[Slikpak]

Im planning on going to willow springs may 8th and was wondering if some people that have been to a track could give me a heads up on what to expect and any tips like what tires would last and how fast the brakes will fade.

Please dont eat me alive if im being a noob.

[The HACK]

1. Bring lots of drinking water. Drink water regularly during the day. If you're not emptying your bladder every 45 minutes to an hour, you are dehydrated. Dehydration is the bane of track driving, it robs you of your ability to concentrate. Willow Springs is in the middle of the desert (Mojave) and is incredibly dry during late spring/early summer.

2. It gets very windy in the afternoon. Enough to blow over ease-up tents weighed down by tires at all 4 corners. Stay out of the wind, it'll suck the moisture out of your system so fast you won't believe it.

What organization are you going with? On the schedule it just shows "Test & Tune."

[peopleontheradio]

i would also like to know info about this...not trying to thread jack but maybe adding some questions the OP might wanna know also...

whats recommend for the car after the track?
oil change?
new pads?
what matnience do you guys who go to the track do after the track?

hopefully these can answer questions for you too slikpak..

[noro]

I would HIGHLY recommend putting in some ATE super blue fluid into your brake system. You are very likely to boil the brake fluid after about 10-20 laps. You will notice the longer brake travel you will need to achieve the same stopping.

Stock brakes and pads are fine for your 1st few events but as you get more serious you would want to get better pads.

I wouldn't go as far as changing the oil after every track day but if it becomes a routine you want to change it much more often than the 15K interval. Every 5K or so.

Eventually invest some money into a proper 4 point harness, you will notice a big improvement in the way you sense what the car is doing when you are strapped to the seat.

[Slikpak]

Thanks for the tips. I don't believe you have to go with an organization to go i am planning on calling them for more info so ill keep you posted on what the procedure is but i believe you pay 50 for a years membership and another 50 for the day. I had a friend just kinda show up and drive for the day i am planning on doing the same.

[lib]

IMO, make sure you have access to good instructors on at least your first few times out. They're extremely useful.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by noro

I would HIGHLY recommend putting in some ATE super blue fluid into your brake system. You are very likely to boil the brake fluid after about 10-20 laps. You will notice the longer brake travel you will need to achieve the same stopping.

Stock brakes and pads are fine for your 1st few events but as you get more serious you would want to get better pads.

I wouldn't go as far as changing the oil after every track day but if it becomes a routine you want to change it much more often than the 15K interval. Every 5K or so.

Eventually invest some money into a proper 4 point harness, you will notice a big improvement in the way you sense what the car is doing when you are strapped to the seat.

Not at Willow Springs. There's only 2 heavy braking zones and a ton of high speed brake cooling opportunities. If you can boil your brake fluid at WSIR, you're doing something WRONG.

There's a school of thought, that if you need to put harnesses into your car, you absolutely need to have at least a half cage to attach the harnesses to, otherwise they're worth less than stock belts. The stock bolt-in places for the typical Schroth Rallye3 harness isn't strong enough. I've seen a couple of pictures of aftermath of clip-in/bolt-in harnesses in track accidents and it's not pretty.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Slikpak

Thanks for the tips. I don't believe you have to go with an organization to go i am planning on calling them for more info so ill keep you posted on what the procedure is but i believe you pay 50 for a years membership and another 50 for the day. I had a friend just kinda show up and drive for the day i am planning on doing the same.

Then it is the test and tune. At this point, if you've never been on the track before with a well organized event, I can almost guarantee you will crash. People in the test and tune are typically serious racers with real hardware and will not be very forgiving with a rookie on the track, and they will ride you and ride you very hard.

Skip this event. If you want to do it right, sign up to do either one of these events:

http://www.cccbmwcca.org/BMW/High_Pe...ng_School.html

http://www.bmwclubla.org/media/docum...ation_2009.pdf

It's more expensive than $50, but this is a very dangerous "sport" and you need to do it right by starting out right with the right instruction.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by noro

I would HIGHLY recommend putting in some ATE super blue fluid into your brake system. You are very likely to boil the brake fluid after about 10-20 laps. You will notice the longer brake travel you will need to achieve the same stopping.

Stock brakes and pads are fine for your 1st few events but as you get more serious you would want to get better pads.

I wouldn't go as far as changing the oil after every track day but if it becomes a routine you want to change it much more often than the 15K interval. Every 5K or so.

Eventually invest some money into a proper 4 point harness, you will notice a big improvement in the way you sense what the car is doing when you are strapped to the seat.

Not to be argumentative..but I would suggest Motul RBF600 brake fluid over ATE Super Blue.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Then it is the test and tune. At this point, if you've never been on the track before with a well organized event, I can almost guarantee you will crash. People in the test and tune are typically serious racers with real hardware and will not be very forgiving with a rookie on the track, and they will ride you and ride you very hard.

Skip this event. If you want to do it right, sign up to do either one of these events:

http://www.cccbmwcca.org/BMW/High_Pe...ng_School.html

http://www.bmwclubla.org/media/docum...ation_2009.pdf

It's more expensive than $50, but this is a very dangerous "sport" and you need to do it right by starting out right with the right instruction.

I gotta support Mr. Hack here...I am an instructor for BMW Club, Audi Club, Hooked on Driving...and I would not just go to a test day if you have never been to a driving event before. That is NOT the place for your first event. Test days are days for advanced drivers to test stuff out...it is not a place for beginners..that dont know the line.

[325racer]

Originally Posted by S4to335

I gotta support Mr. Hack here...I am an instructor for BMW Club, Audi Club, Hooked on Driving...and I would not just go to a test day if you have never been to a driving event before. That is NOT the place for your first event. Test days are days for advanced drivers to test stuff out...it is not a place for beginners..that dont know the line.

+1000000

If I was at a test day and some noob was all over the track, I would have no problem giving them a gentle reminder to get out of the way.

Not to mention, Willow is probably the most dangerous track to be off line by a foot or two, as it's very unforgiving if you go off.

[Slikpak]

i don't know if i can afford to pay for a driving school i know its cheaper then totaling my car but i think a little caution can prevent that from happening. Im definitely going to look more into this. Not really planning on tracking my car and totaling it. I think i might just have to go to the track day and take heat for being a rookie. Hopefully someone will be nice enough to take me around once or twice to show me what it will be like.

[satakal]

Originally Posted by S4to335

I gotta support Mr. Hack here...I am an instructor for BMW Club, Audi Club, Hooked on Driving...and I would not just go to a test day if you have never been to a driving event before. That is NOT the place for your first event. Test days are days for advanced drivers to test stuff out...it is not a place for beginners..that dont know the line.

I support S4to335 in his support of TheHACK. Do a school, not a track day.

You're awesome dude. 3 guys that do about 30 track days / year say stay away. One guy says brake fluid. You're gonna listen to the brake fluid guy?

Can't afford a school, but you have an e9x key? You've been given professional advice, do what you want with it.

[2e9x's]

I agree 100% with those who say don't go to an open track day with no instruction.

Here's what happens at WSIR when you try the track without proper instruction

DON'T do it. At a minimum run a half dozen auto-x's first. Big Willow is a track where you CAN and WILL get hurt if you don't know what you are doing. No way, no how is the risk worth it just to save a few bucks.

This Sunday, April 26th you can come to the BMW CCA LA Auto-x for $75. You will get high quality instruction and learn the fundamentals of choosing a line and car control. You will hurt neither your self nor your car. PM me if you are interested.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by 325racer

+1000000

If I was at a test day and some noob was all over the track, I would have no problem giving them a gentle reminder to get out of the way.

Not to mention, Willow is probably the most dangerous track to be off line by a foot or two, as it's very unforgiving if you go off.

Yeah...Turn 8 is a biotch when you are a newbie...or you just go so slow my grandmother would pass you.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by 2e9x's

I agree 100% with those who say don't go to an open track day with no instruction.

Here's what happens at WSIR when you try the track without proper instruction

DON'T do it. At a minimum run a half dozen auto-x's first. Big Willow is a track where you CAN and WILL get hurt if you don't know what you are doing. No way, no how is the risk worth it just to save a few bucks.

This Sunday, April 26th you can come to the BMW CCA LA Auto-x for $75. You will get high quality instruction and learn the fundamentals of choosing a line and car control. You will hurt neither your self nor your car. PM me if you are interested.

That video is fun...and the part is...HE has a full roll cage..and the newbie wouldnt have near the protection..no 5pt restraint...no roll cage...no kill the battery switch...and probably the emergency crew would get there much slower. I cant believe he tried to start the car??? WTF?

