Run Flats = Fail

JRZFresh · 10-16-2009, 01:44 PM

RUN FLATS FTL

Does anyone else think there should be a sticky in this forum for RFT complaints? Perhaps BMW needs a lawsuit to wake them up. I invite you to read my rant below.

---------------------------------------

I'm sure that there have been countless threads on this forum about how unreliable and expensive run flats are, but here is another one anyway.

We have less than 10k miles on our 2009 335i x-drive sedan and just got our
2nd flat run flat. These flats have been the result of sidewall blowouts and not the result of hitting road hazards such as nails.

I find it very disconcerting that despire allof the complaints, BMW continues to make RFTs standard on all of their non-M cars. BTW, has anybody wondered, if the RFTs aren't good enough for an M, why does BMW consider them good enough for a non-M car?

Horror stories abound on forums such as this and on sites like BMW Run Flat Tire.com (http://www.bmwrunflattire.com/) and yet BMW does nothing! At the current rate of 2 FAILED RFTs in 6 months at $500 per tire, this car will cost me $8,000 in tires in only 4 years if I continue to use RFTs.

Honda owners sued and got justice, why can't BMW owners -

BMW AG, General Motors Co., Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. and several other companies continue to offer run-flat tires on a few vehicles. But at American Honda Motor Co., the 2009 Honda Odyssey Touring and Acura RL were its last models available with run-flat tires. "Never say never, but we have no current plans" for other models, says Honda spokesman Sage Marie.

After being punctured, run-flats typically can travel only 50 miles before they shred, says Jennifer Stockburger, a program manager at Consumer Reports magazine.

Depending on its size and the vehicle, a replacement run-flat costs about $200 to more than $500, compared with about $100 for a typical high-quality tire. Also, not all tire stores repair or stock the tire, and some owners in the Honda suit said the tires wore out at around 15,000 miles.

The owners of 94,000 2005 to 2007 Odyssey Touring and some 2006 and 2007 Acura RL models joined a class action suit in U.S. District Court in Maryland against Michelin and Honda. The owners alleged unreasonable tread wear, high replacement costs and difficulties finding a repair shop. The tires have been discontinued.

As part of the settlement, announced June 23, Michelin said it is offering a 3-year/36,000-mile warranty on the tires to owners of the affected models. Also offered is a $300 rebate on a new Odyssey or Acura RL or $110 for the purchase of Honda-approved Pax spare-tire kits.

Michelin spokeswoman Lynne Slovick said Michelin "will continue to offer zero-pressure tires [run-flats] if we get specific requests from vehicle manufacturers." Michelin run-flat tires are offered on the Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 and several BMW models.

Honda declined to comment on the settlement.

Source:
(http://www.autoweek.com/article/2009...news/907279993)

200Duece · 10-16-2009, 02:34 PM

Bmw Doesn"t Make Tires!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DJKhan85 · 10-16-2009, 02:48 PM

BMW should drop the runflats. It does cause more of an issue than anything. It's great that I can drive on a flat, but what about when I get home? I don't have another car to drive to go and get it fixed. A spare tire solution is simplest, cheapest, and just works(pending your spare isn't also flat

)

JRZFresh · 10-16-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 200Duece

Bmw Doesn"t Make Tires!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No joke, really?

BMW is the one that chooses the tires for their vehicles though.

Easternedge · 10-16-2009, 03:11 PM

RFT= Garbage!

pruettfan · 10-16-2009, 04:50 PM

I don't think it makes much sense to try and sue, only the lawyers make out in class action. The Honda Oddesy owners tried this and have not had much luck. They have some real nightmare stories. Anyway I would just take them off, sell them for what you can get and put a good set of regular tires on your car. I love my Vredestiens and every E90 owner I know I have let drive my car and all of them are going to switch. It makes that much of a difference.

The myth is that RFT's are more safe but fact is that have sidewall failures like any tire , they are limited in their ability to drive while flat and last half as long a most regular tires.

JRZFresh · 10-17-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pruettfan

I don't think it makes much sense to try and sue, only the lawyers make out in class action. The Honda Oddesy owners tried this and have not had much luck. They have some real nightmare stories. Anyway I would just take them off, sell them for what you can get and put a good set of regular tires on your car. I love my Vredestiens and every E90 owner I know I have let drive my car and all of them are going to switch. It makes that much of a difference.

The myth is that RFT's are more safe but fact is that have sidewall failures like any tire , they are limited in their ability to drive while flat and last half as long a most regular tires.

