[G35revup]

Has anyone dyno'd a stock 335i step yet?

[335i=:)]

Yes, it dynoed at 271WHP and I think 275 Wtorque......but they had a hard time dynoing it because it downshifts with WOT under 4k rpm.

The engineering specs say the AT has a 15% drivetrain loss and MT is 13%

[G35revup]

so you are losing about 20 ftlbs tq and around 4rwhp driving an auto. not bad.... considering I have 93 octane here in FL I might get the auto next year....

[Weedo]

Originally Posted by G35revup

so you are losing about 20 ftlbs tq and around 4rwhp driving an auto. not bad.... considering I have 93 octane here in FL I might get the auto next year....

Well, actually, read here for a comparison of one auto and two manuals on the same dyno, the same day:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38544

Auto stock: 271hp
Auto with Xede: 317hp

Manual stock: 280 for one, 287hp for the other
Manual with Xede: 330hp for one, 348hp for the other

So the hp "loss" was 9hp and 16hp when compared to the two manuals. After the Xede the manuals put down 13hp more and 31hp more.

[williamf]

Originally Posted by Weedo

Well, actually, read here for a comparison of one auto and two manuals on the same dyno, the same day:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38544

Auto stock: 271hp
Auto with Xede: 317hp

Manual stock: 280 for one, 287hp for the other
Manual with Xede: 330hp for one, 348hp for the other

So the hp "loss" was 9hp and 16hp when compared to the two manuals. After the Xede the manuals put down 13hp more and 31hp more.

Just "eyeballing" it, it seems like the difference between MT and AT is about 3% to 5%. Now that we have such great AT gear boxes, it seems like it is just a matter of preferance. Even though I have an AT, I still prefer the MT.

[Weedo]

Originally Posted by williamf

Just "eyeballing" it, it seems like the difference between MT and AT is about 3% to 5%. Now that we have such great AT gear boxes, it seems like it is just a matter of preferance. Even though I have an AT, I still prefer the MT.

There is still a definite advantage in power for the manual, especially with the Xede. But other than that, yes, preference... If you never plan to do any sort of track events and have a lot of stop and go, the Auto is nice. I had a 330i auto and loved it. But the fun the manual gives for not only every day driving, but spirited driving too is just something else! Either way, these cars are hard to beat!

[BMWnewbie1]

Originally Posted by Weedo

There is still a definite advantage in power for the manual, especially with the Xede. But other than that, yes, preference... If you never plan to do any sort of track events and have a lot of stop and go, the Auto is nice. I had a 330i auto and loved it. But the fun the manual gives for not only every day driving, but spirited driving too is just something else! Either way, these cars are hard to beat!

Bullcrap... you obviously didn't drive the auto with paddles. For both daily driving and spirited driving and on the track the paddles are way superior. More fun to drive, faster shifting without taking the hands of wheels beats them all.

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by BMWnewbie1

Bullcrap... you obviously didn't drive the auto with paddles. For both daily driving and spirited driving and on the track the paddles are way superior. More fun to drive, faster shifting without taking the hands of wheels beats them all.

Objectively, he is right, the WHP numbers being reported are higher with the manual.

However, at the track, the Step with paddles is closer to what F1 and other advanced technology racing teams use than a pure manual. Not in technology, but in practical execution. I'm convinced the difference in lap times between the 2 is far, far smaller than the difference in driver skill, and I would be very interested in seeing professional, expert, and novice road racer back-to-back lap times in each.

[herbz]

manual is faster than an automatic but you have to be a superior driver, with excellent footwork and an extremely short, slick shift. most people can pull better times around a track with AT since a computer is generally more consistent than a human being. but a good manual driver will smoke the computer any day of the week. plus its harder to launch an automatic at the proper RPM.

[dmeyer]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Objectively, he is right, the WHP numbers being reported are higher with the manual.

