E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Carbon Fiber Driveshaft



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-15-2009, 12:14 PM   #1
GreenPlease
Lieutenant Colonel
GreenPlease's Avatar
United_States
146
Rep
1,629
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i e92
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Orlando Florida

iTrader: (2)

Carbon Fiber Driveshaft

Found these guys: http://www.pstds.com/carbonfiber.htm

In some applications CF drive shafts reduce rotating mass by as much as 30lbs. If I recall, the last Z used a CF drive shaft.
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 12:29 PM   #2
Zeph
Major
United_States
29
Rep
1,410
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 335i 6MT SGM CR/BD
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Southeast USA

iTrader: (0)

Yep the 350z uses a CF reinforced driveshaft. Super strong, I have never heard of anyone breaking it and I had friends putting down 620 RWHP on upgraded engine components and TT.

Just another way to put down more power to the wheels, just like a Crankshaft Pully, Lightened Flywheel, lighter rear wheels/rotors, etc. Way more effective to lose weight on anything that spins

I think our driveshaft must be fairly light though, I have heard the 6MT only loses about 11-12% to the wheels which is rediculously low.
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 12:42 PM   #3
BavarianBullet
Lieutenant
BavarianBullet's Avatar
United_States
18
Rep
429
Posts

Drives: 2014 Audi S5
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenPlease View Post
Found these guys: http://www.pstds.com/carbonfiber.htm

In some applications CF drive shafts reduce rotating mass by as much as 30lbs. If I recall, the last Z used a CF drive shaft.
You'd definitely save some weight although I doubt the stock driveshaft even weighs 30lbs end to end. I'd guess maybe ~10lbs?

It seems like pstds is primarily pushing the strength aspect of their CF DS for high-HP applications. The "HP gain" you'd get from a lighter driveshaft would only really come into play as the car was accelerating and it would probably be pretty small outside of 1st gear similar to lightweight rotating parts (flywheel, crank pulley etc).

Looking at the prices for the 3000GT and other imports on their page, my guess is once you said "BMW", a price quote would probably come back north of $1000.
__________________
2014 Audi S5 DSG
2011 335xi Sedan (retired)
2008 335xi Sedan (retired)
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 01:00 PM   #4
Malek@MRF
Brigadier General
Malek@MRF's Avatar
United_States
740
Rep
3,732
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, G82 M4
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianBullet View Post
You'd definitely save some weight although I doubt the stock driveshaft even weighs 30lbs end to end. I'd guess maybe ~10lbs?
The stock drive-shaft is far more than 30 lbs in weight.

A carbon shaft will help reduce parasitic loss, but it will also reduce torque (to an extent of course)

A loop would be a good idea too just as a safety precaution.
__________________
BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport.

Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr
Phone: 949-233-0448 | E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 01:25 PM   #5
ar design
ar design's Avatar
United_States
302
Rep
4,408
Posts

Drives: 04 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (9)

From pulling the trans, I played with the driveshaft a bit - didnt feel super heavy, but I could be wrong.
__________________
-Critter
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 01:33 PM   #6
HighVoltage
.
HighVoltage's Avatar
United_States
42
Rep
867
Posts

Drives: 07 E90 335i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
The stock drive-shaft is far more than 30 lbs in weight.

A carbon shaft will help reduce parasitic loss, but it will also reduce torque (to an extent of course)

A loop would be a good idea too just as a safety precaution.
Why use a loop with a CF shaft? If it breaks it will effectively disintegrate as it hits the pan+pavement unlike those made of steel or Al.
__________________
Not only will it kill you it will hurt the whole time while you're dying.

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/
http://www.garagejournal.com/
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 01:36 PM   #7
Malek@MRF
Brigadier General
Malek@MRF's Avatar
United_States
740
Rep
3,732
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, G82 M4
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighVoltage View Post
Why use a loop with a CF shaft? If it breaks it will effectively disintegrate as it hits the pan+pavement unlike those made of steel or Al.
That's true, but to an extent. The loop would minimize it from hitting the ground or body if it does break away from the joint or etc.

Yes a loop is better suited for Aluminum or Steel shafts, but for a high horse power car and a CF shaft, a loop should still be used for safety.

Its a very small price to pay and not a difficult thing to fabricate for added safety.
__________________
BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport.

Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr
Phone: 949-233-0448 | E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 01:41 PM   #8
marcel b
Lieutenant Colonel
marcel b's Avatar
137
Rep
1,898
Posts

Drives: F31 340i
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

the standard shaft is only 21.605lbs
link
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 01:53 PM   #9
HighVoltage
.
HighVoltage's Avatar
United_States
42
Rep
867
Posts

Drives: 07 E90 335i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
That's true, but to an extent. The loop would minimize it from hitting the ground or body if it does break away from the joint or etc.
If it breaks, CF or not, its going to cause a mess. The whole point of a loop is to minimize penetration into the cabin and/or prevent a sudden de-acceleration if it digs into the ground. A CF shaft will do neither as it will disintegrate on failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
Yes a loop is better suited for Aluminum or Steel shafts, but for a high horse power car and a CF shaft, a loop should still be used for safety.
Under most existing sanctioned racing a loop is required only because CF is not (yet) the norm.