How did the Honda owners not have much luck? They won the case -

As part of the settlement, announced June 23, Michelin said it is offering a 3-year/36,000-mile warranty on the tires to owners of the affected models. Also offered is a $300 rebate on a new Odyssey or Acura RL or $110 for the purchase of Honda-approved Pax spare-tire kits.

But most importantly Honda has dropped RFTs from all of their cars! Imagine if BMW did the same. They would have to design their cars to come with a full size spare tire once again!!

RevC · 10-17-2009, 01:17 PM

my runflats have 100 miles on them..that should be enough said.

chowser51 · 10-17-2009, 03:15 PM

to the OP, what brand was your runflats that kept having sidewall damage? i got continentals on my e90 and they have just over 10k miles on them with no problems, i had a nail in the tread of one that i patched. still running strong, only complaint is the harsh ride. i'm putting non-run flat snows on the car soon and will see how the ride is compared and probably switch to non-run-flat summers when the continentals wear out.

didn't notice the nail until i got home, wasn't in there long enough to trip the tpms, but i pulled it and plugged it and it's been fine.

raj55 · 10-20-2009, 12:06 PM

I have just bought and installed non runflat winter tyres (Nokian RSI) and I notice that the ride is softer (but that could be due to soft rubber in winter tyres) and the cornering ability that the BMW usually shines in is less pronounced. Perhaps the stiff side walls of runflat allow for better cornering characteristics. My summer tyres are RFT continental.

I was at the dealer the other day and he tried to sell me a set of Pirelli winter tyres (Non runflat- yes you all heard it right!). It seems to be a new thing made for BMW. He even suggested that I would have to buy the M-mobility kit (puncture repair) to go with it. May be they are listening to you guys after all.

doggiedog · 10-20-2009, 01:24 PM

That's why you get tire and rim insurance when you purchase your car.

It cost me $750 for 5 years of insurance. 2 months after I got my car, I bubbled both driver's side tires after hitting a nasty pothole. The total cost to replace the tires was $900. I spent $0.

JRZFresh · 10-20-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowser51

to the OP, what brand was your runflats that kept having sidewall damage? i got continentals on my e90 and they have just over 10k miles on them with no problems

The tires that came on my car are Michelins.

JRZFresh · 10-20-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggiedog

That's why you get tire and rim insurance when you purchase your car.

It cost me $750 for 5 years of insurance. 2 months after I got my car, I bubbled both driver's side tires after hitting a nasty pothole. The total cost to replace the tires was $900. I spent $0.

I thought about buying insurance, but in the end decided against it b/c I thought that I might prefer non-RFT tires. Also, if the insurance more than pays for itself in most cases, don't tyou think those insurance companies will go bankrupt? I actually read about this happening on bmwrunflattire.com!

ru with me drhoo · 12-29-2009, 11:48 AM

THe difficult thing is that on these forums, we get isolated anecdotes about our experiences. Does anyone have any large-scale info regarding durability of RFT vs non-RFT? I hate the cost of the RFT and the fact that it limits my tire choices, yet if I switch I have to decide how to cope with a solution. On the other hand, I have a 2006 330i w/sport suspension and I have over 20K miles on my OEM Bridgestone RFT w/no problems, I've gone thru 3 winters of Dunlop RFT (one nail puncture) and now a set of Nokian RFT winter shoes.

Couch · 12-29-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJKhan85

BMW should drop the runflats. It does cause more of an issue than anything. It's great that I can drive on a flat, but what about when I get home? I don't have another car to drive to go and get it fixed. A spare tire solution is simplest, cheapest, and just works(pending your spare isn't also flat

)

And this is the problem I had.

A spare tire should still be included regardless if we have RFT's or not. You could get a flat and then have to wait until the following week to get a tire in like I had to do because of the day it happened and the lack of the tires being in stock. And no sensible person is going to go to the dealer and spend the extra money there for the tire. And even so they may not even have the tire you have in stock.

stubenhocker · 12-30-2009, 05:29 PM

I just recently replaced the Bridgstone RFTs with Continental and it was a big improvement, no more TRAMLINING! I also feel that the Contis handle better and are not quite as stiff as the B stones. That being said, I could have gone farther on the Bridgestones and I also use Dunlop M3 RFT snow tires and they have been excellent! I would prefer a spare, but RFT's are great for my wife as she can always make it home and is not stranded in some bad area, she couldn't change it if it had a spare! I'm not as negative about RFT's I check all of my tire pressures weekly and get great service from my tires whether they are RFT's or not!

10-16-2009, 01:44 PM	#1
JRZFresh Private 7 Rep 97 Posts Drives: B5 S4 / 335ix sedan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NJ iTrader: (0)	Run Flats = Fail RUN FLATS FTL Does anyone else think there should be a sticky in this forum for RFT complaints? Perhaps BMW needs a lawsuit to wake them up. I invite you to read my rant below. --------------------------------------- I'm sure that there have been countless threads on this forum about how unreliable and expensive run flats are, but here is another one anyway. We have less than 10k miles on our 2009 335i x-drive sedan and just got our 2nd flat run flat. These flats have been the result of sidewall blowouts and not the result of hitting road hazards such as nails. I find it very disconcerting that despire allof the complaints, BMW continues to make RFTs standard on all of their non-M cars. BTW, has anybody wondered, if the RFTs aren't good enough for an M, why does BMW consider them good enough for a non-M car? Horror stories abound on forums such as this and on sites like BMW Run Flat Tire.com (http://www.bmwrunflattire.com/) and yet BMW does nothing! At the current rate of 2 FAILED RFTs in 6 months at $500 per tire, this car will cost me $8,000 in tires in only 4 years if I continue to use RFTs. Honda owners sued and got justice, why can't BMW owners - BMW AG, General Motors Co., Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. and several other companies continue to offer run-flat tires on a few vehicles. But at American Honda Motor Co., the 2009 Honda Odyssey Touring and Acura RL were its last models available with run-flat tires. "Never say never, but we have no current plans" for other models, says Honda spokesman Sage Marie. After being punctured, run-flats typically can travel only 50 miles before they shred, says Jennifer Stockburger, a program manager at Consumer Reports magazine. Depending on its size and the vehicle, a replacement run-flat costs about $200 to more than $500, compared with about $100 for a typical high-quality tire. Also, not all tire stores repair or stock the tire, and some owners in the Honda suit said the tires wore out at around 15,000 miles. The owners of 94,000 2005 to 2007 Odyssey Touring and some 2006 and 2007 Acura RL models joined a class action suit in U.S. District Court in Maryland against Michelin and Honda. The owners alleged unreasonable tread wear, high replacement costs and difficulties finding a repair shop. The tires have been discontinued. As part of the settlement, announced June 23, Michelin said it is offering a 3-year/36,000-mile warranty on the tires to owners of the affected models. Also offered is a $300 rebate on a new Odyssey or Acura RL or $110 for the purchase of Honda-approved Pax spare-tire kits. Michelin spokeswoman Lynne Slovick said Michelin "will continue to offer zero-pressure tires [run-flats] if we get specific requests from vehicle manufacturers." Michelin run-flat tires are offered on the Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 and several BMW models. Honda declined to comment on the settlement. Source: (http://www.autoweek.com/article/2009...news/907279993)
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10-16-2009, 02:34 PM	#2
200Duece Colonel 45 Rep 2,575 Posts Drives: '73 2002,'18 X5 35d,'17 328d T Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: A Whale's Vagina, Ca iTrader: (5)	Bmw Doesn"t Make Tires!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ 1988 E28 535is Euro Conversion --- sold 2009 E90 335 6MT --- sold 2003 E39 540iT Msport --- sold
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10-16-2009, 02:48 PM	#3
DJKhan85 Major 24 Rep 1,190 Posts Drives: 2011 4dr 6mt Golf GTI Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boston Massachusetts iTrader: (1)	BMW should drop the runflats. It does cause more of an issue than anything. It's great that I can drive on a flat, but what about when I get home? I don't have another car to drive to go and get it fixed. A spare tire solution is simplest, cheapest, and just works(pending your spare isn't also flat ) __________________ 2011 VW GTI 4dr-6mt-Sunroof-Nav-Xenons OLD: 08 335i AW/CR/Poplar 6mt-ZSP-ZPP-ZCW-iPod-iDrive-PDC-Style 230s w/FK 452-Dinan LSD
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10-16-2009, 03:11 PM	#5
Easternedge Major 132 Rep 1,243 Posts Drives: 2012 Mini Coupe S JCW Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aventura, FL iTrader: (4) Garage List 2011 BMW 335is [0.00]	RFT= Garbage! __________________ Back again after 10 yrs! Daily: 2012 Mini coupe S JCW Baby: 2007 BMW M6 Vert Wifey's: 2006 BMW 650I Family: 2007 Chevy Suburban LTZ
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10-16-2009, 04:50 PM	#6
