[hks786]

To many people, Audi is replacing BMW as the go-to yuppie-mobile of choice. For one thing, Walter de'Silva's designs are almost universally lauded (Q7 notwithstanding) whereas the new crop of Bangled Bimmers are... controversial to put it as nicely as humanly possible. But it's not just down to looks and interior -- it can't be.

For the past decade or so Audi, BMW and of course Mercedes-Benz have all been engaged in mercilessly meeting each other tit-for-tat. 3/5/7 Series vs. 4/6/8 vs. C/E/S-Class, M/AMG/S, X5/ML/Q7, etc. It goes on forever. But the point is, Audi and BMW appear to be on equal footing and it looks like Audi has taken the copycat game to new heights.

Everyone knows that the BMW 335i is the most underrated car currently on the market in terms of raw thrust and grunt. BMW claims 300 hp and 300 torques, but even dogs know that BMW's trick 3.0-liter twin-turbo engine puts out much closer to 350 hp and 350 tire-spinning pound feet of torque. Why? Well, lower insurance rates for their customers probably isn't one of the reasons. However, remember that when the E90/E92 3 Series came out, BMW was still selling the 333 horsepower E46 M3. Meaning that it would be pretty hard to sell an older, $55,000 car with less power than a newer and just as quick $40,000 car. Or so the theory goes, though we should point out that BMW engineers angrily call us liars when we bring this scenario up.

And guess what? Looks like Audi is pulling the same trick with their new supercharged S4. Volkswagen and Audi tuner APR stuck a 2010 Audi S4 on an AWD-dyno and discovered the following. Instead of the 333 hp and 325 torques Audi is claiming, they pulled 331 hp and 336 pound-feet of torque... at the wheels! Figuring that AWD cars have about a 20% parasitic drivetrain power loss, the actual crank output of the S4 is huge. How huge? By our calculations just about 400 horsepower/torques. Gulp. Tip of the Audi driving cap to Brenton!

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/28/r...-is-underrated

[hks786]

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[josephr25]

If true... then wow.

[gonzo]

It would be nice to see a dyno from a member..if possible.

That is underrated to say the least if true.

I would like to go romp on one to check the butt dyno.

[philsteroni]

BS! It barely beats a 335 in straight by like .1-.2 seconds...costs about 10 grand more too...not very underrated if you ask me!

[bdkevoIX]

331whp/336wtq sounds nice. But couple things need to be addressed to set up a valid comparison. Remember, dyno numbers are not absolute numbers. It's all relative.

First, you need to find out stock dyno numbers of the cars with well-established baseline such as evo, sti, 335i etc. Does an evo9 typically dyno around ~250whp on that dyno under similar condition? If so, then 331whp figure is much more believable.

Also, 331whp/336wtq should translate to more or less equivalent trap speed when run at 1/4 mile strip. At ~3800lbs (correct me if i'm wrong), s4 should run about ~110mph with that much power. Trust the trap speed, not the dyno number.

[NYC6]

I havent seen a N54 come close to 350/350 bone stock. Dont know where they're getting these #'s from.

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by NYC6

I havent seen a N54 come close to 350/350 bone stock. Dont know where they're getting these #'s from.

They're basing it off of stock dyno numbers N54's been producing.
Then they used the typical ricer math 15% to get the bhp/btq number.

[footie]

A stock S4 won't be producing 400hp and similar torque at the crank, it just won't happen. 360/360 is more believable.

If a stock S4 achieves more than 108-9mph in the 1/4mile run I will eat my hat.

[bdkevoIX]

I just saw a comparison vid, and a stock S4 trapped ~107mph. quite impressive.

[domobrown]

Originally Posted by philsteroni

BS! It barely beats a 335 in straight by like .1-.2 seconds...costs about 10 grand more too...not very underrated if you ask me!

Because straight line is everything

[footie]

Originally Posted by bdkevoIX

I just saw a comparison vid, and a stock S4 trapped ~107mph. quite impressive.

Well there you go, 1-2mph of an improvement would be a tall order and I am sure someone with the right software can run the numbers to see how much PTW would be needed to achieve these speed in a 1/4mile run.

[S4to335]

Did you guys see this....13.1 at 109 mph...stock

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by footie

A stock S4 won't be producing 400hp and similar torque at the crank, it just won't happen. 360/360 is more believable.

If a stock S4 achieves more than 108-9mph in the 1/4mile run I will eat my hat.

What kinda hat do you want.?

[footie]

I would hold on the hat until that is repeated by a consumers car. Read what you will about that statement.

[MrLOL]

Originally Posted by S4to335

What kinda hat do you want.?

indeed

the audi forums are full of discussion about it

and Its not the only S4 that's made that sort of power at the dyno

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2775335

Shame they're dull as dishwater however.

[bdkevoIX]

109mph stock
I want!

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by bdkevoIX

They're basing it off of stock dyno numbers N54's been producing.
Then they used the typical ricer math 15% to get the bhp/btq number.

Thats my point. A car would have to produce 297.5 hp at the wheels to reach 350bhp. I have not seen one dyno that spun up that high with a bone stock car. Most seem to be in the 270rwhp (+-). Factor 15% and you get 310bhp.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by philsteroni

BS! It barely beats a 335 in straight by like .1-.2 seconds...costs about 10 grand more too...not very underrated if you ask me!

Gotta love Canadian Math!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

Gotta love Canadian Math!

huh?....their is nuthing wrong with canadien math...i was grate in math and and got strate A's...I can outmath any Amarican any day of the weak!!!
We have moor accountaints per kapita than any cuntry out their!!!!

[footie]

The info from Audiworld.com states that in 'that' dyno run the S4 in question made 306hp and 295ft/lbs, if you believe the latest quattro loses 20% then the figure we end up with is 382hp and approx 370ft/lbs, it's starting to get closer to my own estimates but then again this is assuming the latest drivetrain loses 20%.

What figure do you get if it only loses approximately 15%.

[TSM330i]

There are many issues with chassis dyno's. They are good for measuring before and after mod increases, but for actual crank hp, they are not as accurate.
I spoke to the guys who build the Corvette racing engines (yes, Katech) and they said that all new Z06's make right about 505hp. Chassis dyno's are just not that accurate. Every engine Katech has put on an engine dyno made the correct hp. I don't believe the Audi is make 400 hp until it's put on an engine dyno.