[mobileadam]

Call me a whimp but I've tried very hard to try and remove some of wheel nuts to replace with those McGard things I purchased last week. I've got my torque wrench all calibrated and a few socket set options but I couldn't even get any of my 'nut' to move at all!!!!

Should I go and buy a proper dedicated tool? or join the gym? I might ask my local tyre place to do them for me but it is annoying me!!!

Cheers

[R80TER]

how long is your bar? to be fair, anything shorter than at least a foot will struggle. either jump on it, or smack it with a hammer.

[chinoxs203]

id suggest trying to extend the wrench with a pipe. just long enough so you still keep one hand on the lug portion to keep it from moving.

[F104]

assuming you have 20-25" torque wrench, up the setting and see when the bolts come loose. I would definitely be worried if they brake loose above 180Nm/140lbsft and then replace them all (and check who took your wheels off the last time). If they don't come off at that setting, use your std socket set and tap the lever (if you have one rather than the wrench) with a rubber hammer (support the center with one hand so all the force put on the lever goes into turning the bolt rather than trying to bend it, and so the socket won't slip off)
As stated in another UK thread today - they should be set at 88 lbsft. Even a whimp should be able to get them off at that setting. If seriously over torqued they might be (visibly) strechted and definitely not safe to re-use. I'm no expert but above 140 lbsft is 50% over, even taking in account some corrosion /break away torque I would have serious doubts if it takes that much force to remove them.

[mobileadam]

Thanks for all the tips. I'll attack them again this coming weekend. Might see if the wife's car has a better tool.

I just don't want anything to slip and damage the paint work or wheels.

[Jeff123]

Hi

I was the same problem when I fitted McGuards. I actually broke my wheel brace and still could not shift 2 of the nuts. Took the car to my mate who has a garage. His Oppo. took one of the long braces (like a broom handle) and could just about get the nuts off - he went flying across the yard in the process!

I would take yours to a garage, otherwise you will risk damaging the wheel if the brace suddenly slips off the nut. Any back street guy will do it if you slip him a fiver (or tenner).

Jeff

[Dr Dave]

I agree, drop the car to a garage perhaps towards the end of the day when things are winding down and ask one of the lads to crack your nuts off.

Pray to God you don't get a gay mechanic

[F104]

see this for over-torqued bolts. You don't want to be driving with bolts anywhere close to these.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ed+wheel+bolts

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by F104

see this for over-torqued bolts. You don't want to be driving with bolts anywhere close to these.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ed+wheel+bolts

Hmmm, quite an eye opener and this practise isn't limited to the automotive industry.
I've seen the same thing done on helicopters by 'engineers' who think they know better; on one occasion with near disastrous consequences.
Unless otherwise specified, fasteners should always be dry-torqued - a classic case of

[warriorboy]

dont use a torque wrench to take nuts off as it is a sensitive piece of kit and can break easily as I have found to my cost - get down to machine mart and get a breaker bar

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by mobileadam

Should I go and buy a proper dedicated tool? or join the gym? I might ask my local tyre place to do them for me but it is annoying me!!!

Cheers

Most socket set ratchet handles are too short, you need an extension of at least 300mm really, as said a long breaker bar (or a tube over your ratchet handle if its up to it) is ideal.

A dry bolt done up to 120nm will always take more, sometimes lots more, than 120nm to undo. If your wheels are warm it will be worse as aluminium expands more than steel so the bolts will be tighter especially if they were put on when the wheels were cold.

Say 200nm to shift it, that's 150lbft, so the same as a 10 stone person standing on a 12inch lever!!!

Originally Posted by warriorboy

dont use a torque wrench to take nuts off as it is a sensitive piece of kit and can break easily as I have found to my cost - get down to machine mart and get a breaker bar

+1

Torque wrenches are for tightening up not undoing.....

Remember to crack the nuts 1/2 a turn when the car is on the floor with the handbrake on not up on the jack.

A quick kick afterwards will allow the wheels to crack free from the hub centres which they are often stuck too.

[Sh0cker]

My wife's car had this problem...my impact wrench wouldn't break the nuts (800 Nm peak supposedly), when I used a breaker bar it first twisted the socket extension then broke the ratchet.

We had to have the dealer fix it (obviously it was put on wrong so it was their problem to fix). Fortunately I there doesn't appear to be any ill effects from all this so far.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by mobileadam

Call me a whimp but I've tried very hard to try and remove some of wheel nuts to replace with those McGard things I purchased last week. I've got my torque wrench all calibrated and a few socket set options but I couldn't even get any of my 'nut' to move at all!!!!

Should I go and buy a proper dedicated tool? or join the gym? I might ask my local tyre place to do them for me but it is annoying me!!!

Cheers

If you haven't yet managed to shift the bolts and assuming that you have alloy wheels, try applying heat directly onto the wheel hub with a hair drier on max, through the wheel spokes. Concentrate on the bottom (heat rises), but work your way around and get the hub as hot as you can. Bearing in mind the heat generated by braking, I'm sure you won't damage the paint as long as you don't point the hair drier directly at the wheel - perhaps take the car for a spirited drive with lots of braking first.
Then take a long breaker bar and initially try to tighten the bolts, then immediately attempt to loosen them. At all times ensure that you apply ample force to keep the socket from coming off the bolt head, otherwise you'll likely round off the hex and damage the wheel. Pull up on the bar as opposed to pushing down as this will give you additional leverage and greater control once you break the torque.
I'm sure there will be a few reading this who might be thinking that both the hub and bolts are steel; this is perfectly true, but they will expand at different rates and it might be sufficient to free things up. This is especially effective if corrosion is the source of the problem.
Good luck.