pruettfan Brigadier General 1628 Rep 3,402 Posts Drives: 2017 M2, LBB, DCT, Exec Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chandler, AZ iTrader: (0)	I don't think it makes much sense to try and sue, only the lawyers make out in class action. The Honda Oddesy owners tried this and have not had much luck. They have some real nightmare stories. Anyway I would just take them off, sell them for what you can get and put a good set of regular tires on your car. I love my Vredestiens and every E90 owner I know I have let drive my car and all of them are going to switch. It makes that much of a difference. The myth is that RFT's are more safe but fact is that have sidewall failures like any tire , they are limited in their ability to drive while flat and last half as long a most regular tires.
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10-17-2009, 01:17 PM	#8
RevC Lieutenant General 179 Rep 11,768 Posts Drives: a couple fast toys Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Voorhees+cherry hill,NJ iTrader: (26)	my runflats have 100 miles on them..that should be enough said. __________________ -Rev SGM e92 335xi\|Helix\|AFE\|AWE\|PROCEDE\|SYNAPSE\|ER\|OSS\|BMW PERFORMANCE\|P3\|always growing..
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10-17-2009, 03:15 PM	#9
chowser51 Colonel 2150 Rep 2,895 Posts Drives: F33 430 and F39 M35i Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cleveland, OH iTrader: (3) Garage List 2018 BMW 430i xDrive [10.00]	to the OP, what brand was your runflats that kept having sidewall damage? i got continentals on my e90 and they have just over 10k miles on them with no problems, i had a nail in the tread of one that i patched. still running strong, only complaint is the harsh ride. i'm putting non-run flat snows on the car soon and will see how the ride is compared and probably switch to non-run-flat summers when the continentals wear out. didn't notice the nail until i got home, wasn't in there long enough to trip the tpms, but i pulled it and plugged it and it's been fine.
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10-20-2009, 12:06 PM	#10
raj55 First Lieutenant 28 Rep 303 Posts Drives: E91 2009, 320i Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SWEDEN iTrader: (0)	I have just bought and installed non runflat winter tyres (Nokian RSI) and I notice that the ride is softer (but that could be due to soft rubber in winter tyres) and the cornering ability that the BMW usually shines in is less pronounced. Perhaps the stiff side walls of runflat allow for better cornering characteristics. My summer tyres are RFT continental. I was at the dealer the other day and he tried to sell me a set of Pirelli winter tyres (Non runflat- yes you all heard it right!). It seems to be a new thing made for BMW. He even suggested that I would have to buy the M-mobility kit (puncture repair) to go with it. May be they are listening to you guys after all.
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10-20-2009, 01:24 PM	#11
doggiedog Captain 40 Rep 757 Posts Drives: 09 E90 335i 6MT SG/BL Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Lee, NJ iTrader: (0)	That's why you get tire and rim insurance when you purchase your car. It cost me $750 for 5 years of insurance. 2 months after I got my car, I bubbled both driver's side tires after hitting a nasty pothole. The total cost to replace the tires was $900. I spent $0.
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12-29-2009, 11:48 AM	#14
ru with me drhoo Private First Class 11 Rep 103 Posts Drives: not yet! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: midwest iTrader: (0)	THe difficult thing is that on these forums, we get isolated anecdotes about our experiences. Does anyone have any large-scale info regarding durability of RFT vs non-RFT? I hate the cost of the RFT and the fact that it limits my tire choices, yet if I switch I have to decide how to cope with a solution. On the other hand, I have a 2006 330i w/sport suspension and I have over 20K miles on my OEM Bridgestone RFT w/no problems, I've gone thru 3 winters of Dunlop RFT (one nail puncture) and now a set of Nokian RFT winter shoes.
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12-30-2009, 05:29 PM	#16
stubenhocker Second Lieutenant 28 Rep 296 Posts Drives: 2007 E91 2016 F30 328d Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brush Prairie, WA USA iTrader: (0)	I just recently replaced the Bridgstone RFTs with Continental and it was a big improvement, no more TRAMLINING! I also feel that the Contis handle better and are not quite as stiff as the B stones. That being said, I could have gone farther on the Bridgestones and I also use Dunlop M3 RFT snow tires and they have been excellent! I would prefer a spare, but RFT's are great for my wife as she can always make it home and is not stranded in some bad area, she couldn't change it if it had a spare! I'm not as negative about RFT's I check all of my tire pressures weekly and get great service from my tires whether they are RFT's or not!
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