[bmw6953]

Has any one used Redline engine oil? If so what are your expiriences with it? I am thinking about switching over. Its about $2-$3 more per quart then stock bmw oil. Is it really worth the price? and is it better then stock bmw oil?

[mike3000fl]

my thoughts are that if you are gonna change oil every 3k then any correct weight synthetic should do.

if you are looking to continue the BMW long life 15K between oil changes then stick to the LL-01 and LL-04 marked synthetics or oem.

[742]

Originally Posted by bmw6953

Has any one used Redline engine oil? If so what are your expiriences with it? I am thinking about switching over. Its about $2-$3 more per quart then stock bmw oil. Is it really worth the price? and is it better then stock bmw oil?

I would look at it the other way -- BMW spec oil is worth $3 a quart more than non-approved oil.

It is not a matter of good and bad. I have two oils in my garage, one goes in the E90 and two recent production VWs [Castrol Syntec 0W-30]. The other goes into a 2002 and an MGB [Castrol Syntec 20W-50]. They are made by the same company and the bottles look similar; yet they are formulated for very different standards.

The standards are what matter, not the brand. For this application you need BMW LL01. Mobil 1, Castrol or something else -- whatever, as long as it is LL01. And Redline is not.

And I don't dislike Redline, in fact it is in the transmissions of my old cars. But it won't be in the oil sump of my E90.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by bmw6953

Has any one used Redline engine oil? If so what are your expiriences with it? I am thinking about switching over. Its about $2-$3 more per quart then stock bmw oil. Is it really worth the price? and is it better then stock bmw oil?

Probably fine. Redline just didn't spend the $$$ to obtain the LL01 rating from BMWAG. Some will say engine chemistry could be different but the reality is that LL01 oil is the same oil that has been used in many BMW engines for over 10 yrs and all have different chemistry's. In addtion LL01 oils are rarely spec'd ONLY as LL01 but also have other manufacturer approvals. That alone tells you that engine chemistry isn't that big of a deal.

Example is M1 ESP, 5w-30 which is BMW LL04, VW 507, and MB 229.51/229.31.

From what I understand Redline is more expensive because it contains more Group IV and/or V oils (PAO & Ester) unlike your off the shelf brands and would probably be a benefit for those who track or run their cars hard & plan on extended OCI. Motul and Amsoil are others in that category. In my opinion it's overkill for a daily driver.

Two of the best oils I can think of "off the shelf" retail are M1 0w-40 and Castrol 0w-30 which can be found at numerous auto parts stores nationwide. The folks at BITOG really like the Castrol 0w-30. Both are inexpensive and LL01.


My $.02

[Chriztofor]

I used Mobil 1 0-40 (BMW LL-01 approved) for 184,000 miles in my e46 and it still runs smooth. Also, I changed my oil in my e46 at 15k intervals and oil filter at 7500 mile intervals. Guess what oil I will be buying for my e90.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by bmw6953

Has any one used Redline engine oil? If so what are your expiriences with it? I am thinking about switching over. Its about $2-$3 more per quart then stock bmw oil. Is it really worth the price? and is it better then stock bmw oil?

Since you have a 325I, I'd go with the cheaper BMW oil.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Why would anyone not use a BMW LL-01 approved oil? What do you expect to gain from using an oil that is not BMW LL-01 approved?

Not to knock BMW oil approval, but, I've found that the motor oil companies change their formulars(Base Oil Chemistry) quite regularly, so BMW LL approval, only technically goes for the year they got the approval. BMW isn't actively testing each time there is a new formular, so don't put that much faith in that stuff.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

From what I understand Redline is more expensive because it contains more Group IV and/or V oils (PAO & Ester) unlike your off the shelf brands and would probably be a benefit for those who track or run their cars hard & plan on extended OCI. Motul and Amsoil are others in that category. In my opinion it's overkill for a daily driver.

If you look at the redline MSDS, its chemical nature is: "Mixture"

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...ils%20MSDS.pdf

So it is not a true group IV by definition, but its at least a group III.

A total tech guy sent me the following correspondance on base oils:

API Base OIL definitions
Group I
Group I base stocks contain less than 90 percent saturates and/or greater than .03 percent sulfur and have viscosity index greater than or equal to 80 and less than 120.

Group II
Group II base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90 percent saturates and less than or equal to .03 percent sulfur and have viscosity index greater than or equal to 80 and less than 120.

Group III
Group III base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90 percent saturates and less than or equal to .03 percent sulfur and have viscosity index greater than or equal to 120.

Group IV
Group IV base stocks are polyalphaolefins (PAO).

Group V
Group V base stocks include all other base stocks not included in Group I, II, III, IV

Comment- Group III and IV are considered synthetic fluid in North America and most of europe

Comment-Group I and II oils are not marketed as synthetic fluids. However they may be the major component of a "sythetic blend"

Comment-"sythetic Blends" are not defined by API but are defined here as containing an undefined portion of either group II or group IV (and sometimes group V)-all of which are synthetic fluids. Most reputable suppliers require 10% or more synthetic in the fluid in order to sell it as a synthetic blend.

Comment-Generally, groupe V fluids are thought to be synthetic. However naphthenic oils do not fall into API group I, II, III, or IV because their Viscosity Index is below 80, so they would fall into group V. Therefore API group V are not always synthetic fluids.

[Chriztofor]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Since you have a 325I, I'd go with the cheaper BMW oil.

You don't put in "cheaper" oil because someone has a 325i. They put in approved oil. If approved oil is cheaper then that's great. I would put in cheaper oil in a 7 series so long as it is approved.