Quote:
Its a very small price to pay and not a difficult thing to fabricate for added safety.
I agree on these points but with CF it really is a waste of time.
__________________
Not only will it kill you it will hurt the whole time while you're dying.

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/
http://www.garagejournal.com/
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 02:37 PM   #10
stealth-twntrbo
Captain
stealth-twntrbo's Avatar
United_States
143
Rep
717
Posts

Drives: 2020 740xi
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NA

iTrader: (3)

I had a PST CF drive shaft on my stealth TT, and it was great and super strong and smooth, the stock drive shaft was super heavy. PST makes a great shaft I know that.
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 03:04 PM   #11
JayKay335i
Banned
Egypt
198
Rep
5,046
Posts

Drives: ///M323 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Dakota; its best DUHHHHHH

iTrader: (1)

They look good. But we dont have a need for them untill were hitting 600+ HP at the wheels. Maybe once the turbo upgrades and tuning is done for them.
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 03:55 PM   #12
ar design
ar design's Avatar
United_States
302
Rep
4,408
Posts

Drives: 04 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKay335i View Post
They look good. But we dont have a need for them untill were hitting 600+ HP at the wheels. Maybe once the turbo upgrades and tuning is done for them.
Where are you getting that number from?
__________________
-Critter
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 06:14 PM   #13
BigDonkeySchlong
Banned
0
Rep
40
Posts

Drives: Grandpa Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Delaware

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
the standard shaft is only 21.605lbs
link


That sounds about right, and this one is probably like 10 lbs right?


10 lbs off the driveshaft is worth something
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 06:26 PM   #14
shifterboy45
Major
shifterboy45's Avatar
23
Rep
1,179
Posts

Drives: 2009 335i Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North by Northwest

iTrader: (0)

remember the driveshaft is an assembly -- 2 piece with a center support

sooner or later IT WILL be the weak link in transmitting huge amounts of torque to the rear wheels ..

dont know if that 600hp number is substantiated .. but youll know your there when you shred the flex coupling or snap a yoke
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 07:11 PM   #15
GreenPlease
Lieutenant Colonel
GreenPlease's Avatar
United_States
146
Rep
1,629
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i e92
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Orlando Florida

iTrader: (2)

Seems like this would be the sort of thing you'd do a group buy with a rear LSD
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2009, 09:31 PM   #16
Malek@MRF
Brigadier General
Malek@MRF's Avatar
United_States
740
Rep
3,732
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, G82 M4
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Where are you getting that number from?
Pure speculation.
__________________
BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport.

Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr
Phone: 949-233-0448 | E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2009, 12:05 PM   #17
marconi118
Major
96
Rep
1,186
Posts

Drives: 06/07 e93 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: europe

iTrader: (0)

any company in US UK or europe that could build a custom CF shaft to match the M3 LSD to my 335i gearbox?
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2009, 12:35 PM   #18
Craig@SupremePower
G.O.A.T.!
Craig@SupremePower's Avatar
United_States
1018
Rep
74,992
Posts

Drives: '18 GMC Yukon XL
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (14)

hmm
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2009, 01:22 PM   #19
Proper Motion LLC
Custom Powder Coater
Proper Motion LLC's Avatar
149
Rep
2,784
Posts

Drives: White 335i Sedan
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Orange County CA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenPlease View Post
Found these guys: http://www.pstds.com/carbonfiber.htm

In some applications CF drive shafts reduce rotating mass by as much as 30lbs. If I recall, the last Z used a CF drive shaft.
Take a 2 hour road trip and talk to them
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2009, 01:46 PM   #20
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
657
Rep
10,864
Posts

Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Waco TX

iTrader: (0)

Might be a good solution for those swapping final drives to M3 pumpkins (because that requires shortening the driveshaft a bit).
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2009, 07:54 PM   #21
GreenPlease
Lieutenant Colonel
GreenPlease's Avatar
United_States
146
Rep
1,629
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i e92
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Orlando Florida

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Take a 2 hour road trip and talk to them
I didn't catch that they were so close. I might just do that
__________________
Cars>Women
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2012, 02:26 AM   #22
bbbwrx
New Member
2
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 07 E92 Montego Blue
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SL,UT

iTrader: (2)

Anything ever come from this? I have seen good things from PST in the Subaru world.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:53 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST