[carve]

I have an 07 335i that I've had for a year. I take good care of the finish...frequenly rinse the mit, only brush in one direction. It still had some swirls though, probably largely from the prior owner...nothing major, especially on a silver car.

To fix, I got...

Porter Cable 7424
Poorboys SSR2.5
Poorboys SSR1
Klasse AIO
Klasse HGSG

I used the SSR2.5 on an orange pad, and the SSR1 on a white pad. I used the SSR2.5 twice on the hood. I followed with Klasse AIO on a grey/black pad, and then the HGSG. I probably got 85% correction, but I still can't get the last little swirlies to go away even though the paint feels smoother than silk. I parked in the garage under flourescent lights last night and noticed some slightly deeeper, wider scratches in the direction I wash and dry, too, which is concerning (not big scratches, but big for a swirl line). I spent all weekend on this and am afraid of wearing my clearcoat off.

So....What's up? Any ideas?

[lopealle]

somebody will chime in soon dont worry. im not really good at that stuff myself, atleast not to give advice. and post pics it helps a bunch

[nikku]

Carve it's hard to provide perfect advice without knowing the current thickness of your paint. If you have anyone near you that has a paint gauge I would get it checked before moving forward because even though you've only done a certain amount of polishing you don't know how much the previous owner has done.

Once measured and you are within safe boundaries of correction ie. enough CC I would remove more clear to get the finish you want however if you are looking to keep this vehicle long term I would not chase random deep scratches to get 100%.

If you are not within safe boundaries ie. enough CC then I would not push the paint any further and just live with the current state and just improve your washing technique even more so you don't induce any marring. You could probably still get away with burnishing the paint with light polishes and pads.

I know this isn't much in terms of advice but I do hope this helps or at least guides you to an answer that you would like.

[BK]

If you're using a PC, I would not worry about burning through the clear. Polish under the lights, so you can see your progress. Do a small test section first. This way, you know immediately if your orange pad combo is aggressive enough and is actually making a dent in the swirling. If you don't see any improvement at all after one pass, either your technique is not good (lots of videos online to help) or your pad/polish combination isn't aggressive enough. I'm guessing the latter. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the PB polishes to give advice on them, but maybe the polish you're using isn't quite enough? Orange pad should be enough if the swirls are like you describe.

Also, I assume you clayed before polishing?

And finally, 100% correction is not the goal. Otherwise, we all really would burn through our CC eventually. For an annual or semi-annual polish of a DD, you should look to get it around 90+% -- i.e., "basically swirl-free, with maybe a couple of spots of deeper scratches that wouldn't come all the way out."

As for the swirls in the direction you wash/dry, swirls can appear over time even when you're very careful about washing and drying, especially for those of us with black cars. Just thinking about it wrong will cause black paint to swirl.

[zaxjax]

Two things: first Poorboy's SSR polishes are not that aggressive and second, the PC does have it's limitations for paint correction. I know with the Kevin Brown method of polishing with the PC many defects and great finishes can be accomplished.

I would either step up the polishes to something better and also google the Kevin Brown method

[jopa489]

I agree the polish/pad combination is most likely the problem. As said, the PC can really do some good correcting with the right methods.

Both the Meguiars M105/M205 combination or the Menzerna line of polishes are fantastic. M105/205 is very versatile and simplifies what you need to buy. We can recommend some great Menzerna polishes too. Let us know what you're thinking.

[ToadHollow]

Originally Posted by BK

If you're using a PC, I would not worry about burning through the clear. Polish under the lights, so you can see your progress. Do a small test section first. This way, you know immediately if your orange pad combo is aggressive enough and is actually making a dent in the swirling. If you don't see any improvement at all after one pass, either your technique is not good (lots of videos online to help) or your pad/polish combination isn't aggressive enough. I'm guessing the latter. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the PB polishes to give advice on them, but maybe the polish you're using isn't quite enough? Orange pad should be enough if the swirls are like you describe.

Also, I assume you clayed before polishing?

And finally, 100% correction is not the goal. Otherwise, we all really would burn through our CC eventually. For an annual or semi-annual polish of a DD, you should look to get it around 90+% -- i.e., "basically swirl-free, with maybe a couple of spots of deeper scratches that wouldn't come all the way out."

As for the swirls in the direction you wash/dry, swirls can appear over time even when you're very careful about washing and drying, especially for those of us with black cars. Just thinking about it wrong will cause black paint to swirl.

Originally Posted by zaxjax

Two things: first Poorboy's SSR polishes are not that aggressive and second, the PC does have it's limitations for paint correction. I know with the Kevin Brown method of polishing with the PC many defects and great finishes can be accomplished.

I would either step up the polishes to something better and also google the Kevin Brown method

Originally Posted by jopa489

I agree the polish/pad combination is most likely the problem. As said, the PC can really do some good correcting with the right methods.

Both the Meguiars M105/M205 combination or the Menzerna line of polishes are fantastic. M105/205 is very versatile and simplifies what you need to buy. We can recommend some great Menzerna polishes too. Let us know what you're thinking.

x 3 Step up the polish & pads to something slightly more aggressive. Menzerna is a great product line as is Klasse. Klasse is meant to be more of a cleaner in that it will remove left over wax/sealant from the paint surface & extremely lite surface scratches. It's one of the least aggressive polishes available. However, it's one of my favorites for achieving the POP factor. The Klasse Glaze is absoutely awesome.

Menzerna Power Finish ........... pics for us to see what you see PLEASE.

[Raz335]

Also a good idea to use a smaller pad with the PC like 4" which will provide more correcting. Smaller pads create more heat which results in more polishing power.

[tdekany]

Yeah- get the 105/205 combo.

No need to worry about the clear coat. Not with the pc.

Good washing habits and proper storage of your wash mitts/drying towels are also a must.

[carve]

OK...I went out and took some pictures in the garage. Pics of swirls indoors on a silver car is pretty difficult though. The first few are some distant "glamor shots" so you can tell it looks pretty good. The next few are too identical shots- one focused on a reflection, the pics you normally see, and the next shot of the exact same spot, but focused on the paint itself. The last few are shots of swirls using an HID bicycle light for a surrogate sun, and the overhead fluorescent lights to show scratches.

Edit- looks like I'll have to upload in batches.

This first pic looks like the hood, but it's just the little strip between the moonroof and windshield- a very small strip
Pic two is the turnk lid, which looks great here, but is where a lot of the bigger scratches really are.

[carve]

Same pic, different focus...

[ToadHollow]

That last pic showed some scratches, not swirls. They look fairly deep & would require stronger compound/polish than what you've used thus far.

Try the Power Gloss by Menzerna next time with an orange pad. You don't want to over buff the paint for risk of burning it. The finish looks really good ......... you're most likely the only one who would notice what you've shown us.

[carve]

Swirls. These are more like scratches. These are mostly from the trunk- the worst panel. I'll do an edit and put a pic of a hood scratch on the end, too

[ToadHollow]

Originally Posted by carve

Swirls

Scratches & swirls are essentially the same thing. What makes them different from each other is the depth. That last pic is deeper than the normal swirls would be.

[jopa489]

Agreed - you can tell those are not traditional swirl marks. Take Toad's advice and try something slightly more aggressive and those should vanish. Remember to follow up with something less aggressive to bring that shine back!

Finish looks awesome otherwise, nice job!

[carve]

This last photo is definitely the worst. It's on the trunk lid. Keep in mind that this is an area about the size of a penny, and contrast and sharpness are turned way up. Use the size of the flakes in the metallic paint for scale.I'm afraid anything abrasive enough to get rid of this would remove the clear coat.

The bigger scratches are showing up in the photos more. The swirls show up in sunlight better, although they're 80% better than before (and silver doesn't show much to begin with). The paint feels silk-smooth to the touch, and looks fine from a distance (except a few chips I fixed- no good at that either)

[carve]

And, finally, a few more glamor shots so my car doesn't look like a POS....

[ToadHollow]

Those marks are STILL deeper than the traditional swirls that are so often.
As myself & Jopa mentioned above; you may want to try a more dense compound. The problem remains that you risk damaging the clear coat without knowing what thickness you have left.

We're (myself & Jopa) both detailers & are giving you educated opinions here.

The glamour shots look great!!

[carve]

Thanks for the tips. I suppose I'll wait until next year and try a heavier compound. SSR2.5 is supposed to be one step below compound. It was really hard to get the shots above...big macro lens on an SLR and sharpening and contrast enhancement in photoshop.

I just went out and played with the camera some more. Here are a few shots of the trunk when NOT focusing on the scratches. I also have a couple of pics of the exact same spot again- focused on the reflection, and focused on the paint itself. I did one of the worst spot on my paint- a poorly repaired chip, to show how big a difference the camera can make. These are unshopped, and most of the worst scratches in the preceding pics are contained in these pics of the trunk. The last two are on the hood, and are the same pic with different focus.

[carve]

Good paint on the hood...

[Fresh330]

I'm getting sooo dizzy looking at these pictures

[jopa489]

The camera might be exaggerating the depth, but those look (relatively) deep in a few places - especially in the last picture two posts up. Does your fingernail catch on them? Trying a more aggressive polish/pad is definitely worth trying (and will certainly help), but those might be just a little too deep if you're looking for 100% perfection. Again, just going by the pictures here. It's tough to judge this stuff from an LCD.