[BobVader]

Today test with UR catless DP on vp109.

I don't know if is DP or 1.3 vs 1.22 race map...but with my new setup I lost 1 mph on top end on 1/4 and any gain on time.

With my G-tech today. Temp is simillar than last time (6 degre more hot today, 36 vs 42) same road for the test


The first graph you have test with DP and without on vp109.

1-on 1.3 rev4, map #9 with DP
2-on 1.3 rev4, map #8 with DP
3-on 1.22, map #7 without DP
4-on 1.22, map #7 withou DP


The second graph you have test with DP and without on 94oct

1-on 1.3 rev4 map #8 with DP
2-on 1.3 rev4 map #8 with DP
3-on 1.22 map #7 without DP
4-on 1.22 map #7 without DP


I think the race map on 1.22 is better than new on 1.3 rev4. Probably because more low-en torque on 1.3...and more top end on 1.22. If not... the UR catless DP are good for the guys runs the car on dyno..not for a guy run a car on the road.

Probably very difficult to keep low-end torque and top-end power on the same map???

Your opinion ara welcome. If is the DP the problem, I'm disapointed. But if is the race map. Terry can you put the old race map #7 of 1.22 on your next 1.3 final (map 10 by exemple) Attached Images

I lost .1 to.2 on 0-100 mph

And the result is more affect on new race map with vp109. With 1.22 = 0.2 better with vp109. And now with 1.3rev4, only 0.1 better with vp109 (compare to 94oct)

But with 94oct the result is a bit better with new map of 1.3 and DP ???


HERE links for the 12.14 run on vp109:

[jcarlucci1]

Cant you reload 1.22 and do the runs with the dp's so you have a fair comparison?

[BobVader]

Yes I can...but remove again...45 min of work

More simple if Terry put the old map #7 on next version of 1.3.

[jcarlucci1]

seems 1.3 is quite a bit more powerful than 1.22 according to the dynos/track numbers that came out recently so I doubt thats the problem anyway. Must be frustrating though..im about to buy dp's but seeing threads like this gives me 2nd thoughts.. Does the car feel slower?

Originally Posted by BobVader

Yes I can...but remove again...45 min of work

More simple if Terry put the old map #7 on next version of 1.3.

[brianhn1]

Originally Posted by jcarlucci1

seems 1.3 is quite a bit more powerful than 1.22 according to the dynos/track numbers that came out recently so I doubt thats the problem anyway. Must be frustrating though..im about to buy dp's but seeing threads like this gives me 2nd thoughts.. Does the car feel slower?

I recently installed DPs and can't tell much of a difference especially for 1/4 mile times. Possibly quicker spool time (during rolling starts) and turbos not working as hard are the biggest benefits.

[BobVader]

Originally Posted by brianhn1

I recently installed DPs and can't tell much of a difference especially for 1/4 mile times. Possibly quicker spool time (during rolling starts) and turbos not working as hard are the biggest benefits.

Samething for me. Probably more fast to spool the turbo on start. (good for the 60 feets) But after... I see any gain

Oh yeah...the big improvement...the SOUND...now my car sound like a Ferrari...the sound is fantastic (wit AA exhaust) But for gain in performance on track...

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

I only speak for myself but I definitely saw an improvement in power and throttle response with catless ar design DPs, running map6/7 on the JB3 1.3

I think the more aggressive the tune the more benefit you have.

+1 for the great sound

Mike

[BobVader]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I only speak for myself but I definitely saw an improvement in power and throttle response with catless ar design DPs, running map6/7 on the JB3 1.3

I think the more aggressive the tune the more benefit you have.

+1 for the great sound

Mike

Yes but $1000 for the sound... I like paid for performance...the civic guys paid for sound...

[M_M]

Originally Posted by brianhn1

I recently installed DPs and can't tell much of a difference especially for 1/4 mile times. Possibly quicker spool time (during rolling starts) and turbos not working as hard are the biggest benefits.

+1

for sound effect, we can just delete the secondary cats!

[roozie2001]

no offense to vendors but these downpipes on here are extremely over priced. I dont understand why other cars like EVOs, Subis, and all other turbo cars pay less than 1/2 what we do for downpipes. thats why myself and over 50 other people on this forum want that VK Motorsports downpipes for $300. Its fair price for sound, and safety and a lil extra pop

[krapnoj]

Originally Posted by roozie2001

no offense to vendors but these downpipes on here are extremely over priced. I dont understand why other cars like EVOs, Subis, and all other turbo cars pay less than 1/2 what we do for downpipes. thats why myself and over 50 other people on this forum want that VK Motorsports downpipes for $300. Its fair price for sound, and safety and a lil extra pop

+1

[ar design]

So the runs were done with different tunes/versions? Not sure how that is an exact comparison? And, a G-Tech is not exactly an extremely accurate device. Put your car on a dyno, use the same revision tune, and the results will be different.

Originally Posted by roozie2001

no offense to vendors but these downpipes on here are extremely over priced. I dont understand why other cars like EVOs, Subis, and all other turbo cars pay less than 1/2 what we do for downpipes. thats why myself and over 50 other people on this forum want that VK Motorsports downpipes for $300. Its fair price for sound, and safety and a lil extra pop

We have two downpipes vs one. And the 335i downpipes are *far* more complex. As to the $300....you get what you pay for. Mass produced in China vs hand made USA quality. Take your pick.

