[NetVader]

I have managed to get my hands on photo graph of both the Turbo Tuner and Juice Box Plus circuit boards, but I don't know what to make of them. I am looking for input from experienced engineers and tuners, not the ones that make these products. I do not trust their input.

First how do these compare with each other in terms of overall technology use? How do they compare in terms of possible features and use? I read someone mention about a temperature sensor, but I am not familiar enough with electronics to know which part that would be. From a technical person are these systems more alike or more different in how they do what they do?

Please no flame wars.

[TheTwinz]

I think the only thing that matters is that THEY WORK. Do you open up everything you own and see how they work? I don't get what kind of information you are trying to get based on these pictures. They both apparently use green PCBs, which might add 5-10hp alone. One looks like it used a soldering gun rather than a machine. I'm guessing the extra weight of all that solder might net you a decrease of 3 hp.

Pick your poison.. and be happy with it.

[jcarlucci1]

You're comparing a resistor based tune(SSTT) to a microchip based tune(JB). No way to compare them by looking at a pic of the inside

[my2fast]

Originally Posted by TheTwinz

I don't get what kind of information you are trying to get based on these pictures. They both apparently use green PCBs, which might add 5-10hp alone. One looks like it used a soldering gun rather than a machine. I'm guessing the extra weight of all that solder might net you a decrease of 3 hp.

FUCKING COMEDY!!

[BzzzBom]

Originally Posted by TheTwinz

I think the only thing that matters is that THEY WORK. Do you open up everything you own and see how they work? I don't get what kind of information you are trying to get based on these pictures. They both apparently use green PCBs, which might add 5-10hp alone. One looks like it used a soldering gun rather than a machine. I'm guessing the extra weight of all that solder might net you a decrease of 3 hp.

Pick your poison.. and be happy with it.

The only thing that matters is that "THEY WORK?" I think it is also important to know if the products differ with respect to smoothness of power delivery, safety mechanisms and propensity to throw codes.

[lawdude]

Which is which?

[rocketpop]

Originally Posted by lawdude

Which is which?

JB+ is the bottom photo.

[ptwob311]

Originally Posted by my2fast

FUCKING COMEDY!!

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Interesting thread! One easy to spot difference is how much simpler the JB+ board is, and that the microcontroller is removable so its software can be updated. I'm not sure what that part on the SSTT is but I don't believe it is a microcontoller (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I don't see any temperature sensors on either board, but like I told BzzBomb before there is no reason to expect them. We use air intake temperature for tuning.

Since neither adjusts fuel pressure horsepower is going to be limited to 40-50rw before detection codes are thrown in 29.2+ cars.

I'm not sure what else to say, this isn't rocket science. They are both quick install TMAP tuners. Pick the one that comes in your favorite color.

Mike

[ragingclue]

That's like someone posting a picture of a white man's butt, and asking you which e90 poster it belongs to. You can't tell shit from comparing pics of the boards, just that the JB+ is IC-based, and SSTT is old-school with components and shit.

[TheTwinz]

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

The only thing that matters is that "THEY WORK?" I think it is also important to know if the products differ with respect to smoothness of power delivery, safety mechanisms and propensity to throw codes.

Yeah I agree, but he wasn't even asking about that. He was strictly asking us to take a look at their internals and judge how the product works or how it does its magic.. and which one is better just from the pictures..

[kentgbr]

Originally Posted by NetVader

First how do these compare with each other in terms of overall technology use? How do they compare in terms of possible features and use? I read someone mention about a temperature sensor, but I am not familiar enough with electronics to know which part that would be. From a technical person are these systems more alike or more different in how they do what they do?

Please no flame wars

We know that these scale the TMAP sensor signals but it's very difficult to glean precise circuit functionality from a picture of one side of the PCB's.

If that is an SSTT board then it's more sophisticated than the simple passive resistor divider/thermistor model that is often used to describe it here. It's definitely analog based with multiple op amps and transistors along with supporting resistors and capacitors.

The JB+ board looks simple by comparison but its microcontroller has a much higher level of circuit integration than the SSTT's active components.

They both seem to get the job done.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by kentgbr

We know that these scale the TMAP sensor signals but it's very difficult to glean precise circuit functionality from a picture of one side of the PCB's.

If that is an SSTT board then it's more sophisticated than the simple passive resistor divider/thermistor model that is often used to describe it here. It's definitely analog based with multiple op amps and transistors along with supporting resistors and capacitors.

The JB+ board looks simple by comparison but its microcontroller has a much higher level of circuit integration than the SSTT's active components.

They both seem to get the job done.

^ Well put.

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Interesting thread! One easy to spot difference is how much simpler the JB+ board is, and that the microcontroller is removable so its software can be updated. I'm not sure what that part on the SSTT is but I don't believe it is a microcontoller (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I don't see any temperature sensors on either board, but like I told BzzBomb before there is no reason to expect them. We use air intake temperature for tuning.

Since neither adjusts fuel pressure horsepower is going to be limited to 40-50rw before detection codes are thrown in 29.2+ cars.

I'm not sure what else to say, this isn't rocket science. They are both quick install TMAP tuners. Pick the one that comes in your favorite color.

Mike

Doesn't the SSTT have some cryptographic, super-secret, proprietary way of controlling whatever it controls or am I thinking of some other tune?

[NetVader]

Originally Posted by kentgbr

They both seem to get the job done.

Thank you, this is the type of fact based analysis I am looking for.

So does one way offer an advantage over the other in terms of how you tune? Which method is more expensive? Does one method take longer to develop than the other? Part of what I want to understand is the differences between them that leads to the big price difference.

Also I want to understand how the hardware differences give each one advantages. Like I have read a lot about the Turbo Tuner thermocoupler measuring underhood temperatures. How much does this part cost and does it offer an improvement? Is it true looking at the pictures the Juice Box Plus does not have a thermocoupler or is it built in to the chip with all the other parts?

[BzzzBom]

Originally Posted by NetVader

Thank you, this is the type of fact based analysis I am looking for.

So does one way offer an advantage over the other in terms of how you tune? Which method is more expensive? Does one method take longer to develop than the other? Part of what I want to understand is the differences between them that leads to the big price difference.

Also I want to understand how the hardware differences give each one advantages. Like I have read a lot about the Turbo Tuner thermocoupler measuring underhood temperatures. How much does this part cost and does it offer an improvement? Is it true looking at the pictures the Juice Box Plus does not have a thermocoupler or is it built in to the chip with all the other parts?

Jeff or Terry can you please discuss this?

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by NetVader

Is it true looking at the pictures the Juice Box Plus does not have a thermocoupler or is it built in to the chip with all the other parts?

Mike already answered that?

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I don't see any temperature sensors on either board, but like I told BzzBomb before there is no reason to expect them. We use air intake temperature for tuning.

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by lawdude

Doesn't the SSTT have some cryptographic, super-secret, proprietary way of controlling whatever it controls or am I thinking of some other tune?

Are you thinking of the JB3's super duper secret active timing retardation control technology?

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

Are you thinking of the JB3's super duper secret active timing retardation control technology?

Oh yeah, that's what I was thinking about. Thanks for reminding me.

[NetVader]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

Mike already answered that?

Yes, I saw that. At the moment I've become confused. I showed the pictures to an engineer friend (I did not say which was which product, and he doesn't know or care anyway because he doesn't have a 335i), and he had some interesting things to say about the designs. I won't share that to see if any other engineer agrees with him, but I will share this.

He said that he is absolutely certain there is no temperature sensor on either design. Can anyone comment on or confirm that? I know Mike said they do not have temperature sensors and since he represents his product no reason not to believe him, but the the Turbo Tuner guys claim theirs has a temperature sensor?

[undecided]

It's way more likely that they are tapping into the car's stock temperature sensor.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by NetVader

Yes, I saw that. At the moment I've become confused. I showed the pictures to an engineer friend (I did not say which was which product, and he doesn't know or care anyway because he doesn't have a 335i), and he had some interesting things to say about the designs. I won't share that to see if any other engineer agrees with him, but I will share this.

He said that he is absolutely certain there is no temperature sensor on either design. Can anyone comment on or confirm that? I know Mike said they do not have temperature sensors and since he represents his product no reason not to believe him, but the the Turbo Tuner guys claim theirs has a temperature sensor?

The JB+ does not measure underhood temperature We measure IAT temperature, which is what is needed in terms of tuning.

There is absolutely no reason to measure underhood temperature, plus it varies depending on what side of the engine, or the front, or that back. So where would you measure it? and most importantly what would you do with measurement?

Lets say that underhood temperature is measured at some location under the hood.

Two scenarios;

1) IAT = 80
Underhood temp = 100

2) IAT = 80
Underhood temp = 60

How should a tune react with all else being equal?

Mike