[F104]

Originally Posted by mobileadam

Thanks for all the tips. I'll attack them again this coming weekend. Might see if the wife's car has a better tool.

I just don't want anything to slip and damage the paint work or wheels.

Just noticed the date you joined - is your car still in warranty? If so take it to the dealer and raise the issue of road safety with stretched bolts. If you can't do replace all the bolts if you even think they have been over stressed.
The typical minimum engagement for a bolt is 1.5 times the thread diameter, with that the thread stays ok but the bolt will stretch when over torqued. When you use same bolts with spacers and are way below 1.5, then you'll strip the threads. Something has to give...

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by F104

Just noticed the date you joined - is your car still in warranty? If so take it to the dealer and raise the issue of road safety with stretched bolts. If you can't do replace all the bolts if you even think they have been over stressed.
The typical minimum engagement for a bolt is 1.5 times the thread diameter, with that the thread stays ok but the bolt will stretch when over torqued. When you use same bolts with spacers and are way below 1.5, then you'll strip the threads. Something has to give...

Well spotted; if the car is still under warranty, leave it alone and go straight back to the dealer.

[mobileadam]

Thanks guys. I'm not sure whether they are done up too tight or not, just wanted to put in some extra security. I think I will get my mechanic friend to take a look and see if he can tell they are too tight then I will book it in.

I just had to get a dealer to adjust the handbrake as it was far to high and they tried to charge me 45 quid for the privledge saying it wasn't a warranty item. I said the car was a AUC which I have had for only 6 weeks and they are going to speak to the supplying dealer to see if they can sort something out.

At least any thieves will also struggle to get hold of my nice shiny wheels....

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by mobileadam

Thanks guys. I'm not sure whether they are done up too tight or not, just wanted to put in some extra security. I think I will get my mechanic friend to take a look and see if he can tell they are too tight then I will book it in.

I just had to get a dealer to adjust the handbrake as it was far to high and they tried to charge me 45 quid for the privledge saying it wasn't a warranty item. I said the car was a AUC which I have had for only 6 weeks and they are going to speak to the supplying dealer to see if they can sort something out.

At least any thieves will also struggle to get hold of my nice shiny wheels....

As you've only had the car for 6 weeks, I'd recommend that you get the dealer to remove the bolts and insist on checking to see if they've been stretched due to over-tightening.
As to deterring thieves: BMW do McGuard wheel bolts that are black to match your existing ones and you'll be pleasantly surprised to find that they're reasonably priced.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by mobileadam

I just had to get a dealer to adjust the handbrake as it was far to high and they tried to charge me 45 quid for the privledge saying it wasn't a warranty item.

The handbrake is self adjusting (as handbrakes have been for years IMO) if yours isn't working then its going to keep requiring manual adjustment.

You should have about 3 clicks from off to on, I find the BMW handbrakes are often quite tight and somtimes they adjust to 1 or 2 clicks.

Try pulling on the handbrake just before you stop this often forces the adjusters to operate.

[mobileadam]

I think the handbrake was about 5 clicks and really pointed to the ceiling. It is much better now (about 3 clicks) and I will monitor it to see what happens over time. I did read somewhere else that these handbrakes aren't self adjusting but I can't recall where.

Cheers again for the info. I did pick up some new McGuard nuts from my local dealer hence the start of this thread as I thought fitting them would be easy!

[mobileadam]

There is some chatter about the handbrake on this thread - but no real resolution to the problem or answers:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321845

[335DPOWER]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Most socket set ratchet handles are too short, you need an extension of at least 300mm really, as said a long breaker bar (or a tube over your ratchet handle if its up to it) is ideal.

A dry bolt done up to 120nm will always take more, sometimes lots more, than 120nm to undo. If your wheels are warm it will be worse as aluminium expands more than steel so the bolts will be tighter especially if they were put on when the wheels were cold.

Say 200nm to shift it, that's 150lbft, so the same as a 10 stone person standing on a 12inch lever!!!





+1

Torque wrenches are for tightening up not undoing.....

Remember to crack the nuts 1/2 a turn when the car is on the floor with the handbrake on not up on the jack.

A quick kick afterwards will allow the wheels to crack free from the hub centres which they are often stuck too.

All very true, all I can add is when I done mine I let the car sit for a few hours so the wheels and nuts where cold,cold,cold trust me this made a huge difference.
Also go hard but not too hard as you would rather not scratch, break something trying to free them nuts
Just takes a little patience and none of this

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by mobileadam

I did read somewhere else that these handbrakes aren't self adjusting but I can't recall where.

You may be right, but on both E90 and E91 i've had the handbrake would gradually get looser until one day it would be tight again.

This would often happen if I applied the handbrake just before the car stopped, you'd feel a click through the handle and then it would be tight again.

50,000 miles plus in the E90 and it never needed manually adjusting.