[cstavaru]

Hi,

I am planning to add some more power in a form of a JB3 or GIAC Stage 1 or maybe Stage 2. I will not be running the car very hard unless occasionally and I want it to retain the stock features like low turbo lag and high torque down-low.

I was looking at the current intercooler offerings and I kind of like the HPF because it is easy to install using factory couplers and the HPF company has a good reputation. But I believe it's just way too big for my needs, what do you think ? Its the largest volume on the market (87% larger), and I believe it will certainly introduce some turbo lag which I don't want.

From the other intercoolers, I like the AMS because of the cast end-tanks and the fact that it is not overly large, but not too small to not make a difference either.

Anyone has experience with Code 3/Spearco (about same volume as HPF) at stock boost levels (or JB3 map 0-1) ? Any lag introduced ?

What do you think ? Is 87% larger overkill for let's say 380whp ? Which one would be better for my purpose ? Please, not the Helix again

[hun77777]

any reason you are against helix? all are great set up imo but if you have to make a choice between the two i'd pick hpf...

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by hun77777

any reason you are against helix? all are great set up imo but if you have to make a choice between the two i'd pick hpf...

I'm not against the Helix Just think that an intercooler that does not block part the radiator is better for me. Especially given the fact that bar-and-plate cores are not very aerodynamic.

[ianthegreat]

Your radiator is perfectly fine.

[AYF80]

HPF! if you ever put on more power, or even go HPF Stage 1, you’ll have it already.

plus even if you not going for high power outputs, your still getting the most cooling from HPF.

[onefastman]

HPF, biggest on the market and goes with the other items that will come out, also little to no trimming trquired.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Anyone has experience with Code 3/Spearco (about same volume as HPF) at stock boost levels (or JB3 map 0-1) ? Any lag introduced ?

I have the Code 3 Performance / Spearco on my car (with a tune) but had it also for several hundred kilometers with the stock boost levels. I did not notice any increase in turbo lag during that time.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[BrianMN]

In my opinion, AMS builds the highest quality parts for any application. Take a look at their website...check out what they've done for Evos, Porsches,and a bunch of other cars. They are really only starting to dig into our N54, and I can't wait to see what they come out with in the future.

I know everyone thinks HorsePower Freaks are...horse power freaks, but AMS has some insane builds too. They have many cars over 800hp out there, and actually beat the shit out of them regularly. AMS is track-proven. period.

[HPFREAK]

You cant go wrong with either company. It is really about what you want to spend on it.

[turboawdfanatic]

Originally Posted by onefastman

also little to no trimming trquired.

Are you sure about that? I haven't seen more detailed install pics...but from the looks of their video, if you take a close look it seems like quite a bit of trimming is required.

Watch the video and pay close attn: to 8:34(before) and 8:40-42(after). You can kinda gauge on how much/deep/far forward you have to trim by looking at how much of the vertical slat was trimmed.

[CubanJJ09]

i have the original spearco with a tune and dont have any lag. but for some reason i feel like the helix is just over kill.

[Kevin Harney]

Originally Posted by turboawdfanatic

Are you sure about that? I haven't seen more detailed install pics...but from the looks of their video, if you take a close look it seems like quite a bit of trimming is required.

Watch the video and pay close attn: to 8:34(before) and 8:40-42(after). You can kinda gauge on how much/deep/far forward you have to trim by looking at how much of the vertical slat was trimmed.

Yes I would like to know if this can be removed rather than trimmed back.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by CubanJJ09

i have the original spearco with a tune and dont have any lag. but for some reason i feel like the helix is just over kill.

overkill in that it works to keep aits at near ambient and doesnt heat soak? overkill in that its a completely ground up engineered unit designed for this platform in regards to custom fin heights and specs(not an off the shelf core that just happens to fit with some endtanks welded on) Overkill in that its design is out of the box,engineered to maximize the available space in the front of the vehicle and unique? Overkill maybe, if your killing heat


at this point its honestly about time that we have an intercooler shootout with an independant tester, we will gladly submit an intercooler for direct same day testing so we can put all the theory and conjecture to rest... enoughs enough in the "thought" that "this" intercooler is the best cause xyz made it, when end user data clearly shows its not... Lets let the results speak for themselves shall we?

[kjrulz]

A lot of threads on intercoolers lately.

I'd like to have this battled out.

[Gen_E92]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

overkill in that it works to keep aits at near ambient and doesnt heat soak? overkill in that its a completely ground up engineered unit designed for this platform in regards to custom fin heights and specs(not an off the shelf core that just happens to fit with some endtanks welded on) Overkill in that its design is out of the box,engineered to maximize the available space in the front of the vehicle and unique? Overkill maybe, if your killing heat


at this point its honestly about time that we have an intercooler shootout with an independant tester, we will gladly submit an intercooler for direct same day testing so we can put all the theory and conjecture to rest... enoughs enough in the "thought" that "this" intercooler is the best cause xyz made it, when end user data clearly shows its not... Lets let the results speak for themselves shall we?

+100

[cn555ic]

Although there is some trimming required on the HPF FMIC and its quite oversized for 400HP output, I just love the fact that its using the OEM couplers..Also because of the weight, I love the fact that the bracket are included in mounting the FMIC....Is there another FMIC besides the VK one that uses the OEM couplers?

[ar design]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Although there is some trimming required on the HPF FMIC and its quite oversized for 400HP output, I just love the fact that its using the OEM couplers..Also because of the weight, I love the fact that the bracket are included in mounting the FMIC....Is there another FMIC besides the VK one that uses the OEM couplers?

IMHO that is a downsize, not an upside....

I really, really like the AMS - very well designed. I run it on my car.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by ar design

IMHO that is a downsize, not an upside....

I really, really like the AMS - very well designed. I run it on my car.

I think Chris showed that if you really wanted to optimize the air flow capacity, then the whole entire piping would need to be changed out from the turbo onto the FMIC...Having that one bottleneck of with the OEM couplers really doesn't do much at 400-450 HP...Once it gets past there, then it would be an issue i bet..

[turboawdfanatic]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I just love the fact that its using the OEM couplers..Also because of the weight, I love the fact that the bracket are included in mounting the FMIC....Is there another FMIC besides the VK one that uses the OEM couplers?

Currently only VK and HPF use stock couplers. However....VK is not really available now..since the group buy deal fell through and as far as I know I don't think they have any in stock for individual purchase.

I love that the HPF uses the stock couplers as well as the rounded cast end tanks (unlike VK). I'm just not a fan of the amount of trimming required.
What I don't get is that they tout the ease of install by utilizing the stock couplers. But with all the trimming required(not minimal from what I can see in the vid)....it wouldn't be that much more work to just cut the clamps on the accordion hose and supply a replacement hose like the rest of the aftermarket IC's.

I know they posted the cross sectional areas, and stated that replacing the accordion hose, would be negligible. But what they did not mention was whether they tested the impact the accordion had on airflow. There has got to be some flow disturbances caused by the accordion hose as compared to a straight hose.

[turboawdfanatic]

After reading some more of their posts. Looks like HPF will be offering their FMIC with standard 3" connections to be used with their single turbo/IC piping replacement kits.

I believe we've pretty much already reached the limits of the stock turbo's. Is the size of the HPF core really that necessary for stock turbos? To me if they really wanted to dominate the aftermarket IC market, their stage IC's should be a little more different than just the connections.

stage1 stock turbos low: utilitze stock couplers with same cast end tanks but with a smaller core, requiring no trimming and TRUE plug-n-play/ease of install.
stage2 aftermarket turbos: standard connections, with current core. Targeting the real HP freaks (haha no pun intended) that want the best and don't care about having to modify the shroud to get the best IC.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I think Chris showed that if you really wanted to optimize the air flow capacity, then the whole entire piping would need to be changed out from the turbo onto the FMIC...Having that one bottleneck of with the OEM couplers really doesn't do much at 400-450 HP...Once it gets past there, then it would be an issue i bet..

this is entirely not true, you never want to expand a pipe (as the factory system does to 2.4") then bottleneck it down(to less than 1.8"), not once but twice. All turbos start on the exducer with a small crossection on the outlet tube then gradually increase in size> optimum as studied by garrett is to enlarge the charge tube after the exducer at a 12 degree angle up to the desired size pipe that will flow your target airflow.(this increase in size after the exducer has the same effect a larger downpipe has on the exhaust side) any restriction or impedence in the system causes pumping losses on the turbo and directly lessens the compressor efficiency. all of these pumping losses add up and lead to less power and a less efficient system. the factory turbos are already being pushed to the max why make it even harder on them?

[Zeph]

I think an important part of the comparison is going to be weight. Most FMIC's available for our cars are going to have VERY similar test results as far as temperature goes. There might be some sort of flow differences depending on end tanks and connectors, but I am not really sure how to measure that. There also will be differences in pressure drops. I think one of my biggest issues is buying the large FMIC's that weigh alot more, unless you are running about 600RWHP+ and need the size. The stock FMIC is the lightest by far I am sure, but not worth it for it's cooling effect (or lack there-of). Consider:

How much power are you running, or planning to run in the near future?
Do you plan to upgrade any piping in your intake system, such as using larger pipes (ie AMS works up to 3" piping).

If you are buying a HUGE FMIC that requires removing 1/2 of your front bumper and the entire support brace across the bottom front, that weighs a metric ton, just so you can run 400 RWHP then you are just adding dead weight to the car. Also larger can mean it takes longer to cool back down between runs... Plus do you want the air to hit square end-tanks and bounce off of welded corners trying to get through the FMIC?