[bmw6953]

All this info is great but has any one actually used is it?

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Chriztofor

You don't put in "cheaper" oil because someone has a 325i. They put in approved oil. If approved oil is cheaper then that's great. I would put in cheaper oil in a 7 series so long as it is approved.

The "cheaper" oil I was refering to in this case, is the OEM BMW approved oil.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Actually the BMW certification is for TWO years and any change in formulation must be re-certified to maintain the oil specification designation and approval.]

So 2 years + 2001(BMW LL01)= 2003?

According to the total rep I e-mailed he stated that they are not under any obligation to report BASE OIL changes, and so they don't. Its up to you to check for consistency by requesting a current MSDS from each company.

Originally Posted by TrackRat

The auto makers do not specify what base oil must be used because the base oil does not determine most of the important aspects of engine lubrication. The car makers specify the performance that an oil must deliver, some chemistry specifics, then they confirm the lubricant's performance in actual lab and engine testing before certifying an oil to a particular oil specification. The oils must be re-certified every two years.

For the 1,000th time, LL01, simply means compatable with BMW double vanos, in the year 2001! You still think that base oil does not significantly impact an oil's quality/durability/shear resistance. This forum worships BMW approved oils, when UOA's in non turbo engines, have show these oils to be average at best.

Originally Posted by TrackRat

BTW, the term "mixture" as used for MSDS sheets has nothing to do with what oil group per se an oil is from. It's merely a designation to indicate more than one chemical is present. As an example if the oil has additives in the base oil as all oils must have, then it would be a "mixture".http://www.toolingu.com/definition-8...0-mixture.html

If its group IV, it has to only state: CHEMICAL NATURE/BASE OILS: Polyalophins

[mike3000fl]

Originally Posted by bmw6953

All this info is great but has any one actually used is it?

bobistheoilguy search there

[AltecBX]

I use a quart of redline 5-30 to top off. I leave in trunk as that's the oil I use in my other cars. I let the dealer do the changes though.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Be VERY careful at the BITOG website as there is a ton of false and misleading info. posted there.

like? There is a huge section on UOA's, with tons of actual data for people to see, unlike this forum, which is unfortunatley dominated by approval worshipers.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Turkey-
You keep reading tea leaves trying to convince yourself that MSDS sheets tell you that one oil is better than another. We've been over this in several other threads where I explained that MSDS sheets are used for SAFETY purposes and have nothing to do with the chemistry or formulation of an oil per se. There is a difference between what a company must state and what they can state on an MSDS sheet. Obviously some companies do not want to divulge proprietary info. if they aren't required to. Thus "mixture" fills the MSDS requirements nicely.

WRONGO. MSDS is government required, everything else is just marketing. Just look at the many ways to claim synthethic on your labels, and you can clearly see the differences from country to country. Even the spec sheets are miss-leading estimates at best, and often times differ, when viewed on the MSDS.

Originally Posted by TrackRat

If car makers believed as you do that you need to use a specific oil stock then they would make it mandatory in their oil specifications, but they don't because the additive package is what determines most of the required lubrication properties.

At what cost to the consumer? Note that PAO based oils, typically cost more than their Group III "synthetic" counterparts.

Originally Posted by TrackRat

What the car makers care about is the oils performance in the engine. That is why they actually measure the oils performance and only certify oils that meet the oil performance specifications. It does not matter what oil base stock is used as long as the total formulation meets the oil performance requirements.

again go back and do some research about the difference between BMW LL98, LL01, and LL04. You might in the process find out what changed between these years.

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Obviously BMW has more expertise on this subject than anyone else and they require the use of an LL-01 oil in gas engines sold in the U.S. from 2006 onward. Everywhere else BMW requires LL-04 oil be used. The chemistry is different between the LL-01 and LL-04 and BMW states in writing that LL-04 is not acceptable for use in U.S. engines.

BMW stated that BMW/Castrol 5W 30 was the only LL01 approved oil for the E46 M3, when it first came out. Why then do they now insist on castrol 10W 60TWS for the same car? If they can make such HUGE mistakes, then why take what they say seriously?

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Below is a copy of a typical oil certification approval letter from BMW to an oil company whos product was tested and confirmed to meet specific BMW oil specifications. Note that it's good for two years and that oil sold by the company must be EXACTLY the same as the tested and approved formulation. Any change in the formulation must be re-submitted for testing.

again even if I go 2006+2, its still= 2008. Most oil makers changed their forumlas in 2009, due to drastically different, global economic conditions. Its up to the consumer to request the current spec sheet and MSDS, as people found out recently via UOA's on the TDI club forums, results can change dramatically in a year, even with "so-called" approved oils.

[Chriztofor]

Originally Posted by bmw6953

All this info is great but has any one actually used is it?

Wow, sorry for thread jacking. I can't believe no one has any real world experiences with redline?!

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Chriztofor

Wow, sorry for thread jacking. I can't believe no one has any real world experiences with redline?!

Again if the OP wants to use redline, as long as he's out of waranty, it should be ok. However considering he has a 325I, his engine isn't that tough on oil, so he can save his money and use the BMW LL01 approved oils, with no issues.

[Chriztofor]

Ye, but he us looking for " I used ut for x miles and no problems, smooth as silk". Or something like that

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Chriztofor

Ye, but he us looking for " I used ut for x miles and no problems, smooth as silk". Or something like that

Again, he should search BITOG. In here, its all BMW approval folks.

[Chriztofor]

Ok straight from BMW.

[Chriztofor]

and here http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx