[oldnamer]

Hi all,
I've read pages and pages about audio upgrade to E90/91. Finally i think i have a rough idea of what to expect/do. I would like some advice from experts in this area. I understand 2007's are called E91, correct me if i'm wrong.


1. BSW kit improves the SQ only marginally from stock especially for hifi. So i may not want to spend $600 and get only minor improvement.
2. Best way to achive SQ is to replace Amp [for sure], then speakers if it budget allows for it. I think I'll replace all or nothing.
3. I can spend $1000 - $1500 including install. And i intend to buy each component as cheap as possible even on craigslist.

Some questions I may need help on:
1. Technic was in the process of making a harness that allows to tap into stock connector and no additional wiring necessary. Any info on this???
2. Will Alpine PDX-5 run all the speaker and 2 SWS-8 subs if i end up getting the subs??
3. Now that 2 ohm SWS-8 are available, would it be wise to use a 4 channel amp for speakers and power the subs with factory amp??
4. What are the best replacement speakers and tweeter that i can use.. Need to be priced reasonably and sound good.
5. If i can use factory amp for SWS, what 4 channel amp is recommended??
6. Are crossovers needed to filter our and send right frequency to right speakers or will digital amp do that??

I dont need theatrical sound in my car, but i hate the sound right now. I think mainly highs are missing and some mid's are horrible, bass not so bad..

I've heard Bose systems in Audi and Infinity. Honestly if my SQ sounds as good as that, that's all i need.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
V

[VP Electricity]

No, E91 are wagons, E90 are sedans, hence my 2007 wagon is an E91

1. can't speak to that.

2. Or 4 ohm, same power output. 4ohm slightly cheaper.

3. No, factory amp can't push SWS-8 well at all.

4. Best, reasonably priced? Reasonable is different for everybody.

5. See above.

6. There are two kinds of crossover.

Passive crossovers go on the speaker wire and filter signal that comes out of the amp, before it gets to the speaker. the HiFi system uses rudimentary passiver crossover filters on the tweeters - series capacitors.

Active or electronic crossovers filter sound before it gets to the amplifier section. Then the speaker connected to that amp channel only plays the notes it's sent. In the HiFi system, the bass is filtered out of the 4" with an active crossover in the HiFi amp, and the mids are filtered out of the underseat woofers with an active crossover in the HiFi amp.

With most upgrades, there is a new passive crossover for the tweeter or the mid and tweeter that comes with your new front speakers, but the low bass is filtered out of the 4", and the mids out of thee underseat SWS8, by an active filter in the new amp. Doesn't matter if it's "digital" (meaning Class D) or not.


BTW, I'm not convinced that amplifying factory speakers is that rewarding.

Have you got a target budget for your project?

[VP Electricity]

I think your best bet is Dotech Ovation 4, SWS-8 in 2 ohm, and an Arc Audio XXD4080 (80x2 front, 120x2 subs). If you were buying locally from me, this would run you $1500 installed, including steel 4" adapter rings and underseat sealing rings.

I would leave the OEM rears on the OEM HiFi amp and take the front HU output to the OEM amp and reroute it to the Arc 4080.

There are Rainbow 4" comps that would cost less, and their tweeters sound nice, but the woofer doesn't sound as good in the lower end of the range as the Morel 4" does. If you cross the 4" too high and let the 8" play too high, you get a nasty midbass hole right about where your ears are due to cabin acoustics and destructive interference.

[oldnamer]

VP,
Thanks for your input. I'm working with about $1000 budget without the install. I'm going to try and do most of it myself. I want to replace all the speakers and not just the front ones so i get good sound at the rear also. Which is why i was considering the Alpine PDX-5 amp since it can run all 4 channels plus 2 subs since it is rated for 300W power output on single channel at 2ohms.

I figure I would have to buy these..
1. 4 x 2-way component speakers to replace all the speakers in my car.
2. 5 channel amplifier that can support 2 subwoofers
3. 2 x SWS-8 subs to replace existing ones.

Any other cost i'm missing.

Also the key is I want to do this with minimal rewiring. Since there are already factory wiring going to most of the speakers [sub will be rewire as it will go to amp directly instead of tapping it from front channel], I want to try and use most of it which is why I was curious about the wiring harness from Technic.

The speakers you suggested seems awesome but might be out of my price range especially if I'm relpacing all 4. Any other suggestions??

Thanks,
oldnamer

[VP Electricity]

I have a really strong suggestion - give up on the rears.

You can put the most expensive 4" comps in the world back there, on 250WPC, and they will still sound like ass. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE REAR SPEAKERS.

Our ears tilt forward. Stereo works from the front. Until you've gotten the best speakers in the universe in the front doors, every dollar you spend on the rear is a waste of your money.

I've challenged many forum members to take their fader 100% to the front and leave it there for a week, and drive around, and tell me what they notice.

Some notice better imaging. Some notice slightly less bass (-3dB with HiFi). But some immediately tell me they can't hear the difference at all. If you can't hear a difference, why spend money there?

Unless you are doing some kind of ambiance channel, with a L-R derived signal, or some processor, your rear speakers are just mucking up the stereo illusion from your front speakers. Get the best front speakers you can afford before diluting your budget on rears.

Other than that, I have no opinions...(that one is about 20 years old and has been a standby that entire time).

You may have underestimated how much we charge for install. If you were getting that uninstalled locally, it would run $1K with adapters and wire and such.

I would have sent you a PM but no trabajo...

[fdiprete]

I think a 6 channel amp is the way to go for the hifi setup - as there are 6 channels

I just installed a jl audio amp to power front/rear/seat subs.
I got it on amazon for $280.

Replacing the under seat "subs" with sws (in my case 2 ohm) is a must as the factory ones make more noise than music and will fold under power.

I also replaced the front tweets.

I used an audiocontrol eq for sound shaping to roll off frequencies that the stock speakers can not reproduce rather than replacing all the speakers. There are 2 religions around using processing vs replacing everything. Both have their benefits (neither is wrong in my opinion) and ultimately it's a trade off between budget and quality.

My setup is posted here.
skip to the last page in this link to skip over the thread jack:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164359

[oldnamer]

Thanks for your recommendation. If I were to replace only the fronts, subs and amp, is there a second option of speakers, that are priced lower than dotech ovation 4?? I understand there will be difference in quality but i do want to stick to my budget as much as possible...

fdiprete, I considered the JL6600 as it has 6 channels but it provides only 75W per channel right?? How does it handle the SWS sub that needs 100W and has 300W max ??

I dont want to have 2 amps. I need to get this done with one amp.

Which amp?? JL G6600 or Alpine PDX-5. I feel JL is very big. Also with pdx-5 putting out 300W in 1 channel with 4 ohms, cant i connect 2 x 4 ohm SWS in parallel and achieve 150W each???

I want to tap into the factory harness so I can replace the system back when i sell the car. Is there a harness that i can buy to achieve this. I have few thoughts abt this as well.

1. I found some wiring diagram that indicates that HU is sending LF,LR,RF,RR, etc. So will i loose the ability to fade L/R and F/B when i install my own amp..??
2. Would i then use a rca to speaker cable all the way from HU or should i pull one of the channels and use it as input to my amp??
3. Does amp usually take only 1 pair of wire as input???

Thanks,
oldnamer

[Technic]

Originally Posted by mvvinod2k

Hi all,
I've read pages and pages about audio upgrade to E90/91. Finally i think i have a rough idea of what to expect/do. I would like some advice from experts in this area. I understand 2007's are called E91, correct me if i'm wrong.


1. BSW kit improves the SQ only marginally from stock especially for hifi. So i may not want to spend $600 and get only minor improvement.
2. Best way to achive SQ is to replace Amp [for sure], then speakers if it budget allows for it. I think I'll replace all or nothing.
3. I can spend $1000 - $1500 including install. And i intend to buy each component as cheap as possible even on craigslist.

Some questions I may need help on:
1. Technic was in the process of making a harness that allows to tap into stock connector and no additional wiring necessary. Any info on this???

- Harness is scheduled to be available for sale within two-three weeks.

2. Will Alpine PDX-5 run all the speaker and 2 SWS-8 subs if i end up getting the subs??

Yes, but the SWS-8 will be in mono. Some people say that they don't notice the difference between the SWS-8 in stereo and mono, but in my opinion they should be in stereo as they also have midbass duty, so I wired mine in stereo. Your mileage will vary...

3. Now that 2 ohm SWS-8 are available, would it be wise to use a 4 channel amp for speakers and power the subs with factory amp??

No, the HiFi amp just cannot get the best of the SWS-8 as the OEM amp woofer output channels are not powerful enough (just 40W peak) and the SWS-8 are not that sensitive anyways. So it is a double choke...

4. What are the best replacement speakers and tweeter that i can use.. Need to be priced reasonably and sound good.

Without a specific speaker budget we can recommend from a MB Quart RUA213 at $128 a set up to custom pods with Focal Utopias mounted behind gold grilles.

5. If i can use factory amp for SWS, what 4 channel amp is recommended??

VP Electricity always recommend a Zapco DC360.4 for a 4-channel and I concur, if your budget allows. DSP and amp in one package, and a great DSP and amp they are.

Now, I partial to 6-channel amps with either built-in or separate processor just to replace the whole OEM amp. But that most probably will exceed you budget.

6. Are crossovers needed to filter our and send right frequency to right speakers or will digital amp do that??

Yes, both your component set and the amp will have crossovers that will handle your filter needs. A processor will go beyond that.

I dont need theatrical sound in my car, but i hate the sound right now. I think mainly highs are missing and some mid's are horrible, bass not so bad..

I've heard Bose systems in Audi and Infinity. Honestly if my SQ sounds as good as that, that's all i need.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
V

I would say...

- Zapco DC360.4
- SWS-8 at 2 ohms
- Rainbow SLC 210.25 NG
- keep OEM amp and rear OEM speakers

That should be ~$1200 or less in equipment and it should be great once you tune it.

[mathu.bala]

Originally Posted by mvvinod2k

fdiprete, I considered the JL6600 as it has 6 channels but it provides only 75W per channel right?? How does it handle the SWS sub that needs 100W and has 300W max ??

I

I believe it's 110W at 2ohm 14.5V power. I have M6450 same spec but marine version. I'm planning my diy next week. I'll take some photos while at it.

My plan with M6450 with Technic's harness
SWS 2ohms = 2 X 110W
RUA 213 for front at 4 ohm = 2 X 45W
OEM rear = 2 X 15W

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

I have a really strong suggestion - give up on the rears.

You can put the most expensive 4" comps in the world back there, on 250WPC, and they will still sound like ass. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE REAR SPEAKERS.

Our ears tilt forward. Stereo works from the front. Until you've gotten the best speakers in the universe in the front doors, every dollar you spend on the rear is a waste of your money.

I've challenged many forum members to take their fader 100% to the front and leave it there for a week, and drive around, and tell me what they notice.

Some notice better imaging. Some notice slightly less bass (-3dB with HiFi). But some immediately tell me they can't hear the difference at all. If you can't hear a difference, why spend money there?

Unless you are doing some kind of ambiance channel, with a L-R derived signal, or some processor, your rear speakers are just mucking up the stereo illusion from your front speakers. Get the best front speakers you can afford before diluting your budget on rears.

Other than that, I have no opinions...(that one is about 20 years old and has been a standby that entire time).

You may have underestimated how much we charge for install. If you were getting that uninstalled locally, it would run $1K with adapters and wire and such.

I would have sent you a PM but no trabajo...

I definitely agree on leaving the rears stock. The only problem I'm having with that scenario right now is that the rears are so much more efficient than my front speakers I have to set the fader all the way to the front to get it to sound the way I want. But I definitely would spend significant money on the rears. If you really have the itch to change them, just hook up a cheap set of coaxials to the OEM amp and be done with it.

[oldnamer]

OK. So leaving the rear ones with stock, I have the following so far..

1. Will new amp run the stock rear speakers?? Will it no blow them out since stock rms is rated so low??
2. Decided on earthquake SWS and Alpine PDX-5 [Technic, I'm ok with mono on the subs. I want a sub that can power it all. With 4 channel amp with dsp, I may need a new amp if i fell bass is too bad]
3. The difference between rainbow and morel seems to be only $130. So i can shell that money out and get morels.
4. Technic, can you let me know once the hardness is ready. WIth the harness, I can use all existing factory wiring for new speakers and tap into the harness at the rear and connect it to the amp right ??

Finally, Should I first try to run stock speakers&subs with new amp to see if I'm happy with the sound??? Again my concern is will I blow the speakers due to low rms.

[fdiprete]

Originally Posted by mvvinod2k

T
fdiprete, I considered the JL6600 as it has 6 channels but it provides only 75W per channel right?? How does it handle the SWS sub that needs 100W and has 300W max ??

I dont want to have 2 amps. I need to get this done with one amp.

Which amp?? JL G6600 or Alpine PDX-5. I feel JL is very big. Also with pdx-5 putting out 300W in 1 channel with 4 ohms, cant i connect 2 x 4 ohm SWS in parallel and achieve 150W each???

I am using the JL G6600 which is 100W into 2 ohms. (75W into 4 ohms) I have the 2 ohm version of the sws subs and I am still running the factory speakers. For me 100W is plenty of power.

[VP Electricity]

Don't forget the Arc 5080...

[ctuna]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368847

[ctuna]

fdiprete did you need the eq processor?
Or do you think you could have gotten away with
just the jl amp

[VP Electricity]

If he has a 2006, and he didn't have Logic 7, he had a flat full-range preamp signal to deal with.

[ctuna]

He went from a sound processor with a 4 channel and 2 channel amp to the 6 channel amp . It looks like he left in the sound processor and took out the two amps. The signal should be the same out of the Head unit (HiFi sys) for 2006 to 2009 when the change was made correct?

[oldnamer]

Thanks. I love the new JL XD600/6 especially because of its small form factor but it seems to be really pricey for me right now. I can spend around $300 for a amp.

I think I've pretty much made my config. Here it is. Any suggestions would be welcome.

ALSO IF ANYONE KNOWS A PLACE TO BUY THESE CHEAP, PLEASE TELL ME.

1. Not getting a eq as signal from head unit is flat.
2. Mostly PDX-5 amp. If JL XD6600/6 becomes cheap then maybe that.
3. 2 x SWS-8 subs
4. 2 x Morel Dotech Ovation 4"
5. Hopefully wiring harness from Technic.

Thanks,
oldnamer