[roozie2001]

Originally Posted by ar design

We have two downpipes vs one. And the 335i downpipes are *far* more complex. As to the $300....you get what you pay for. Mass produced in China vs hand made USA quality. Take your pick.

let me say i respect you and your product. and i understand that it might be slightly better using the argon gas, and made in america does mean something. But for over twice the price? cmonnn. And yes i know we have 2 downpipes. But when the cost of their downpipes is 150 to low 200s even 2 costs anywhere from 350 to 450. And again no offense but it is downpipes.

So if i have AR DPs that make and this number is totally a guess lets say 20whp for $699 and the VK makes say 15-17whp for $300. I think most people would take the VK Ones.

i mean you would REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY Have to sell me on the extra $400 and made in USA wont do it.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by roozie2001

let me say i respect you and your product. and i understand that it might be slightly better using the argon gas, and made in america does mean something. But for over twice the price? cmonnn. And yes i know we have 2 downpipes. But when the cost of their downpipes is 150 to low 200s even 2 costs anywhere from 350 to 450. And again no offense but it is downpipes.

So if i have AR DPs that make and this number is totally a guess lets say 20whp for $699 and the VK makes say 15-17whp for $300. I think most people would take the VK Ones.

i mean you would REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY Have to sell me on the extra $400 and made in USA wont do it.

There is a lot more to it than argon backpurging. Material quality, weld quality, etc etc. Our *cost* is well over $300. That should tell you something.... Also, ours are 3" vs 2.5"

But, if you want to buy Chinese stuff, I certainly am not going to stop anyone

[BobVader]

Originally Posted by ar design

So the runs were done with different tunes/versions? Not sure how that is an exact comparison? And, a G-Tech is not exactly an extremely accurate device. Put your car on a dyno, use the same revision tune, and the results will be different.



We have two downpipes vs one. And the 335i downpipes are *far* more complex. As to the $300....you get what you pay for. Mass produced in China vs hand made USA quality. Take your pick.

I run my car on the road not on the dyno. Many guys here have lot of hp but run 12.50... Dyno is a thing...track another one. And my Gtech very very accurate compare to timeslip at track. (many many test). Maybe the differente map ??? ...maybe.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by ar design

There is a lot more to it than argon backpurging. Material quality, weld quality, etc etc. Our *cost* is well over $300. That should tell you something.... Also, ours are 3" vs 2.5"

But, if you want to buy Chinese stuff, I certainly am not going to stop anyone

I have ar design catted downpipes and am very happy with the quality and fitment. I do not regret having ordered them at all and do not think they're overpriced at all.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

I have ar design catted downpipes and am very happy with the quality and fitment. I do not regret having ordered them at all and do not think they're overpriced at all.

Alpina_B3_Lux

awesome. I have mine sitting in the box still, and just looking at them you can tell they are of tremendous quality. Hope to install later this month.

To the OP, too many variables in there to focus on the DP's.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by scottp999

awesome. I have mine sitting in the box still, and just looking at them you can tell they are of tremendous quality. Hope to install later this month.

To the OP, too many variables in there to focus on the DP's.

Agreed

[bulldog_yyc]

very happy with AR design DP's as well - I definitely noticed a performance improvement, even with the stock exhaust system (DP back).

[Septro]

I think Bob has stumbled onto something here - I've done both the dyno and strip with the new DPs. I made outrageous power gains +43awhp from my last baseline with the DPs but I saw minimal gain at the strip with them.

Between the two I was also on 1.22 and now on 1.3. I think the race map of 1.22 had an advantage at the top-end. Even without DPs - the pull was strong all they way through the power band. I think 1.3 leaves a little on the table compared to the last version.

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by Septro

I think Bob has stumbled onto something here - I've done both the dyno and strip with the new DPs. I made outrageous power gains +43awhp from my last baseline with the DPs but I saw minimal gain at the strip with them.

Between the two I was also on 1.22 and now on 1.3. I think the race map of 1.22 had an advantage at the top-end. Even without DPs - the pull was strong all they way through the power band. I think 1.3 leaves a little on the table compared to the last version.

We need some procede users to speak up as well, to see if that tune also sees little improvement in 1/4 mile. Not starting a tuner war, just want more input.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Septro

I think Bob has stumbled onto something here - I've done both the dyno and strip with the new DPs. I made outrageous power gains +43awhp from my last baseline with the DPs but I saw minimal gain at the strip with them.

Between the two I was also on 1.22 and now on 1.3. I think the race map of 1.22 had an advantage at the top-end. Even without DPs - the pull was strong all they way through the power band. I think 1.3 leaves a little on the table compared to the last version.

Lets not forget 1.3 is a beta map set Still being worked on and depending on which version of 1.3 beta you have there are significant differences. It is great people are testing the new software and the feedback has been outstanding but it is important to actually state what revision of 1.3 you have when making a post because it makes a BIG difference.

Mike