[NiceAndSlow]

Hi Guys/Girls,

Not sure if this will work but someone needs to know how BMW Canada refuses to do anything about a car which has a history of failure. I own a BMW 2007 335i and had nothing but bad experience with this car.
The first 2 major problems were high pressure fuel pump where my fiancee almost got into an accident on the highway when the HPFP went and she tried changing lane to the emmergency lane with very little to no power.

I filed a complaint against BMW Canada but they refused to do anything about it. Just recently, the car has been having problems again, although it's the not HPFP, the sudden lost of power is not safe expectually if you are on the highway. BMW Autohause had the car for 8 days and just picked it up this past week.

It's been 5 days and here I am again, experiencing the same issue. Bought the car back to Autohause and filed a complaint against BMW Canada. Autohaus took their jolly time creating a work order. Pam Patel even had time to talk to another guy regarding some tires for some other customer while I was sitting at his desk getting service from him. He asked me to give him every detailed of the issue of the car but yet he only typed "3 lines" in the diagnostic area. He then had time to call a customer up to inform him that his car is ready. This is all while I am sitting there looking at him. The service work order took 45 mins!!!! and at this point I was peeved.

I looked at him and said to him, "You must think I have all the time in the word to be sitting here watching you service other customers". He looked at me and said rudely, "Let me ask you something, do you have an apointment ??". Are you kidding me! Although I don't have an appointment, it was clear to the customer serivce manager and Peter (assistant service manager) that I am coming in and not in a good mood considering I am back again for the same issue!

I have filed a complaint to BMW Canada again but they refused to do anything again. I cannot believe BMW Canada continues to let Autohause and heard from people on this forum, T&C, to operate in such a manner. I will bring this case up with Pat Foran and/or other TV/Radio stations. Why you ask? Well, I have time but more importantly, this ludacris have got to stop.

Please sign my petition and I will bring forth this matter.

http://www.petitiononline.com/b9058863/

[veightkiller]

get a lawyer and file a lawsuit, that's the fastest way to go and get results, thats what i would do.


Goodluck!

[335ifanatic]

Originally Posted by veightkiller

get a lawyer and file a lawsuit, that's the fastest way to go and get results, thats what i would do.


Goodluck!

+1.

You'll have to go down the legal route to get any results.

[lcs]

Go to another dealer. Autohaus and T+C both suck

[Darin911]

good luck

[aspiring335]

When you say they "refused to do anything about it", what do you mean? Surely they replaced the HPFP under warranty?

On what grounds would you sue? For loss of income? Bodily injury? Punitive damages because your feelings were hurt? You have to incur actual damages to have a claim against someone.

Being annoyed about your car having warranty claims, and not being able to show up to a business without an appointment and get treated like royalty are not grounds for suing anyone.

I'm sure it is intensely annoying to have a major component failure on your car, but the tone in your post suggests you have been highly confrontational with BMW and the dealership. This approach just isn't going to get you anywhere.

[joleel7]

You must not go to BMW Autohaus period they are good for nothing!!! If BMW Canada does not work may be you can try BMW Germany? My friend's brother-in-law (German) complained to BMW Germany after BMW Malaysia could not fix his E36 issue (sudden lost of power) BMW Germany flown in an Engineer to check out his car in Malaysia, well may be there is a German connection I don't know it shown they stand behind their product.

[NiceAndSlow]

Originally Posted by aspiring335

When you say they "refused to do anything about it", what do you mean? Surely they replaced the HPFP under warranty?

On what grounds would you sue? For loss of income? Bodily injury? Punitive damages because your feelings were hurt? You have to incur actual damages to have a claim against someone.

Being annoyed about your car having warranty claims, and not being able to show up to a business without an appointment and get treated like royalty are not grounds for suing anyone.

I'm sure it is intensely annoying to have a major component failure on your car, but the tone in your post suggests you have been highly confrontational with BMW and the dealership. This approach just isn't going to get you anywhere.

Well I have been quite calm throughout this whole ordeal but enough is enough.. I am not sure if you actually need to suffer any injuries before they do something. The actual fact being that my confidence that this car is safe enough to drive is questionable. And that has to count for something. A customer that cannot even trust the vehicle enough to hand it over to my finance to drive anymore. I am sure that if you were sitting in the car when this happens and your love one was driving, you would take actions yourself. She now drives the VW that I have instead. As for not showng up without an appointment, they knew I was coming both the assistance manager and the customer service manager. The point being that I was being serve by Patel at the time and I was his customer. He should not be handling other issues at the same time.

[NiceAndSlow]

Originally Posted by joleel7

You must not go to BMW Autohaus period they are good for nothing!!! If BMW Canada does not work may be you can try BMW Germany? My friend's brother-in-law (German) complained to BMW Germany after BMW Malaysia could not fix his E36 issue (sudden lost of power) BMW Germany flown in an Engineer to check out his car in Malaysia, well may be there is a German connection I don't know it shown they stand behind their product.

Wow.. I thought about that but don't know if they'll hear me out. I'll type out a letter and send it to them. Thanks for the info.

[JohnnyCanuck]

First, there is actually an art to making a complaint that gets attention and action. From the way you post, I suggest that you're going about it all wrong.

Rants, whines, and snivels get round filed. Well worded complaints that acknowledge the efforts made so far and how they come up short go a lot further. Well written complaints that acknowledge the good experiences you've had as a BMW owner while expressing disappointment that might affect future patronage will be read and acted upon.

Most importantly, online petitions are guaranteed to put you in the crank file and get you no attention or action. No business will, or should, respond to online petitions. I wouldn't, BMW won't, and your dealer could care less.

[veightkiller]

Originally Posted by aspiring335

On what grounds would you sue? For loss of income? Bodily injury? Punitive damages because your feelings were hurt? You have to incur actual damages to have a claim against someone.

So your saying is if the dealer sold you a lemon you just have to live with it? well i don't know about you but i'll take them to court and make my hard earned $$$$ worthy.


To the OP, like i said get a lawyer and know your rights on this matter and see where you stand in court, assuming your car is still under warranty they should fix it or replace it.

[NiceAndSlow]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

First, there is actually an art to making a complaint that gets attention and action. From the way you post, I suggest that you're going about it all wrong.

Rants, whines, and snivels get round filed. Well worded complaints that acknowledge the efforts made so far and how they come up short go a lot further. Well written complaints that acknowledge the good experiences you've had as a BMW owner while expressing disappointment that might affect future patronage will be read and acted upon.

Most importantly, online petitions are guaranteed to put you in the crank file and get you no attention or action. No business will, or should, respond to online petitions. I wouldn't, BMW won't, and your dealer could care less.

I am not sure if you have ever gone through this ordeal. I seriously don't think you get the point. It is not the fact that I have had all these issues with the car.. I care less because I will be definitely returning this when I am done with the lease but the issue here is people's safety is at sake here. This is no time nor do I have the patience to go through the "art of complain". To be honest, I care less if they do or do not do anything. Chances are they don't care less but hopefully from my experience, it would warn people of how BMW treats their customer. Even if only 1 other person gets the message, the job here is done. As for the car, I just want the damn thing fix and not deal with this headache. As for the "art" you are talking about, until you experience what I've experience, please avoid your incensitive remarks considering that my fiance and I almost got into an accident on the highway on the 401 on my way to Waterloo..

[veightkiller]

Check out this thread.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322990

i know the guy is from U.S but hey if you can get them to replace it that would be great.

[NiceAndSlow]

Originally Posted by veightkiller

Check out this thread.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322990

i know the guy is from U.S but hey if you can get them to replace it that would be great.

Yeah don't think there's a Lemon law in Canada. There's something call Canvap so I am looking at that option this week. We'll see.. keep everyone posted.

Crap!
http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...a-c157616.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/co...bitration.html

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by NiceAndSlow

I am not sure if you have ever gone through this ordeal. I seriously don't think you get the point. It is not the fact that I have had all these issues with the car.. I care less because I will be definitely returning this when I am done with the lease but the issue here is people's safety is at sake here. This is no time nor do I have the patience to go through the "art of complain". To be honest, I care less if they do or do not do anything. Chances are they don't care less but hopefully from my experience, it would warn people of how BMW treats their customer. Even if only 1 other person gets the message, the job here is done. As for the car, I just want the damn thing fix and not deal with this headache. As for the "art" you are talking about, until you experience what I've experience, please avoid your incensitive remarks considering that my fiance and I almost got into an accident on the highway on the 401 on my way to Waterloo..

But you have time to post rants here? Start online petitions?

I am not being insensitive. I am pointing out that your course of action will get you zero results. What will get you results is balance and reason as opposed to hyperbole and rhetoric. You are getting ignored by BMW and your dealer for a reason and I was trying to point out that it is most likely your approach.

Have I been in your situation? Nope. But that's because companies I do business with love to help me out and go the extra mile for me. Almost universally. Why? Because I know how to frame my "demands" in reasonable terms, set out clear consequences, and back my words with actions. All that without resorting to internet petitions and silly hyperbole.

As for incident with your fiance, if it happened in the way you describe then it's pretty unreasonable for BMW not to do something to respond. Maybe the reason you're not getting anywhere is your approach and that should be incentive enough for a little self-reflection on your part.

As for all these posts saying "get a lawyer" ... that's almost silly. Get a lawyer if you cannot get this resolved and you have a valid cause of action. The only valid cause of action that you may eventually get to is breach of contract or implied covenant for failure to live up to the terms of the warranty and it doesn't sound like you're there yet. Getting a lawyer will simply cost you money and get you limited results. Most companies react to letters from lawyers the same way they react to internet petitions. Could care less. Lawyers don't scare anybody with half a brain.

As for lemon law in Canada ... no, there is no such thing. What CAMVAP does is take your right to civil remedy away and replace with an arbitration process. In general, it is simpler and less expensive to succeed in a CAMVAP claim than in making your case in court. However, BMW is not a member of CAMVAP and therefore your leasing contract does not contain a clause replacing your civil or tort remedies with access to CAMVAP. If you can demonstrate that the vehicle failed to live up to the undertakings provided by BMW when you entered into your leasing contract. That is, if BMW fundamentally failed to live up to their end of the bargain by not providing a car that performed at a minimum reasonable standard for the vehicle, you could have an valid claim for damages as opposed to the specific remedies set out within CAMVAP.

[NiceAndSlow]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

But you have time to post rants here? Start online petitions?

I am not being insensitive. I am pointing out that your course of action will get you zero results. What will get you results is balance and reason as opposed to hyperbole and rhetoric. You are getting ignored by BMW and your dealer for a reason and I was trying to point out that it is most likely your approach.

Have I been in your situation? Nope. But that's because companies I do business with love to help me out and go the extra mile for me. Almost universally. Why? Because I know how to frame my "demands" in reasonable terms, set out clear consequences, and back my words with actions. All that without resorting to internet petitions and silly hyperbole.

As for incident with your fiance, if it happened in the way you describe then it's pretty unreasonable for BMW not to do something to respond. Maybe the reason you're not getting anywhere is your approach and that should be incentive enough for a little self-reflection on your part.

As for all these posts saying "get a lawyer" ... that's almost silly. Get a lawyer if you cannot get this resolved and you have a valid cause of action. The only valid cause of action that you may eventually get to is breach of contract or implied covenant for failure to live up to the terms of the warranty and it doesn't sound like you're there yet. Getting a lawyer will simply cost you money and get you limited results. Most companies react to letters from lawyers the same way they react to internet petitions. Could care less. Lawyers don't scare anybody with half a brain.

Thanks for the info.. noted.. you keep mentioning "the approach .." I doubt that is it at all.. just a simple google search you can see how BMW Canada has treated their customers on the same issues. I don't think it's just me or it's the approach. I think BMW cares about $ > customers. It's like that with a lot of businesses so it's not out of the norm but I dont' think it's entirely the approach as you keep mentioning. Now from my past experience working at Toshiba, we have call scripts how to handle customer complaints.. and trust me, if you're calling from the USA, there are certain "privileges" that you get that Canadian callers do not get... absolutely ridiculous if you ask me but the trend is that American consumers seems to have more say.. is it their approach.. i don't believe so.

[mimik]

Originally Posted by veightkiller

get a lawyer and file a lawsuit, that's the fastest way to go and get results, thats what i would do.


Goodluck!

+2

[JohnnyCanuck]

By approach, here's the kind of things I'm suggesting (putting my money where my mouth is):

1. Go straight to the dealership's owner/president ... bypass everyone in the system.
2. Write a letter - people don't use letters today so written correspondence stands out. Fax is fine, but courier is even better. Do not use e-mail.
3. In that letter, put the following sentiments:
   • That you're writing to the owner because you don't know where else to turn.
   • That you chose Autohause for your dealership because you were confident that they would be there for your during the life of your lease and you're not experiencing anywhere near the level of support and service that they led you to believe you would receive.
   • That you really want your BMW and Autohause leasing experience to be great.
   • That you had an incident with the vehicle that has scared you. Do not raise this comment to the level of hyperbole about being dangerous or believing that you were in danger, but do say it makes you worry about being safe. That wording difference may seem subtle, but it's important.
   • That when you have tried to deal with an issue that Autohause should treat as important, the SA is more interested in chatting with other customers and taking phone calls rather than addressing your concerns. State that it surely cannot be the level of service that Mr. Autohause (whomever you're addressing the letter to) would want his customers receiving and you are having a difficult time feeling satisfied that your worries and concerns will be taken seriously.
4. And, make sure you express the sentiment that you really want to love your BMW and your experience with Autohause. However, your vehicle is a lease and you will be making a decision on a new vehicle when it expires. The manner in which these issue get resolved will directly influence your next vehicle decision.

You're right that BMW and Autohause care about money. The tone you take should firmly place future purchasing decisons (and money) at risk while preserving an opportunity for them to rectify the issues and secure a future relationship. That gives a reason to put your file at the top of the pile as opposed to the bottom which is where internet petitions, online posts, and threats of lawyers gets you.

[mimik]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

By approach, here's the kind of things I'm suggesting (putting my money where my mouth is):

1. Go straight to the dealership's owner/president ... bypass everyone in the system.
2. Write a letter - people don't use letters today so written correspondence stands out. Fax is fine, but courier is even better. Do not use e-mail.
3. In that letter, put the following sentiments:
   • That you're writing to the owner because you don't know where else to turn.
   • That you chose Autohause for your dealership because you were confident that they would be there for your during the life of your lease and you're not experiencing anywhere near the level of support and service that they led you to believe you would receive.
   • That you really want your BMW and Autohause leasing experience to be great.
   • That you had an incident with the vehicle that has scared you. Do not raise this comment to the level of hyperbole about being dangerous or believing that you were in danger, but do say it makes you worry about being safe. That wording difference may seem subtle, but it's important.
   • That when you have tried to deal with an issue that Autohause should treat as important, the SA is more interested in chatting with other customers and taking phone calls rather than addressing your concerns. State that it surely cannot be the level of service that Mr. Autohause (whomever you're addressing the letter to) would want his customers receiving and you are having a difficult time feeling satisfied that your worries and concerns will be taken seriously.
4. And, make sure you express the sentiment that you really want to love your BMW and your experience with Autohause. However, your vehicle is a lease and you will be making a decision on a new vehicle when it expires. The manner in which these issue get resolved will directly influence your next vehicle decision.

You're right that BMW and Autohause care about money. The tone you take should firmly place future purchasing decisons (and money) at risk while preserving an opportunity for them to rectify the issues and secure a future relationship. That gives a reason to put your file at the top of the pile as opposed to the bottom which is where internet petitions, online posts, and threats of lawyers gets you.

+3

[C.D.335xi]

JohnnyCanuck - as someone for whom formal negotiations constitute a substantial component of my work, I couldn't agree more with your posts on this subject. You've basically provided the community with the Coles Notes version of "successful negotiating strategies 101". If the OP and others reading this thread take your advice to heart when involved in a similar situation, they will maximise the chances of achieving their desired outcome.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

First, there is actually an art to making a complaint that gets attention and action. From the way you post, I suggest that you're going about it all wrong.

Rants, whines, and snivels get round filed. Well worded complaints that acknowledge the efforts made so far and how they come up short go a lot further. Well written complaints that acknowledge the good experiences you've had as a BMW owner while expressing disappointment that might affect future patronage will be read and acted upon.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

I am not being insensitive. I am pointing out that your course of action will get you zero results. What will get you results is balance and reason as opposed to hyperbole and rhetoric. You are getting ignored by BMW and your dealer for a reason and I was trying to point out that it is most likely your approach.

Have I been in your situation? Nope. But that's because companies I do business with love to help me out and go the extra mile for me. Almost universally. Why? Because I know how to frame my "demands" in reasonable terms, set out clear consequences, and back my words with actions. All that without resorting to internet petitions and silly hyperbole.

As for incident with your fiance, if it happened in the way you describe then it's pretty unreasonable for BMW not to do something to respond. Maybe the reason you're not getting anywhere is your approach and that should be incentive enough for a little self-reflection on your part.

As for all these posts saying "get a lawyer" ... that's almost silly. Get a lawyer if you cannot get this resolved and you have a valid cause of action. The only valid cause of action that you may eventually get to is breach of contract or implied covenant for failure to live up to the terms of the warranty and it doesn't sound like you're there yet. Getting a lawyer will simply cost you money and get you limited results. Most companies react to letters from lawyers the same way they react to internet petitions. Could care less. Lawyers don't scare anybody with half a brain.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Thanks C.D.

My professional life has involved a substantial amount of negotiating as well and I bring those professional tools and skills to my personal dealings. Tends to serve me well and I'm inclined to believe that rational, calm, and reasonable approaches will advance anyone's cause more than theatrics or hyperbole. If others here find that useful, that would be cool!

[npinibir2]

Get a lawyer. That is exactly what I did with my 328 and it took less than 5 weeks and I got rid of the problem. I had to pay for the mileage that I put in the car but it's all good, my headache and frustration is gone. I like BMW's but I'll stay away for now until the issues with their cars are fixed.