is my Mar 06 E90, I also drove a mid 06 E91 (320d) and that felt similar to my E90.

I've got all the m-sport part numbers written down for:

06 E90 - same dampers as E91
06 E91 - same dampers as E90

07 E90 - new dampers
07 E91 - new dampers (not same as E90)

09 E90 - different numbers again
09 E91 - different again, still E91 specific

So in 07, the E91 went on its own way - this is why i'm reluctant to buy the 07 parts for a E91, because I don't know what they feel like.

However, i've looked at the BMW performance kit, which (although E90 only officialy) is £690 inc vat for:

4 dampers (common for all E90)
4 car specific yellow springs (from spring table)
4 different bump stops
front arb and mounts, still 26.5mm? (wouldn't order that anyway, thus reducing price)
all top & bottom spring cups
guide supports
nuts, bolts etc

The kit has 1 part number (without springs) and you add the specific springs at order. I have the EPK breakdown for the kit - but i've left it on my desk at work! Note there is no rear ARB, which seems daft to me, but i suppose they don't want to sell kits that make the car more rear biased?

This seems a reasonable figure to me, with the following benefits:

1. It's no increase in my insurance as its a manufacturers kit (confirmed)
2. Again, re sale would be better with an OEM kit

I am struggling to find any reviews of the UK performance suspension kits, plenty in the US but there's is different for sure.

Thanks again for your time E92fan.

BTW - very kind offer to visit Birds, but I can't make it Monday. I'm down at Elstree on Tuesday, but too busy to get away...

[dxb335d]

Tone you are a complete and utter encyclopedia of the Bmw 3series.

Forget wikipedia, its Tonypedia.

[DaveC]

Your car does look a lot lower at the rear than my 330 E91.

I dont think any BMW should wallow and change attitude the way you describe, have you bounce tested each corner to make sure you dont have a faulty damper?

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by DaveC

Your car does look a lot lower at the rear than my 330 E91.

I dont think any BMW should wallow and change attitude the way you describe, have you bounce tested each corner to make sure you dont have a faulty damper?

Tried that. I'm 12 stone and i can't make any corner move by my weight pushing down with my hands.

Standing on the door cill i can rock the car, more than my previous 330 however which didn't move.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Thats all great info... thanks a lot..

So the 2006 m sport dampers (across the range ones) are no different in spec to the post march 2007 types when E90 and E91 started using different parts? It was just a make change then? I've never driven a post march 07 E91, so I don't know how it felt. My only reference is my Mar 06 E90, I also drove a mid 06 E91 (320d) and that felt similar to my E90.

I've got all the m-sport part numbers written down for:

06 E90 - same dampers as E91
06 E91 - same dampers as E90

07 E90 - new dampers
07 E91 - new dampers (not same as E90)

09 E90 - different numbers again
09 E91 - different again, still E91 specific

So in 07, the E91 went on its own way - this is why i'm reluctant to buy the 07 parts for a E91, because I don't know what they feel like.

However, i've looked at the BMW performance kit, which (although E90 only officialy) is £690 inc vat for:

4 dampers (common for all E90)
4 car specific yellow springs (from spring table)
4 different bump stops
front arb and mounts, still 26.5mm? (wouldn't order that anyway, thus reducing price)
all top & bottom spring cups
guide supports
nuts, bolts etc

The kit has 1 part number (without springs) and you add the specific springs at order. I have the EPK breakdown for the kit - but i've left it on my desk at work! Note there is no rear ARB, which seems daft to me, but i suppose they don't want to sell kits that make the car more rear biased?

This seems a reasonable figure to me, with the following benefits:

1. It's no increase in my insurance as its a manufacturers kit (confirmed)
2. Again, re sale would be better with an OEM kit

I am struggling to find any reviews of the UK performance suspension kits, plenty in the US but there's is different for sure.

Thanks again for your time E92fan.

BTW - very kind offer to visit Birds, but I can't make it Monday. I'm down at Elstree on Tuesday, but too busy to get away...

Has anyone got experience or comments on the BMW performance suspension kits?...