[The HACK]

WSIR is a good learning track, but it would certainly not be my choice to go without any instructions available. At your (OP) stage of development you ABSOLUTELY need professional guidance in your passenger seat to get you started. A test-and-tune is not the place to see if this sport is for you.

Driving on the track (and at high speed) is a high risk proposition. Minimize that risk by going with an organization that will provide you professional instructions first. Or do the auto-cross as suggested, for $75 you get some degree of instruction AND you will be learning some of the basics in an environment where it'll be virtually impossible for you to do serious damage to your car.

And believe you me, the $300-$500 for the two events I listed will be well worth your time. If you can't afford the $500 for a proper driving school, you definitely will not be able to afford a wadded up car. Trust me.

[lib]

Originally Posted by Slikpak

i don't know if i can afford to pay for a driving school i know its cheaper then totaling my car but i think a little caution can prevent that from happening. Im definitely going to look more into this. Not really planning on tracking my car and totaling it. I think i might just have to go to the track day and take heat for being a rookie. Hopefully someone will be nice enough to take me around once or twice to show me what it will be like.

It doesn't have to be an actual driving school, you can find some excellent events where a club will rent a track, bring instructors and the instructors get to drive for free as their payment for instructing.

Now, my experience is limited but the impression I have is the quality of these club events can vary wildly so you may need to do a little research before just signing up for the first one you see. The one I went to earlier this month was excellent; very safety conscious, well organized run groups, more than enough good instructors to go around, etc. I've seen a few others pop up on forums recently that looked a little iffy.

The one I went to recently ran $165 for the whole day including breakfast & lunch. I recently saw another in the $145 range that claimed it would drop to $115 once a certain number of people signed up (for various reasons I wasn't thrilled with what I read about this event). There's also a school around here that has several two-day events throughout the year for $275-$295 for the whole weekend.

Yes, these all cost a little more than $50. They're also be a hell of a lot safer for a first time on a track and you'd learn a hell of a lot more with real instruction. I don't care how good you are, an instructor for the first few times out will do wonders.

Though, after typing all that... a real school is the best option.

[nicknaz]

Hey OP, I went to a 'test and tune' type day with TMR at thunderhill earlier this year and i definitely don't recommend that type of environment for a first timer. I've drive that track with open track passing rules a couple of times with NASA and HOD and it is very different environment at a 'test and tune' and a driving school.

big car capability difference on track is hard enough to deal with, add in big experience difference and its totally an incident waiting to happen. you definitely want your first time on track to be with an instructor, with other guys who are also learning and won't be aggressive and much more controlled passing rules

also, i don't recommend ATE super blue brake fluid since it stains the reservoir, which makes dealers and state inspection people get all weird. if you are looking for a 'bang for the buck' brake fluid the Ford HD DOT3 stuff has a really high dry boiling point for like $3/qt..

i personally would not stick a 4pt harness in my car ever or ride in a car so equipped due to submarine risk. i also wouldn't swap out the stock seat belt unless i was going to a full roll cage either, but that's just me and you should do your own research...

as for pads, maintenance, etc, you'll know when you need to go to a track only pad, and it won't be for a while (in fact, if you just decide to back off a bit you can run the stock car for many many days and still have a lot of fun for cheap......)

[mike-y]

As others have said, skip this day. The guys at a test and tune are hardcore and won't necessarily play nice with a track noob. the speed differential would be pretty huge, making for potentially dangerous situations. Try a different event first - one that offers instruction. Streets of Willow may be a better track for a beginner, because it is smaller and the speeds are much less intimidating. Personally, I wouldn't run WSIR (big track) without roll protection. Even my little honda enters turn 8 at ~120mph, and you really don't want to go off when you are going that fast.

I'd recommend a different event. Someone just posted a thread regarding Streets of Willow the day after - may 9th:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253411

[Slikpak]

After reading what you all have said and watching that quite entertaining video i think im gonna have to suck it up and pay for a proper school. I had a childish notion that you could kinda just show up and get to drive for a day. Thanks for the heads up would suck to drive all the way out there and realize that i am way out of my league.

Thanks for all the advice appreciate it!

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by Slikpak

After reading what you all have said and watching that quite entertaining video i think im gonna have to suck it up and pay for a proper school. I had a childish notion that you could kinda just show up and get to drive for a day. Thanks for the heads up would suck to drive all the way out there and realize that i am way out of my league.

Thanks for all the advice appreciate it!

Glad you saw the light...

BTW, here is a video of me at Laguna...

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