Upgrade Option

vsehraw · 05-11-2010, 06:09 PM

Will JBL GTO804 (http://www.jbl.com/EN-US/Products/Pa...=1&tsT=0&ovT=1) be a PnP replacement for the base factory sub woofers on my E92 MY2010 335i ?

I was planning on replacing my speakers, subs under the seats and getting an amp:

If possible the following combination, I am looking for all PnP system and keeping as much OEM as possible:

JBL GTO804
XD 600/6
Logic 7 Tweeters
Speakers (JBL, Infinity or Kappa....Any recommendations)

Please advice if this is a good route and will it meet my needs of minimal invasive surgery of my car.

kaigoss69 · 05-11-2010, 07:15 PM

Yes, you only need the correct spacer and raise the entire seat by about 2".

If the above is not an option for you, search for Earthquake SWS-8.

VP Electricity · 05-11-2010, 08:18 PM

For minimal mod, you want the EQ SWS-8.

If you have a MY 2010, you need EITHER to figure out how to recode the HU to ":HiFi" mode, or you need to use a DSP processor or DSP-enabled amp to reverse the OEM processing in the base audio system. (This has been covered before).

You will want to get the tweeter sail parts if you don't already have them.

I would suggest something that sounds good in the front doors, like the Rainbow Dream Line 210.25. You need something *shallow* in the E92.

vsehraw · 05-12-2010, 12:35 AM

I do have MY2010 with Navi.

I think I will go with the SWS-8 for my subs.

Can you recommend any amp which can do the processing or will it be better to get the XD 600/6 (Small size allows to use space which is set for of L7 Amp) and getting the tuning done.

My goal is to do the upgrade in steps and was wondering, which would give the best and the biggest bang for the buck...getting speakers like Morels with OEM tweeters or an amp ?

vsehraw · 05-17-2010, 03:58 PM

bump

Technic · 05-17-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsehraw

I do have MY2010 with Navi.

I think I will go with the SWS-8 for my subs.

Can you recommend any amp which can do the processing or will it be better to get the XD 600/6 (Small size allows to use space which is set for of L7 Amp) and getting the tuning done.

My goal is to do the upgrade in steps and was wondering, which would give the best and the biggest bang for the buck...getting speakers like Morels with OEM tweeters or an amp ?

For the 2010-on Stereo system (6-speakers) I would say that a processor is a must if you can afford it. Once you decide to add a processor then you need to determine how you are going to implement that processor, either automatic or manually.

Zapco has the DC Reference Series of amps with a built-in DSP-6 processor, so you will be getting two upgrades in one chassis. However, you will need to manually de-EQ the iDrive signal at the same time that you will be tuning your system. You can do it by ear or you can do it by RTA.

You could get a Cleansweep before the Zapco and let it de-EQ the OEM signal automatically and then use the DSP-6 to tune the system with better control without the need of an RTA, as you will be starting from a flat signal.

You can get either a RF 3SIXTY.2, a bit one.1, a PXE-H660 or the new MS-8 processor with the XD600/6 for example and let it de-EQ you signal automatically and then you can manually implement your own tuning. In the case of the PXE-H660 and the MS-8 they can go further and even tune the system for you. And in the case of the MS-8 it also has 8-channels of amplification (30W RMS x 8) built in, so you can add a separate 2-channel 150W RMS amp only for the SWS-8 and drive the other speakers with the MS-8.

So you have plenty of options, depending on your budget.

vsehraw · 05-18-2010, 11:50 AM

I am not interested in running a 2 Amp configuration as money is definitely a consideration.

Since MS-8 is pretty expensive, is it possible to improve my sound quality by only upgrading to the MS-8 and keeping everything else stock and also not get an Amp ? How much better is the MS-8 as compared to the Alpine solution ?

If it is worthwhile to go this route, then down the road I will do the upgrade in the following order:

Speakers
SWS-8

Technic · 05-18-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsehraw

I am not interested in running a 2 Amp configuration as money is definitely a consideration.