However, at the track, the Step with paddles is closer to what F1 and other advanced technology racing teams use than a pure manual. Not in technology, but in practical execution. I'm convinced the difference in lap times between the 2 is far, far smaller than the difference in driver skill, and I would be very interested in seeing professional, expert, and novice road racer back-to-back lap times in each.

I have never seen a step setup that will beat a skilled driver that knows how to properly heel-toe...335i included. I have yet to drive the much-lauded sequentials on the F430 tough.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by dmeyer

I have yet to drive the much-lauded sequentials on the F430 tough.

whoahaha.. they are considerably faster than traditional manuals in terms of shift speed, rev matching, etc,. Simply insane. Then again, they are real manual transmission (ie, no torque converter). Automatic transmissions (even a really good one like the Steptronic) does soak up a bit more power and doesn't seem to give the driver FULL control. But then again, you can stick it in D and and drive and never think about it again.

Shiv

[dmeyer]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

whoahaha.. they are considerably faster than traditional manuals in terms of shift speed, rev matching, etc,. Simply insane. Then again, they are real manual transmission (ie, no torque converter).
Shiv

I would hope so for $200k +

[Weedo]

Originally Posted by BMWnewbie1

Bullcrap... you obviously didn't drive the auto with paddles. For both daily driving and spirited driving and on the track the paddles are way superior. More fun to drive, faster shifting without taking the hands of wheels beats them all.

Gotta love how the "auto drivers" always go nuts over this one. Have you taken your car to the track? If so, how did you do? Don't get me wrong, the Step is a nice trans, again, I owned one. Head out to the track (no, not the 1/4 mile) and see how many of them are running automatic trans cars. One out of 50? Maybe, but not from what I've seen over the years. Heck, every car I drove at Bondurant was a manual. Why? Well, I'm sure you already REALLY know the answer...

Paddles are way superior on the track to a manual you say? Prove it. That's a total BS statement and you know it. More fun to drive than a manual? I know you haven't driven it at the track or even spirited driving around a nice little course because you're not leaving your hands on the wheel the entire time as you say. Sounds good in theory but you can't steer a sharp turn AND "not take your hands off the wheel". Go
out right now and try it...

And please, can the auto drivers not take such huge offense at every single auto/manual post??? Probably too much to ask as its the same over and over again, forum after forum.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by Weedo

Don't get me wrong, the Step is a nice trans, again, I owned one.

335i Step > any '06 or earlier step... You didnt own a 335i steptronic

They added new hydrolicly actuated clutches similar to those in DSG transmissions to lower shift times to 100ms(m3 smg is 125ms/75ms). They also vastly improved the touque converter to only have 2% more driveline loss than the manual. (15% and 13%). the 330i was not even close. Drive a 335i step, its a different beast.

Keep in mind, the lowest 0-60 number, reported from forum members, and magazines, is 4.8... and that number has been in the auto and the manual.

Obviously the manual is "faster" because of less driveline loss, but the quick shifts of the NEW steptronic cause them get very similar track numbers.

Not trying to start another manual versus auto fight, they both have the strong points...

[williamf]

I consider my self a good driver with a stick. However, there is no way that I could match the speed of the shifts and non-existant powerloss of this steptronic. I don't know who would win in a fair match a good MT driver vs. an AT driver. It would be very close. Probably no more than 1/10 of a second between the two. Of course there is more to driving an MT than just how quickly you can shift. For me it is the feeling of greater control. It's kind of like the difference in playing a video game in easy mode vs hard mode. If I can do it well in hard mode, then I have more satisfaction. However, the MT is completely impractical with an 8 month old in the back seat. Thus, I have an AT and am happy.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Till you start adding modifications to the vehicles, then you start to see a seperation in power between auto's and manual's.

I mean look at it now with just the Xede the power at the wheels:

AT: 317HP
MT: 330HP-348HP

Add a performance exhaust and how much more of a difference is there? Change the downpipes, etc.

They might be close to now, but thats not going to last long. Not wanting to start a MT vs AT fight again, its just facts.

[williamf]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Till you start adding modifications to the vehicles, then you start to see a seperation in power between auto's and manual's.

I mean look at it now with just the Xede the power at the wheels:

AT: 317HP
MT: 330HP-348HP

Add a performance exhaust and how much more of a difference is there? Change the downpipes, etc.

They might be close to now, but thats not going to last long. Not wanting to start a MT vs AT fight again, its just facts.

That's an interesting thought. As the numbers go up the raw difference increases, but the 2% of difference should stay the same. So I wonder at what point does the raw difference in power outway a normal MT drivers lack of skill. Or does the MT drivers skill also scale downward as power increases? I'm not sure the answer to those questions, but I think they are interested. Anybody up for an Industrial Pysch study?

[Ph3n0m73]

Originally Posted by williamf

Even though I have an AT, I still prefer the MT.

With me, almost the opposite.. I'm a MT guy at heart, and I have MT on my coupe, but after my test drive of the AT I was extremely impressed. As a matter of fact, I would've got the auto if I had another grand or so laying around when I ordered.

In any case, both trannies in this car kick ass.

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Till you start adding modifications to the vehicles, then you start to see a seperation in power between auto's and manual's.

I mean look at it now with just the Xede the power at the wheels:

AT: 317HP
MT: 330HP-348HP

Add a performance exhaust and how much more of a difference is there? Change the downpipes, etc.

They might be close to now, but thats not going to last long. Not wanting to start a MT vs AT fight again, its just facts.

What facts? Did you happen to notice that we only have one Step Dyno'ed so far and as admitted by Shiv, he couldn't get it to Dyno correctly? We also have info that the Step used different gas than the other 2. Did you also happen to notice that there was a bigger HP gap between MT1 and MT2 that same day than between Step and MT1. So far the numbers are kind of all over the place, but all have been impressive.

The only performance numbers I have seen so far are in the non-modified cars and a 4.8 0-60 was posted by a Stepronic 335i. Might the 6MT 335i's be faster than the Stepronic ones? Probably, but that is yet to be proven, and not on a dyno graph, on the track.

[Boost335]

Originally Posted by Ph3n0m73

With me, almost the opposite.. I'm a MT guy at heart, and I have MT on my coupe, but after my test drive of the AT I was extremely impressed. As a matter of fact, I would've got the auto if I had another grand or so laying around when I ordered.

In any case, both trannies in this car kick ass.

I am in the same boat... I got the MT, and now I wish I had gotten the AT, because I drove it, and everyone is right, it rocks.

If anyone is considered this as your first AT, give it a shot, you wont regret it, the 335i AT is kickass. I also agree with the posts that you cannot compare the 317hp number to the 348hp number... there are more things that just the transmission that can cause the tunability to differ.

There is a larger difference between the 2 MT cars tuned, than the difference between the lower MT car and the AT car....

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by radgator1

What facts? Did you happen to notice that we only have one Step Dyno'ed so far and as admitted by Shiv, he couldn't get it to Dyno correctly? We also have info that the Step used different gas than the other 2. Did you also happen to notice that there was a bigger HP gap between MT1 and MT2 that same day than between Step and MT1. So far the numbers are kind of all over the place, but all have been impressive.

The only performance numbers I have seen so far are in the non-modified cars and a 4.8 0-60 was posted by a Stepronic 335i. Might the 6MT 335i's be faster than the Stepronic ones? Probably, but that is yet to be proven, and not on a dyno graph, on the track.

Oh calm down princess, I'm not insulting you or any AT guys. When I went to BMW to test drive the car, they gave me an AT 335i. I was kinda disappointed at first but once I drove I was amazed by its quickness. Really impressed. I'm just a MT guy for life or until I live somewhere like NY where I have to stop every 30 seconds or so.

I realize that only one AT has been upgraded with the Xede and dyno'd. We can only go off that one until more are tested. However, its a proven fact that you lose more power in auto's than manuals. As the numbers get higher, technically the gap will widen.

[335i=:)]

Love my auto, at least twice as fast as my AT in 02 330xi, very little detectable delay.