Since MS-8 is pretty expensive, is it possible to improve my sound quality by only upgrading to the MS-8 and keeping everything else stock and also not get an Amp ? How much better is the MS-8 as compared to the Alpine solution ?

If it is worthwhile to go this route, then down the road I will do the upgrade in the following order:

Speakers
SWS-8

Other than some customers outside the USA, no customer has experienced an MS-8 here so there are no point of reference to compare the MS-8 to the other processors. It will be available for US sale next month so by July there should be plenty of detailed reviews in several forums like this. In paper the MS-8 looks impressive, though.

What's your budget?

kaigoss69 · 05-18-2010, 02:13 PM

You cannot make the OEM speakers sound much better with a $800 processor. If you are on a budget, first priority should be new front speakers, new underseat woofers, and an amp. You can get a flat signal by having your head unit recoded by autologic. You will fin all sorts of good info but you need to do some searchin'...

vsehraw · 05-18-2010, 02:56 PM

Well my budget is $1200 for all the gear...if the MS-8 is not gonna make a big difference without upgrading my speakers....should I just upgrade all 6 speakers and get the SWS-8 ?

Can you please provide the best setup possible which will fit my budget and keep the look of the car as stock as possible.

VP Electricity · 05-18-2010, 05:48 PM

Depends... if you're on a tight budget, you don't want to be first with an MS-8, since as you say it's not a cheap experiment.

We get some in soon...

vsehraw · 05-19-2010, 10:40 AM

OK, I guess I can start with the speakers first....

Can you recommend a PnP setup to replace the 6 speaker setup in MY2010, is there something from JBL which might work as I get a significant rebate from them ?

VP Electricity · 05-19-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsehraw

OK, I guess I can start with the speakers first....

Can you recommend a PnP setup to replace the 6 speaker setup in MY2010, is there something from JBL which might work as I get a significant rebate from them ?

Ho ho, no. No one has any 6-speaker PnP upgrades. Anything decent you get needs amplification.

Look, if you're interested in the *stated* capability of using an MS-8 on factory speakers, what I'd do is wait and see how well people think it works. I wouldn't get new speakers while you're waiting.

But if you wanted an MS-8 and you wanted to use the internal amp, we would do an MS-8, Rainbow 210.20 in front with adapter rings, EQ SWS-8 for underseat, and a 240W sub amp for $1400.

But we wouldn't give you the Musicar Performance Guarantee, because we have no idea how it will sound.

If you want a Zapco DC-based DSP amp system, we would be far more confident in the outcome, and it would run $1250 for all gear from us.

vsehraw · 05-19-2010, 08:24 PM

What about the Alpine option instead of the MS-8, with XD600/6, and the speakers ?

Also, you mentioned only the front speakers, should I not replace the rear speakers ?

kaigoss69 · 05-19-2010, 09:25 PM

Before going any further, you first have to ask yourself the fundamental question: Are you going to do this all yourself or will you hand it over to a professional???

vsehraw · 05-19-2010, 11:05 PM

My friend will be installing it, I can spend 1-1.2K on equipment.

vsehraw · 05-21-2010, 10:56 AM

Guys can you please help with shopping list for speakers please....after reading all the comments I have the following questions:

1) If I get a Zapco Amp how many channels do I need and will it fit in the Logic7 amps empty space ?

2) Is it cheaper to get the Factory system recoded to HiFi mode than buying a DSP ? Also, are the effects similar ?

3) If I do not get the DSP or get the recoding done will it be not worth doing an upgrade with just an Amp and Speakers?

4) Which Speakers would you recommend for the 2 Front, 2 Rear and 2 In the Shelf ?

5) Should I get the 2 sail tweeters if I get the XD600/6 ?

I know those are a lot of questions, but I am very close to making the decision and would really appreciate if these questions could be answered.

Thanks in advance.

kaigoss69 · 05-21-2010, 12:34 PM

1. You can get a 6 channel Zapco but it will not fit behind any panels

2. Recoding is around $100, if you can find a shop that can do it. Then your HU will put out a flat, noise-free balanced signal. The Zapco amps allow some basic processing, but nothing close to what a full-fledged processor could do.

3. Probably not worth it but if you can get the recoding done for $100, it's a moot point.

4. Front: Focal KP-100, Morel Hybrid Ovation, Rainbow. MB-Quart RUA-213 if you're on a budget. Stock or some cheap coaxes. See list here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673.

5. Regardless of amp, you will need them if you want to use component speakers.

kaigoss69 · 05-21-2010, 12:53 PM

Knowing that a good DSP and auto-tuning can overcome the weaknesses of mediocre speakers (and amps), I would do the following:

MS-8 processor - $800
MB Quart RUA-213 in front doors - $140
EQ SWS-8 under seats (2 Ohm) - $250
Some cheap coaxes in rear deck - $50
4-ch amp 100W x 4 - $200

Run the front speakers as an active 3-way. Tweeters off of MS-8 internal amp, mids off of the the front 2 amp channels, SWS-8 off of the rear amp channels, rear deck coaxes off of MS-8 internal amp. Disconnect rear door speakers.

I think this is the better approach than using high-quality speakers and amps, without DSP, or even with a DSP, but without the capability/experience to tune everything correctly. The MS-8 (reportedly) will tune your system like a pro had done it, even with mediocre speakers (not saying the RUA-213 are mediocre, people have actually had only positive things to say about them).

Lee Rambler · 05-22-2010, 08:49 AM

note that your L7 amp needs to remain unless you recode to hifi or get a modridge da1000/motuslab most bus interface and audison bitone. otherwise you have nothing to give you signal into your ms8/alpine pxah660.

I'll 2nd the rua213's for your budget, assuming you can still find some. might be worth trying the L7 woofers before replacing them, I've been pretty surprised by what they do with good amplification. especially if considering a true subwoofer

vsehraw · 05-22-2010, 12:05 PM

Thanks for all the feedback....

I have the base system so there is no Amp in the car. If i get an Amp with the PXE or MS-8 do I need to get the Modbridge ?

Another advice I got was:

Stock HU
JL Cleansweep or Audison Bit 1
Focal 100 KRS
Audio System 8" Drop in instead of SWS-8
Alpine PDX5

VP Electricity · 05-22-2010, 03:04 PM

There are an unlimited number of permutations of what could work.

Your budget is the main factor, next is who's installing it and what it costs and what they're capable of.

We ask our customers about what they've heard and liked or displiked, what they've owned, what they listen to, and their budget.

We tend to carry speakers we like... but not everyone likes what we like.

05-11-2010, 06:09 PM	#1
vsehraw Private 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: Free Rider Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Upgrade Option Will JBL GTO804 (http://www.jbl.com/EN-US/Products/Pa...=1&tsT=0&ovT=1) be a PnP replacement for the base factory sub woofers on my E92 MY2010 335i ? I was planning on replacing my speakers, subs under the seats and getting an amp: If possible the following combination, I am looking for all PnP system and keeping as much OEM as possible: JBL GTO804 XD 600/6 Logic 7 Tweeters Speakers (JBL, Infinity or Kappa....Any recommendations) Please advice if this is a good route and will it meet my needs of minimal invasive surgery of my car. Last edited by vsehraw; 05-11-2010 at 06:46 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

05-11-2010, 07:15 PM	#2
kaigoss69 Brigadier General 301 Rep 3,969 Posts Drives: '08 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: JAX iTrader: (6)	Yes, you only need the correct spacer and raise the entire seat by about 2". If the above is not an option for you, search for Earthquake SWS-8.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-11-2010, 08:18 PM	#3
VP Electricity Brigadier General 294 Rep 3,201 Posts Drives: F34 xDrive Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: portland oregon iTrader: (3)	For minimal mod, you want the EQ SWS-8. If you have a MY 2010, you need EITHER to figure out how to recode the HU to ":HiFi" mode, or you need to use a DSP processor or DSP-enabled amp to reverse the OEM processing in the base audio system. (This has been covered before). You will want to get the tweeter sail parts if you don't already have them. I would suggest something that sounds good in the front doors, like the Rainbow Dream Line 210.25. You need something shallow in the E92.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-12-2010, 12:35 AM	#4
vsehraw Private 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: Free Rider Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	I do have MY2010 with Navi. I think I will go with the SWS-8 for my subs. Can you recommend any amp which can do the processing or will it be better to get the XD 600/6 (Small size allows to use space which is set for of L7 Amp) and getting the tuning done. My goal is to do the upgrade in steps and was wondering, which would give the best and the biggest bang for the buck...getting speakers like Morels with OEM tweeters or an amp ? Last edited by vsehraw; 05-12-2010 at 01:17 AM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-17-2010, 03:58 PM	#5
vsehraw Private 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: Free Rider Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	bump
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-18-2010, 11:50 AM	#7
vsehraw Private 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: Free Rider Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	I am not interested in running a 2 Amp configuration as money is definitely a consideration. Since MS-8 is pretty expensive, is it possible to improve my sound quality by only upgrading to the MS-8 and keeping everything else stock and also not get an Amp ? How much better is the MS-8 as compared to the Alpine solution ? If it is worthwhile to go this route, then down the road I will do the upgrade in the following order: Speakers SWS-8
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-18-2010, 02:13 PM	#9
kaigoss69 Brigadier General 301 Rep 3,969 Posts Drives: '08 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: JAX iTrader: (6)	You cannot make the OEM speakers sound much better with a $800 processor. If you are on a budget, first priority should be new front speakers, new underseat woofers, and an amp. You can get a flat signal by having your head unit recoded by autologic. You will fin all sorts of good info but you need to do some searchin'...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-18-2010, 02:56 PM	#10
vsehraw Private 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: Free Rider Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Well my budget is $1200 for all the gear...if the MS-8 is not gonna make a big difference without upgrading my speakers....should I just upgrade all 6 speakers and get the SWS-8 ? Can you please provide the best setup possible which will fit my budget and keep the look of the car as stock as possible.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-18-2010, 05:48 PM	#11
VP Electricity Brigadier General 294 Rep 3,201 Posts Drives: F34 xDrive Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: portland oregon iTrader: (3)	Depends... if you're on a tight budget, you don't want to be first with an MS-8, since as you say it's not a cheap experiment. We get some in soon...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-19-2010, 10:40 AM	#12
vsehraw Private 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: Free Rider Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	OK, I guess I can start with the speakers first.... Can you recommend a PnP setup to replace the 6 speaker setup in MY2010, is there something from JBL which might work as I get a significant rebate from them ?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-19-2010, 08:24 PM	#14
vsehraw Private 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: Free Rider Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	What about the Alpine option instead of the MS-8, with XD600/6, and the speakers ? Also, you mentioned only the front speakers, should I not replace the rear speakers ?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-19-2010, 09:25 PM	#15
kaigoss69 Brigadier General 301 Rep 3,969 Posts Drives: '08 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: JAX iTrader: (6)	Before going any further, you first have to ask yourself the fundamental question: Are you going to do this all yourself or will you hand it over to a professional???
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-19-2010, 11:05 PM	#16
vsehraw Private 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: Free Rider Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	My friend will be installing it, I can spend 1-1.2K on equipment.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2010, 10:56 AM	#17
vsehraw Private 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: Free Rider Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Guys can you please help with shopping list for speakers please....after reading all the comments I have the following questions: 1) If I get a Zapco Amp how many channels do I need and will it fit in the Logic7 amps empty space ? 2) Is it cheaper to get the Factory system recoded to HiFi mode than buying a DSP ? Also, are the effects similar ? 3) If I do not get the DSP or get the recoding done will it be not worth doing an upgrade with just an Amp and Speakers? 4) Which Speakers would you recommend for the 2 Front, 2 Rear and 2 In the Shelf ? 5) Should I get the 2 sail tweeters if I get the XD600/6 ? I know those are a lot of questions, but I am very close to making the decision and would really appreciate if these questions could be answered. Thanks in advance.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2010, 12:34 PM	#18
kaigoss69 Brigadier General 301 Rep 3,969 Posts Drives: '08 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: JAX iTrader: (6)	1. You can get a 6 channel Zapco but it will not fit behind any panels 2. Recoding is around $100, if you can find a shop that can do it. Then your HU will put out a flat, noise-free balanced signal. The Zapco amps allow some basic processing, but nothing close to what a full-fledged processor could do. 3. Probably not worth it but if you can get the recoding done for $100, it's a moot point. 4. Front: Focal KP-100, Morel Hybrid Ovation, Rainbow. MB-Quart RUA-213 if you're on a budget. Stock or some cheap coaxes. See list here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673. 5. Regardless of amp, you will need them if you want to use component speakers.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2010, 12:53 PM	#19
kaigoss69 Brigadier General 301 Rep 3,969 Posts Drives: '08 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: JAX iTrader: (6)	Knowing that a good DSP and auto-tuning can overcome the weaknesses of mediocre speakers (and amps), I would do the following: MS-8 processor - $800 MB Quart RUA-213 in front doors - $140 EQ SWS-8 under seats (2 Ohm) - $250 Some cheap coaxes in rear deck - $50 4-ch amp 100W x 4 - $200 Run the front speakers as an active 3-way. Tweeters off of MS-8 internal amp, mids off of the the front 2 amp channels, SWS-8 off of the rear amp channels, rear deck coaxes off of MS-8 internal amp. Disconnect rear door speakers. I think this is the better approach than using high-quality speakers and amps, without DSP, or even with a DSP, but without the capability/experience to tune everything correctly. The MS-8 (reportedly) will tune your system like a pro had done it, even with mediocre speakers (not saying the RUA-213 are mediocre, people have actually had only positive things to say about them). Last edited by kaigoss69; 05-21-2010 at 01:04 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-22-2010, 08:49 AM	#20
Lee Rambler Captain 17 Rep 605 Posts Drives: 07 e92 335 6mt, 04 e53 x5 4.4 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: PA iTrader: (0)	note that your L7 amp needs to remain unless you recode to hifi or get a modridge da1000/motuslab most bus interface and audison bitone. otherwise you have nothing to give you signal into your ms8/alpine pxah660. I'll 2nd the rua213's for your budget, assuming you can still find some. might be worth trying the L7 woofers before replacing them, I've been pretty surprised by what they do with good amplification. especially if considering a true subwoofer
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-22-2010, 12:05 PM	#21
vsehraw Private 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: Free Rider Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Thanks for all the feedback.... I have the base system so there is no Amp in the car. If i get an Amp with the PXE or MS-8 do I need to get the Modbridge ? Another advice I got was: Stock HU JL Cleansweep or Audison Bit 1 Focal 100 KRS Audio System 8" Drop in instead of SWS-8 Alpine PDX5
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-22-2010, 03:04 PM	#22
VP Electricity Brigadier General 294 Rep 3,201 Posts Drives: F34 xDrive Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: portland oregon iTrader: (3)	There are an unlimited number of permutations of what could work. Your budget is the main factor, next is who's installing it and what it costs and what they're capable of. We ask our customers about what they've heard and liked or displiked, what they've owned, what they listen to, and their budget. We tend to carry speakers we like... but not everyone likes what we like.
	Appreciate 0 Quote